In order to participate in the GunBroker Member forums, you must be logged in with your GunBroker.com account. Click the sign-in button at the top right of the forums page to get connected.
Muslims, Please clarify
n/a
Member Posts: 168,427 ✭
'Please, correct me if I'm wrong,
but I understand that most Imams and
clerics of Islam have declared
a holy jihad [Holy war] against the
infidels of the world and, that by
killing an infidel,
(which is a command to all Muslims)
they are assured of a place in heaven.
If that's the case, can you give me
the definition of an infidel?'
There was no disagreement with my
statements and, without hesitation,
he replied, 'Non-believers!'
I responded, 'So, let me make sure
I have this straight. All followers of
Allah have been commanded to kill
everyone who is not of your faith so
they can have a place in heaven.
Is that correct?'
Sage 1
but I understand that most Imams and
clerics of Islam have declared
a holy jihad [Holy war] against the
infidels of the world and, that by
killing an infidel,
(which is a command to all Muslims)
they are assured of a place in heaven.
If that's the case, can you give me
the definition of an infidel?'
There was no disagreement with my
statements and, without hesitation,
he replied, 'Non-believers!'
I responded, 'So, let me make sure
I have this straight. All followers of
Allah have been commanded to kill
everyone who is not of your faith so
they can have a place in heaven.
Is that correct?'
Sage 1
Comments
Too late to get any further into it tonight. I'm sure they'll be plenty of people that disagree with me though.
FWIW, I'm not endorsing Islam, just spreading what I've learned.
Are there any muslimes here?
Hairy, our resident atheist anti-semitic Jew Muslim, though Barzillia certainly seems to be drinking the kool-aid as of late.
....sounds of wind blowing....water dripping....and .....nope none here!
U forgot the crickets chirping and Owls hooting!![;)]
The religion of Islam recognizes Christianity as one of the "believers". We worship the same God. Their name for "God" is Allah.
Too late to get any further into it tonight. I'm sure they'll be plenty of people that disagree with me though.
FWIW, I'm not endorsing Islam, just spreading what I've learned.
based on how Muslims have treated Christians and Jews since their inception I'd have to throw a flag on your comments. I am certainly no expert, as I understand it the Koran orders Muslims to enslave Christians and Jews, tax them and or put them under the knife...that indicates to me the they don't qualify as "believers".
Actually Jews and Christians are considered to be "People of the Book", not believers. Even though muslims claim Abraham as the father of the arab people, Allah is NOT the same god of Judaism and Christianilty. Muslims claim that Allah is the same god, but the word Allah was also the name of the ancient pagan moon god of the bedouin tribes of Arabia. The Ka'ba in Mecca is the holiest site in Islam, but it was built by pagans before Islam was founded.
You're correct, "people of the book". I took that to be a believer. Actually, they believe Adam built the Kaba and that Muhamad had it rebuilt.
I don't think so
Infidel
These notions of infidelity by Christians and Muslims are assumed to have formed the cultural context under which the Crusades and various holy wars occurred.
ChristianChristians have historically referred to people outside their religious group as infidels, signifying a distinction between somebody who for whatever reason is ignorant of the Christian message and somebody who has actively rejected the promise of salvation in the life and teaching of Jesus. It only became a well established notion in English sometime in the early sixteenth century, when Jews or "Mohammedans," were described as active opponents to Christianity, and as such infidel was seen as term of contempt. In Catholic doctrine, an infidel is one who does not believe in the doctrine at all and is thus distinct from a heretic, who is one seen as having fallen astray from true doctrine, i.e. by denying the divinity of Jesus. Similarly, the ecclesiastical term was also used by the Methodist Church, in reference to those "without faith."
In later usage the term's definition was widened to include other forms of non-belief as well, such as:
Deist - believes in a god which fulfills the definition of a "prime mover" but does not act beyond this.
Atheist - does not believe that gods exist.
Sceptic - believes claims only when there is sufficient evidence for the proposition.
Agnostic - does not claim to know whether or not gods exist.
Christians generally now avoid using the term infidel.[10] The current preference is for the terms non-Christians and non-believers (persons without religious affiliations or beliefs), reflecting the commitment of mainstream Christian denominations to engage in dialog with persons of other faiths.[11]
IslamicThe Arabic word * (literally the one who "covers", usually translated as "disbeliever"[citation needed] ) is the Muslim term commonly translated into English as infidel.[12][13] In the Islamic doctrinal sense, the term refers to a person who does not recognize the one God (Allah) - atheists and polytheists - and not to religions such as Christianity, Judaism - who are seen as "People of the Book (Ahl-e-kitab)".[10][14][15]
*, like infidel, has also come to be regarded as offensive,[16] thus some Muslim scholars discourage its use due to the Quran's command to use kind words.[17] It is even a punishable offense to use this term against a Jew or a Christian, under Islamic law.[16] Muslims today however do tend to use the term indiscriminately in reference to all non-Muslims.[10]
Are there any muslimes here?
[:D] thought the same thing...do we?
quote:Originally posted by guntech59
....sounds of wind blowing....water dripping....and .....nope none here!
U forgot the crickets chirping and Owls hooting!![;)]
Meh, you got the idea![:D]
quote:Originally posted by nemesisenforcer
quote:Originally posted by txlawdog
Are there any muslimes here?
Hairy, our resident atheist anti-semitic Jew Muslim, though Barzillia certainly seems to be drinking the kool-aid as of late.
hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe....man, you do not have a clue !
The Koran, and the Hadith, and subsequently teachers therof, divide the world into dar' al Islam, and dar' al harb.
The world in subjection to the will of Allah, and the world at war with the will of Allah.
Right now, most if not all of the world is dar' al harb. There is a certain set of expectations, and laws, that Muslims are taught that are appropriate for this time in history. Right now, certain doctrines are appropriate that protect individual Muslims from a hostile world, and doctrines that allow for the coexistence of Islam and for the conversion of non-believers to Islam, but all within certain limits.
Coexistence and respect with the other two peoples of the Book are appropriate now, but again, within certain boundaries. Muslims believe that the Book has been corrupted, and so true Christians, especially, are defined as those who follow the right teachings of the Book, in what would be it's uncorrupted state and not in conflict with the Koran.
Therefore, those Christians are deluded and in error who claim Divinity for Jesus, deluded in His death and resurrection, and in rank Satanic heresy when they commit shirk, attributing co-workers to Allah. Shirk is especially distasteful to Muslims, and is a sin commanded to be worthy of death and eternity in hell. Jews are in error because they will not recognize the office of Prophet to Mohammed, and are in for the same penalty.
Right now, during conditions of dar' al harb, observant Muslims are encouraged towards the silent jihad, the intellectual struggle, the struggle of daily life to earn their own reward and work towards making the coming of the Mahdi possible, and to bring about dar' al Islam. The caliphate would be an intermediate state. Right now, tolerance of peoples of the Book is commanded as they are acting out of ignorance, and not willful disobedience. Right now, in Muslim countries, they would be allowed the status of Dhimmi, not molested but circumscribed, and taxed.
When the Mahdi is revealed, all bets would be off and all non-believers will be destroyed, end of story, and Dar' al Islam will reign forever.
During the time of dar' al harb, and in between the time until dar' al Islam, Muslims differ on what to do, how far to go, what is unacceptable to continue, and who, how, what, and when the Mahdi is and will appear.
Some think this much is too much, the time is now, that men must bring the Mahdi by their actions, and that violent jihad is the way to do it, and that is the will of Allah.
Naturally, following the will of Allah in any struggle is a good deed, and as Islam is like many other religions, one of works, offering one's life as a martyr is a very good work and not only provides the martyr a guaranteed entrance into heaven, but all of his family as well, no matter what their spiritual status.
What a deal !
and then there are those of us who realize such stuff is just old wives tales.[:0]
But perhaps we should nuke the midde east, just to be on the safe side.
you never know[:o)]
quote:Originally posted by txlawdog
Are there any muslimes here?
Hairy, our resident atheist anti-semitic Jew Muslim, though Barzillia certainly seems to be drinking the kool-aid as of late.
[:D]
[}:)]
'Please, correct me if I'm wrong,
but I understand that most Imams and
clerics of Islam have declared
a holy jihad [Holy war] against the
infidels of the world and, that by
killing an infidel,
(which is a command to all Muslims)
they are assured of a place in heaven.
If that's the case, can you give me
the definition of an infidel?'
There was no disagreement with my
statements and, without hesitation,
he replied, 'Non-believers!'
I responded, 'So, let me make sure
I have this straight. All followers of
Allah have been commanded to kill
everyone who is not of your faith so
they can have a place in heaven.
Is that correct?'
Sage 1
The only thing I got out of it is that we need to help them get into heaven. [}:)][:p][:D][^][;)]
All non Muslims are infidels.
Christians and Jews are the sworn enemy of allah.
We would be better off without a god. The Russians never attacked the US because of mutually assured destruction. Islams WOULD attack the US for the same reason.
Russians Soviet Communists were atheist but muslims believe they are rewarded in paradise for dying while fighting a holy war.
I don't blame them for wanting to leave their world of heat and sand, rocks and violent stupid people everywhere. What joy would this life give them?
I think about how wonderful their lives could all be if they peacefully used the money they get from oil. They could build the best schools on earth, everyone could drive he nicest cars live in the nicest houses, they could make fresh water that would irrigate their desert and turn whole countrys into an oasis...Life could be really good (except it would still be too hot).
Humayun Saqib Muazzam Khan
Captain, United States Army
Sep 9 1976 to Jun 8 2004
Operation Iraqi Freedom
Ayman Abdelrahman Taha
Staff Sergeant, United States Army
Jul 2 1974 to Dec 30 2005
Operation Iraqi Freedom
James Michael Ahearn
Major, United States Army
Nov 3 1963 to July 5 2007
Operation Iraqi Freedom
(Resize Image) Edit by ECC
Kareem Rashad Sultan Khan
Specialist, United States Army
Feb 12 1987 to Aug 6 2007
Operation Iraqi Freedom
(Resize Image) Edit by ECC
Ali Hussam Abass Alrubaeye
Captain, Iraqi Security Force
May 30 2005
+1!
Sage1
Unfortunately, Major Nidal Hassan did not, & he was given the opportunity to (allegedly) kill 12 "infidels" at Ft Hood.
Neither did Ali Mohamed, the former Major in the Egyptian Army & Al Qaeda trainer, who joined the US Army & became a Sgt in an airborne unit so that he could pass classified information on to Ayman Al Zahawri. He pleaded guilty in court in 2000.
It's what they do: Infiltrate & kill. Or, die for the cause.
Neal
Why do inmates need to join Muslims when entering San Quentin Prison.
Simple: The religion ain't the point, the People are the point.
I have long regarded the good and bad things done under the mantle of one religion or another as being similar to the Gun Control Debate.
People in favor of Gun Control claim the guns are bad, cause deaths and crime and all sorts of societal ills.
People opposed to Gun Control claim the people are bad, that they do as they want regardless of laws set forth to tell them not to.
Bad People abuse Guns. Good People do not.
Just as ...
Bad People abuse Religion, Good People do not.
I agree. I think alot of these guy's are younger who may have been influenced by Bush scaring everyone into thinking there were millions of terrorists. When in fact it was a handful. Most died I presume during 911. One reason there is change in ME is that people there could give a hoot about the US. They are more worried about getting democracy and getting democracy is their new battle cry, not kill American's. Al Q has faded as they don't represent what Muslims really want. And what they want is to live like the rest of us, with jobs and opportunity. It's unbelievable where some of these guys get their ideas and when you start questioning them, they disappear. I've not had one Muslim tell me I should convert. Yet we have Christian Missionaries all around the world looking to convert people when half the time they want to be left alone.
Chris is correct; some Muslims have died while serving in the US military.
Unfortunately, Major Nidal Hassan did not, & he was given the opportunity to (allegedly) kill 12 "infidels" at Ft Hood.
Neither did Ali Mohamed, the former Major in the Egyptian Army & Al Qaeda trainer, who joined the US Army & became a Sgt in an airborne unit so that he could pass classified information on to Ayman Al Zahawri. He pleaded guilty in court in 2000.
It's what they do: Infiltrate & kill. Or, die for the cause.
Neal
You overlooked Lawrence Franklin, Ben-ami Kadish & Jonathan Pollard.