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Does America have too many people

bpostbpost Member Posts: 32,669 ✭✭✭✭
edited January 2017 in General Discussion
In Jail?

We jail more people than China and they have a BILLION MORE people to deal with.

Do we have too many laws that jail folks for "stupid stuff"?

Should people pulled over for a busted tail light go to jail for a single non-violent failure to appear for a traffic violation?

Most jails are full of people busted for weed; will we EVER learn this is no solution to people wanting an altered state of mind and get weed legal?

Comments

  • mogley98mogley98 Member Posts: 18,291 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I don't think jail for non violent non career criminals is a good choice.

    Working the punishment off to better society would make more sense to me.

    Of course I am not a huge fan of jailing animals like Dylan Roof either, extermination would be cheaper and more appropriate in my opinion.
    Why don't we go to school and work on the weekends and take the week off!
  • shilowarshilowar Member Posts: 38,811 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by mogley98
    I don't think jail for non violent non career criminals is a good choice.




    People actually serving time for a drug offense are not first timers, they've usually been through the system several times, especially for marijuana. Selling illegal drugs is not a non violent crime, there is all sorts of violence associated with the import and distribution of drugs, even marijuana.
  • mogley98mogley98 Member Posts: 18,291 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Prohibition proved how well making things illegal works.

    I agree many "non violent" repeat offenders may indeed be in jail for drugs.

    PERSONALLY I think first time would encourage treatment options, repeat offenses may require incarceration. But does it do anyone any good? The users or society?

    People who steal rob or hurt others to obtain their drugs are no longer non violent. I have ZERO fear of a pot smoker.

    As far as weed goes I think it is stupid to outlaw it and jail anyone who uses it.

    Trafficking addictive drugs could be focused on over burning a field of pot.

    Besides probably more Americans are on prescribed meds then illegal.

    I realize your LE experience gives you a different perspective, but I used pot as a kid and never committed any other crimes besides smoking a joint and I never wanted to shoot up anything either.



    quote:Originally posted by shilowar
    quote:Originally posted by mogley98
    I don't think jail for non violent non career criminals is a good choice.




    People actually serving time for a drug offense are not first timers, they've usually been through the system several times, especially for marijuana. Selling illegal drugs is not a non violent crime, there is all sorts of violence associated with the import and distribution of drugs, even marijuana.
    Why don't we go to school and work on the weekends and take the week off!
  • dreherdreher Member Posts: 8,891 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Whether or not we have to many people in jail I don't know but we damn sure have to many illegals and libtards!![}:)]
  • Laredo LeftyLaredo Lefty Member Posts: 13,451 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by dreher
    Whether or not we have to many people in jail I don't know but we damn sure have to many illegals and libtards!![}:)]


    Bingo...... We have a winner.
  • shilowarshilowar Member Posts: 38,811 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by mogley98
    Prohibition proved how well making things illegal works.

    I agree many "non violent" repeat offenders may indeed be in jail for drugs.

    PERSONALLY I think first time would encourage treatment options, repeat offenses may require incarceration. But does it do anyone any good? The users or society?

    People who steal rob or hurt others to obtain their drugs are no longer non violent. I have ZERO fear of a pot smoker.

    As far as weed goes I think it is stupid to outlaw it and jail anyone who uses it.

    Trafficking addictive drugs could be focused on over burning a field of pot.

    Besides probably more Americans are on prescribed meds then illegal.

    I realize your LE experience gives you a different perspective, but I used pot as a kid and never committed any other crimes besides smoking a joint and I never wanted to shoot up anything either.



    quote:Originally posted by shilowar
    quote:Originally posted by mogley98
    I don't think jail for non violent non career criminals is a good choice.




    People actually serving time for a drug offense are not first timers, they've usually been through the system several times, especially for marijuana. Selling illegal drugs is not a non violent crime, there is all sorts of violence associated with the import and distribution of drugs, even marijuana.



    Sorry but there are very few people in jail for smoking weed. If someone is serving a jail sentence of any significant length related to marijuana it is because they were convicted of a felony, were caught selling it, or were in possession of significant distribution level quantities.

    Around here even third offense simple marijuana possession might get a person a week end in jail. First offense is usually taken under advisement or deferred and second offense marijuana possession is a $100 fine. Many states have already gone the route of making simple possession a civil offense that doesn't even involve jail time.

    "people in jail for weed" is a manufactured argument from the legalize movement.
  • HandLoadHandLoad Member Posts: 15,998
    edited November -1
    Like total Anarchy? Get rid of all Laws.

    Like an Orderly Society, with everybody following same rules? Enforce Laws.

    Any society with Laws not equally enforced, heads for anarchy.

    Let's agree on the rules, AND ENFORCE THEM EQUITABLY!

    Eliminate useless/worthless/chickenSh laws!
  • EVILDR235EVILDR235 Member Posts: 4,398 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    A lot of money to be made keeping people in jail/prison.

    Big Al.
  • spasmcreekspasmcreek Member Posts: 37,717 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    watched a video of a nut holding a young girl in china at knifepoint to her neck ...woman police was talking to him and getting closer till he moved the knife away and then shot his sorry * dead ...Singapore Malaysia has one of the densest populations in the world and the most severe laws going..shoot a gun into the air and draw a death sentence ...and they have an orderly society...WE NEED TO DO THAT HERE...the current vogue of coddling people just invites more crime
  • JunkballerJunkballer Member Posts: 9,305 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Jail is a industry in America, money circulating for officials thru fines & tax increases.....more police vehicles, bigger improved jails, more employees, etc. etc. [;)]

    "Never do wrong to make a friend----or to keep one".....Robert E. Lee

  • mogley98mogley98 Member Posts: 18,291 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Shilowar the smokers are getting it from somewhere and most smokers sell to get theirs cheaper.

    So the pot smokers that are in jail for selling or "manufacturing' are often just users who wanted to save a few bucks.

    I probably bought 30=40K in pot over the years I smoked and I never once bought from a Gang. Always a friend or a friend of a friend.

    Someone bought a pound and someone else bought a 1/4 lb and I bought an ounce or less.

    Anyway YES too many people are in jail for whatever reason.

    If they are incorigable (sp) kill em and if they are curable cure em
    Why don't we go to school and work on the weekends and take the week off!
  • grumpygygrumpygy Member Posts: 48,464 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Just me but where would you rather do Jail time USA or China. Seems they make jail a deterrent like it should be.
  • shilowarshilowar Member Posts: 38,811 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by mogley98
    Shilowar the smokers are getting it from somewhere and most smokers sell to get theirs cheaper.

    So the pot smokers that are in jail for selling or "manufacturing' are often just users who wanted to save a few bucks.


    I probably bought 30=40K in pot over the years I smoked and I never once bought from a Gang. Always a friend or a friend of a friend.



    If you are dealing drugs to maintain your drug habit then you are a drug dealer and should be in prison. That is hardly a "harmless" smoker of marijuana. If a kid goes from being a casual consumer to buying larger quantities, separating it and selling it then they have stepped up to the big leagues and should pay big league penalties if caught. Your minimizing it as harmless doesn't change the fact that they are participating in a criminal enterprise for profit, whether in supporting their habit or taking money makes no difference. The penalties are known up front, if a "kid" chooses to join the ranks of drug dealers, buying larger quantities with the intent of separating it, and selling it for a profit then they deserve to be felons.

    That 30-40K you spent eventually made it back to someone that perpetuates violence to protect their profit. That weed came from someone where, you can tell yourself that it came from someone's "harmless" home grow, but it likely came across the border via a Drug cartel.
  • armilitearmilite Member Posts: 35,490 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    That is because China knows how to deal with their criminals and a lot of them don't make it to jail. That should happen a lot more here as well and we wouldn't have a prison population then.
  • bpostbpost Member Posts: 32,669 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
  • buschmasterbuschmaster Member Posts: 14,229 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I don't worry about how many people are in jail.

    I don't bother comparing us to some other country.

    I would look at the amount of crime on the streets, and I can tell you there aren't enough criminals in jail.

    easy answer.
  • Marc1301Marc1301 Member Posts: 31,895 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by shilowar
    quote:Originally posted by mogley98
    Shilowar the smokers are getting it from somewhere and most smokers sell to get theirs cheaper.

    So the pot smokers that are in jail for selling or "manufacturing' are often just users who wanted to save a few bucks.


    I probably bought 30=40K in pot over the years I smoked and I never once bought from a Gang. Always a friend or a friend of a friend.



    If you are dealing drugs to maintain your drug habit then you are a drug dealer and should be in prison. That is hardly a "harmless" smoker of marijuana. If a kid goes from being a casual consumer to buying larger quantities, separating it and selling it then they have stepped up to the big leagues and should pay big league penalties if caught. Your minimizing it as harmless doesn't change the fact that they are participating in a criminal enterprise for profit, whether in supporting their habit or taking money makes no difference. The penalties are known up front, if a "kid" chooses to join the ranks of drug dealers, buying larger quantities with the intent of separating it, and selling it for a profit then they deserve to be felons.

    That 30-40K you spent eventually made it back to someone that perpetuates violence to protect their profit. That weed came from someone where, you can tell yourself that it came from someone's "harmless" home grow, but it likely came across the border via a Drug cartel.

    I'm with ya.

    If some dude wants to burn one now and then, I have no issue with it even though I do not indulge myself. Start buying in quantity and selling,...you are a dealer whether you see it that way or not.
    "Beam me up Scotty, there's no intelligent life down here." - William Shatner
  • p3skykingp3skyking Member Posts: 23,916 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    That depends. What are the options to do with them?

    As a country we have too many people in general. We could get rid of 50% (all Democrats and Liberals) and it wouldn't hurt us a bit.

    I noticed something very odd doing research before the election. In all presidential elections that I looked at, there was always less than a 10% difference in population totals on BOTH SIDES.

    Even the Reagan landslide election, the total votes cast wwere surprisingly close.
    What this tells me is half of the population isn't worth a damn and need to be in a corral somewhere, preferably in Maine on the far end of the New England peninsula.
  • montanajoemontanajoe Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 60,209 ******
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Laredo Lefty
    quote:Originally posted by dreher
    Whether or not we have to many people in jail I don't know but we damn sure have to many illegals and libtards!![}:)]


    Bingo...... We have a winner.
    Yes sir,,
  • wpageabcwpageabc Member Posts: 8,760 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    One solution to prison over crowding is to take all the 3 hots and a cot crows sucking tax payers hind tit on death row and execute them to make room for lesser scum bags...
    "What is truth?'
  • SCOUT5SCOUT5 Member Posts: 16,181 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by shilowar
    quote:Originally posted by mogley98
    I don't think jail for non violent non career criminals is a good choice.




    People actually serving time for a drug offense are not first timers, they've usually been through the system several times, especially for marijuana. Selling illegal drugs is not a non violent crime, there is all sorts of violence associated with the import and distribution of drugs, even marijuana.




    Action that harm someone or someones property should be illegal and prosecuted. These actions can be separated from actions that do not harm someone or their property. Like you wrote " there is all sorts of violence associated with the import and distribution of drugs, even marijuana." The associated violence should be prosecuted.

    If drugs themselves were not illegal there would be less violent actions associated with them. Making them illegal hasn't stop use, addiction, or the other illegal behavior. All the war on drugs has done is jail a lot of people for action that harmed no one or their property, and is the reason we have the highest incarceration rate on any industrialized nation. Those in jail for other crimes should still go to jail.

    I do not agree with drug use, I know it is harmful. But if someone wants to do them, that's their business so long as they are not harming someone or their property. When I say harm someone, I do not mean all the round about associations people make. I know the behavior leads to less than good situations and other people are negatively affected, that does not constitute illegal harm.

    A lot of people think other people should go to jail for anything they themselves don't agree with. So much for freedom of choice. The war on drugs has also lead the courts to allow 4th amendment infringements that would have otherwise never even been considered appropriate, which lead to a stun grenade in a baby's crib among other unwanted and unnecessary events.

    We really need to ask ourselves what positive results have come from our war on drugs and at what cost. And we need to also ask what negative results have come from it and what are those cost.
  • SCOUT5SCOUT5 Member Posts: 16,181 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by EVILDR235
    A lot of money to be made keeping people in jail/prison.

    Big Al.


    Enough for private for profit prisons to bribe judges like the one caught in Pennsylvania. If there is one caught you can bet there are others.
  • 1911a1-fan1911a1-fan Member Posts: 51,193 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by bpost
    In Jail?

    We jail more people than China and they have a BILLION MORE people to deal with.

    Do we have too many laws that jail folks for "stupid stuff"?

    Should people pulled over for a busted tail light go to jail for a single non-violent failure to appear for a traffic violation?

    Most jails are full of people busted for weed; will we EVER learn this is no solution to people wanting an altered state of mind and get weed legal?




    and what makes up 90% of our prison population ?


    china not so much


    http://thediplomat.com/2015/01/china-embracing-africa-but-not-africans/
  • montanajoemontanajoe Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 60,209 ******
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by 1911a1-fan
    quote:Originally posted by bpost
    In Jail?

    We jail more people than China and they have a BILLION MORE people to deal with.

    Do we have too many laws that jail folks for "stupid stuff"?

    Should people pulled over for a busted tail light go to jail for a single non-violent failure to appear for a traffic violation?

    Most jails are full of people busted for weed; will we EVER learn this is no solution to people wanting an altered state of mind and get weed legal?




    and what makes up 90% of our prison population ?




    Criminals,,
  • retroxler58retroxler58 Member Posts: 32,693 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Laredo Lefty
    quote:Originally posted by dreher
    Whether or not we have to many people in jail I don't know but we damn sure have to many illegals and libtards!![}:)]


    Bingo...... We have a winner.
    Double BINGO!
  • skicatskicat Member Posts: 14,431
    edited November -1
    Remember my blackberry post? I just bought 54 lbs of organic blackberries because I got them at a good price and by spending this weekend preserving them in different ways, I will eat top quality berries for the next 2 years or so. I am frugal when it makes sense to me and if blackberries were illegal, I suspect being caught with 54 lbs would not be seen by LEO's as the actions of a frugal man but one involved in criminal sales. They would be wrong but it wouldn't matter.

    Growing pot should be like growing tomatoes in your garden. If those who intend on smoking it were able to grow their own, it would remove much of the money from the equation. In tomato harvesting time, it is not uncommon to have a hard time giving away tomatoes fast enough to keep them from spoiling. Keeping it illegal keeps it expensive and keeps the criminal element in business.
  • cbxjeffcbxjeff Member Posts: 17,633 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Bruce, we have too many of the wrong people.
    It's too late for me, save yourself.
  • OakieOakie Member Posts: 40,565 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Too many non violent offenders in Jail. I agree with a previous poster, let them work it off. Too many people in jail for weed too. Our laws are screwed up when a murderer can walk free in a couple of years and a guy with some weed, does more time. I agree, make it legal and let the government control and tax sales. I have seen the justice system do some really F'ed up things. I have zero faith in it. Not just for the offenders, but for the prison guards too. I will tell you about that some other time. What we need in the country is, more common sense judges, prosecutors, and police officers. Oakie
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