In order to participate in the GunBroker Member forums, you must be logged in with your GunBroker.com account. Click the sign-in button at the top right of the forums page to get connected.

Black Powder shooters info!

jjmitchell60jjmitchell60 Member Posts: 3,887
edited August 2003 in General Discussion
Those on the board that shoot the real stuff, black powder not a substitute, should be buying what they can when they can. I went today to pick up a mixed case of FF & FFF and the distributor told me he was almost out for the whole year! He went on to tell me he did not know if he would be able to get much next year,2004, and if so he epects it to at least double in price! I paid $6.40 + tax per pound today in case lot but the same stuff next year will be at least $12 per pound due to the Homeland Security Act. He also said that the ATF is checking him once a week as to who he sells to! He said that if things go as the Government wants then next year if you buy BP you will have to sign for it on a form that is kept on file! The days of true BP shooting are numbered people unless we start to do something about it now. I justed wanted to give all a heads up on the BP situation coming up as soon as next year.

Comments

  • bigal125bigal125 Member Posts: 1,136 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    What about the substitutes, though? Pyrodex, etc, etc...?

    Know anything about if/how they will be affected?

    Thanks for the tip!

    Big Al
  • powdersmokepowdersmoke Member Posts: 3,241
    edited November -1
    Wrote about makeing my own on the forum before. Looks like I will have to get the recipe out and gather together the 'non' sparking utensils.



    fc3cdbfd.gif

    When you wrestle a 'gator, there ain't no good end!!

    "Molon Labe!" Spartan General-King Leonidas
  • rldowns3rldowns3 Member Posts: 6,096
    edited November -1
    I'm interested to know how you make your own black powder, powdersmoke. What do you need and what do you do?

    annoyaliberal.jpgnotmyfault.gif
  • Rafter-SRafter-S Member Posts: 2,173 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    For those of you who are tempted to make your own, just remember: black powder is a "class A explosive," where its cousin, smokeless powder, is a "flammable solid." And making any kind of explosive is hazardous. You may want to leave it to the pros...and even they blow themselves up with accidents.

    My 2-cents worth,
    Rafter-S

    "What is truth? No wonder jesting Pilate turned away. The truth, it has a thousand faces -- show only one of them, and the whole truth flies away! But how to show the whole? That is the question."
    --Thomas Wolfe, "You Can't Go Home Again" (1934)
  • powdersmokepowdersmoke Member Posts: 3,241
    edited November -1
    [}:)]Oh lord, he's tellin' all these terrorists how to make an explosive.[:(!]

    [:D][:D]

    Before you try this
    Before you make this
    Before you even think of this
    Blackpowder can kill you! It is dangerous!
    Do not do this without proper consideration of the consequences!
    If you have any doubts that you will be able to do this, DON'T!

    Blackpowder is the oldest explosive there is.
    The Chinese invented it many thousand years ago for the use in fireworks, later they used it in bombs and rockets.

    Ordinary blackpowder contains a mixture of potassium nitrate (saltpeter), sulfur and charcoal. The chinese somehow knew if you want a mixture to burn (in a confined space), you need oxygen. A nitrate has 3 oxygen atoms which come off when the temperature rises. For this to be of use you need a fuel, this is the charcoal and sulfur.

    There are other nitrates and other oxidizers you can use, those mentioned you can obtain easily.

    You could use sodium nitrate. Sodium is the little brother of potassium but has a few disadvantages. One disadvantage is it extracts a bit water from the air. Potassium nitrate doesn't. Also it is a stronger oxidizer which will result in more pressure, not necessarily good in BP firearms.

    What do you need ?

    Saltpeter (this is a fertilizer and you can often be obtained at gardening stores and Ranch/farm supplys. It is often in the form of little white balls) it comes under various commercial names. Read the label.

    Sulfur (also called flowers of sulfur) you can obtain this at a drugstore or farm supply.

    Charcoal (you can use barbeque charcoal.)

    A basic rules is the finer the stuff, the better it will burn.
    To make the (chile)saltpeter very fine you can use an electric food grinder/processor. Or you could do it by hand with a mortar & pestle.

    To powder the charcoal you could also use the mortar & pestle or you could just use a hammer and bucket. Watch that you don't breath too much of the dust.

    You can also make charcoal by heating any kind of wood in a large bucket (perhaps an old paint can). Make a hole in the lid of the bucket and fill with wood. You could use straw/dry grass instead of wood(this will make the blackpowder burn faster). Now make a fire and put the bucket on the fire. After it stops smoking the charcoal is ready for use.

    The sulfur should already be powdered (unless you're like me and have a lump that moisture has gotten to) just crush the lumbs.

    By weight; weigh out 8 oz. saltpeter, about 2 1/2 oz. charcoal and 2 oz. sulfur. (This will make 12 1/2 oz).

    By volume; 2 cups saltpeter, 1/2 cup charcoal and 1/2 cup sulfur. This will make slightly over a pound. (The measure is very forgiving and you'll find others give you slightly different volumes, you could adjust the mixture to get different burn properties)

    Mix the ingredients well in a wooden or brass bowl (nonsparking) until the mixture is all dark grey. Now moisten the mixture with water(bisquit mix consistancy). Forcefully rub the powder into the sides of the bowl for about 15 minutes. When done rub this stuff through a screen (You can use a big wooden spoon). Spread the blackpowder on old newspaper and let it dry. You could layer it in a pan about 1/2" thick and let dry.

    When it is totally dry the blackpowder should be granular (or in cake form if you layered it in a pan) and you must crush it. Use a woodenspoon (again) or mortar & pestle.

    Place the blackpowder in an air/watertight container until ready for use. Dry blackpowder is spark sensitive. Be careful!

    Go out and make some smoke and noise.

    fc3cdbfd.gif

    When you wrestle a 'gator, there ain't no good end!!

    "Molon Labe!" Spartan General-King Leonidas
  • idsman75idsman75 Member Posts: 13,398 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    A friend of mine and I were really into Chemistry and related science subjects when we were in high school. We got ahold of all the ingredients and made our own....and made our own bottle rockets. Yep, we got em to launch and packed a lady-finger in the end to get a report out of it.
  • jjmitchell60jjmitchell60 Member Posts: 3,887
    edited November -1
    As to the substitutes, as I understand it if it can be used to make a bomb then it will have to have some type of "marker" in it so as to tell the "investigating Authorities" what it is and what batch it came from. We discussed this at the reenactment last weekend and what we jokingly said was watch it be a chemical dye that would give off a funny color smoke when shot![:p] I said at least we could give the Brits the red powder and us some other color![;)] Pyrdex and other substitutes can be used as an explosive the same as BP so I figure they will fall under the rules to some degree as well. One thing that I do know that what is set in stone is that if a BP manufacture does not have a mixing plant in the U.S. then they will not be selling in the U.S. Goex has a plant in LA and another some where else but I do not know where in the U.S. Elephant Brand has plans of getting a mixing plant up and running in the near future. As to the Swiss powder and the Chinese, which is what I bought today, I do not know their plans. I do know that many a professional BP shooter uses the Swiss Brand because it is more consistant. Many reenactors use the Chinese due to price and as stated earlier, they invented it. It is a slippery slope we are on right now with this "Homeland Security Act" so don't be suprised of many changes. I am hearing through the grape vine that we will have to sign and registor for fertilizer here soon. I reckon the "Homeland Security Agency" does not want any exploding tomatos![:0] I can sum up what I think of the "Homeland Security Agency" and those running it with this one picture, [:o)], each and every one of them![}:)]
  • woodsrunnerwoodsrunner Member Posts: 5,378 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Ever hear of the Foxfire books? Go buy #5, there is instructions there for making your own. There is also alot of great information on the southern mountain style rifles, and enough info to get you started building a rifle if you were so inclined.

    Woods
  • longhunterlonghunter Member Posts: 3,242
    edited November -1
    Woods, The Foxfire series....Should be required reading should'nt it?I love em...got lotsa good stuff from em...Best I be buyin some powder and or ingredients quick eh?Geez....what a mess this is gonna be folks,ain't life just grand[:(!]
  • powdersmokepowdersmoke Member Posts: 3,241
    edited November -1
    Found this further info' on the web.


    Here's How:

    Originally, black powder was made by mixing equal amounts, by weight, of elemental sulfur, charcoal, and saltpeter (potassium nitrate).
    The ratio was later adjusted to 75:15:10 saltpeter:sulfur:charcoal. Willow is most often used as the source for the charcoal.
    The three components were carefully and completely ground together, resulting in a powder called 'serpentine'.
    Serpentine often required re-mixing prior to use. The grinding and mixing process was very, very dangerous!
    Some of the hazard was reduced by adding water, wine, or other liquids while grinding and mixing.
    The slurry was forced through a screen to make small pellets. The pellets were then allowed to dry.
    All it takes is a single spark to ignite gunpowder!
    A great deal of smoke is produced when gunpowder is burned. This impairs visibility in battle.
    Willow is the traditional wood used to make charcoal, but grapevine, hazel, elder, laurel, and pine cones may be used.
    Charcoal is not the only fuel that can be used. Sugar is used instead in many pyrotechnic applications. Too much smoke ruins a firework display!
    To summarize, black powder consists of a fuel (charcoal or sugar) and an oxidizer (saltpeter), and sulfur, to allow for a stable reaction.
    The carbon from the charcoal plus oxygen forms carbon dioxide and energy.
    The reaction would be slow, like a wood fire, except for the oxidizing agent. Carbon in a fire must draw oxygen from the air. Saltpeter provides extra oxygen.
    Potassium nitrate, sulfur, and carbon react together to form nitrogen and carbon dioxide gases and potassium sulfide.
    The expanding gases, nitrogen and carbon dioxide, provide the propelling action.

    Tips:

    Black powder is of great historical importance in chemistry. Although it can explode, its principal use is as a propellant.
    Gunpowder was invented by Chinese alchemists in the 9th century.
    Unless you are making black powder for rocketry or pyrotechnics and know what you are doing, don't make it!

    What You Need:
    Saltpeter (Niter)
    Sulfur
    Charcoal or Sugar
    Water




    fc3cdbfd.gif

    When you wrestle a 'gator, there ain't no good end!!

    "Molon Labe!" Spartan General-King Leonidas
  • powdersmokepowdersmoke Member Posts: 3,241
    edited November -1
    Do not try this if you are not familiar with Blackpowder and if you don't have the proper tools.

    (I have not tried this method myself.)


    Another way of making Black Powder off the web.

    Potassium nitrate, granulated 3 cups (.75 litre), wood charcoal, powdered, 2 cups (.5 litre), powdered sulfur, 1/2 cup (1/8 litre), alcohol, 5 pints (2.5 litres) whiskey, rubbing, etc. water 3 cups (.75 litre), a heat source, 2 buckets- each 2 gallon (7.5 litres) capacity, one of which must be heat resistant (metal, ceramic), a flat window screen 1 foot square, large wooden stick, and a cloth, 2 ft. sq.

    Place alcohol in one of the buckets. Place potassium nitrate, charcoal, and sulfur in the heat resistant bucket. Add 1 cups water and mix thoroughly with wooden stick until all ingredients are dissolved. Add remaining water (2 cups) to mixture. Place bucket on heat source and stir until small bubbles begin to form.

    Note: Do NOT boil mixture. Be sure all mixture stays wet. If any is dry, as on sides of pan, it may ignite.

    Remove bucket from heat and pour mixture into alcohol while stirring vigorously. Let alcohol mixture stand about 5 minutes. Strain mixture through cloth to obtain black powder. Discard liquid. Wrap cloth around black powder and squeeze to remove all excess liquid. Place screening over dry bucket. Place workable amount of damp powder on screen and granulate by rubbing solid through screen.

    Note: If granulated particles appear to stick together and change shape, recombine entire batch of powder in alcohol and strain again.

    Spread granulated powder on flat dry surface so that layer about 1/2" (1.25 cm) is formed. Allow to dry. Use radiator, or direct sunlight. This should be dried as soon as possible, preferably in one hour. The longer the drying period, the less effective the black powder.


    Note: Remove from here as soon as granules are dry. Black powder is now ready for use.

    I stress again that you should not do this if you are not familiar with black powder and its destructive potential. This is for you information only and not intended for use by the inexperienced

    fc3cdbfd.gif

    When you wrestle a 'gator, there ain't no good end!!

    "Molon Labe!" Spartan General-King Leonidas
  • v35v35 Member Posts: 12,710 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Because of the danger of explosion, the components of black powder are ground in small quantities WET. Greener talks of hours to get proper mixing.
    As a kid, a dry mixture of about 50 grains I was grinding in a ceramic mortar and pestle exploded in my hands.
    Dupont who had been producing black powder for 150 years and knew what they were doing, had a black powder explosion in NJ not that long ago. That ended their black powder production.
  • idsman75idsman75 Member Posts: 13,398 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    charcoal, saltpeter and sulfur.....the reason West Point's school colors are Black, Gray and Gold.
Sign In or Register to comment.