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No matter where in the world you are stationed, you will have the opportunity to take college coursework. The University of Maryland has a sattellite campus in Germany. When I was in Honduras I took a college Algebra class through Central Texas College. The Army actually had college instructors being paid to live in Honduras to teach those classes. I have nothing bad to say about the other services. I've worked with all branches. Each service has a different way of getting the job done. We don't all agree and we don't all use the same acronyms but mission accomplishment has always been the goal when I have worked with the sister services. I have my personal reasons for joining the Army. I wanted to be an MP and the Air Force SP's that I have worked with have primarily filled the role of security guard. I knew that going in so I didn't want to join the Air Force. The Marine Corps either stations you at Camp Pendleton or Camp Lejeune (SP?) or on a boat. I wanted to have more opportunity to be stationed in a variety of places than that. I hate the water so the Navy was out of the question for me. After spending two years as a West Point cadet I felt most comfortable with the Army and decided to go the enlisted route. Hence, I chose Army. Almost every Commander and Platoon Leader that I have ever had has tried to push me to go to OCS. I have the college and the test scores and the experience and I have always been placed in positions that are typically above that of the rank I hold. However, I have dealt with too much brass and too many "suits" that were "out of their lane". I just don't want to deal with that crap. I want to be on the ground with my soldiers and I can't wait to get back to the line and get me my own squad.
The only beef I have with any of the services is with the Navy and that only occurs on the first Saturday of every December when the Brave Ol' Army Team's gridiron granadiers make every attempt to beat the **** out of the squids!
USAF probably has the best schools. If you want a second career after you get out, you'll be trained well for something. Mine has been typical, I was trained as an electronics technician, worked 21 years in ground radar, and upon retirement I got a job as a broadcast engineer for PBS TV and radio stations using the military skills and training. I have since retired from that as well, and it all left me in pretty good shape financially. I also enjoyed almost every minute of it.
The travel situation wasn't perfect perhaps, I spent an average of three years at each domestic assignment, and had two one year tours in Alaska, one in Japan.
The Navy is best for travel if you don't get sea sick and don't mind being away from the family for six months at a time.
oldgunner has raised a good point. I always encourage people to pick something that they think they will be happy with because they are entering a committment. Some people want to jump out of airplanes and shoot guns. They have a blast and many of those jobs (i.e. Airborne Ranger) will give you a GREAT foot into future law enforcement careers. I recruited a young female back in May who got a job working on microcomputers. I was shocked because she only had to enlist for 4 years to get those jobs. Don't fall into the stereotype trap. The Army has just as many "high tech" jobs as any of the other services. Tell the guidance counselor what you are looking for. Let him know if you are looking for and why you are joining. He will show you job descriptions for any job that you are considering. Also, look at ALL of the jobs that are available to you. Don't pick something on impulse because it's what you had your heart set on. We had a recruit go up to MEPS a year ago who really didn't know what he wanted to do in the Army. He called the recruiting office from MEPS to talk with his recruiter. He started naming off the jobs that were open to him and he came across "Unmanned Aircraft Operator" or something along those lines. It's hard to remember the names of all 212 jobs but it was something like that. Today he is operating unmanned aircraft for the Army and is having fun flying those "remote controlled" planes. Keep an open mind and don't be afraid to call your recruiter from MEPS while you are in the job-picking process. The guidance counselor will let you do this. Your recruiter always wants you to be happy with what you get.
Speaking of ASVAB, what's a good score? I took mine about 6 months ago and the scores were never really explained to us. I remember that mine was either a 216 or 222. I can't remember exactly but I know it was one of those two. I'm considering my options and I just wanted to know if this is average? Thanks.
"To be prepared for War is one of the most
effectual means of preserving peace"-George Washington
None of the ASVAB line scores go that high. The ASVAB is broken down into 10 different scores because the test covers many different areas from word knowledge to paragraph comprehension to algebra to simple math to electronics to coding speed and a host of other areas. The most important score is your GT score (General Technical). This score determines what you qualify for as far as incentives are concerned. The GT score is a score from 1 - 99. It is not a percentage. It is a difficulty level. If you score 50+ then you qualify for the GI Bill AND the Army College Fund where you would only qualify for the GI Bill if you scored below a 50. You wouldn't get any bonuses or special schools (i.e. Airborne School or Ranger School) guaranteed in your contract if you scored below a 50. Check out the following website for a detailed analysis and explanation of all of the ASVAB line scores and what each job requires. Different jobs require different line scores. If you want to do something with Electronics then your Electronics line score has to be high. This website can explain it better than I can off the top of my head. I still research this and reference this info when I am talking with an applicant. You'll notice that Gunbroker is one of the listed sponsors for this US Military site so I'm sure they won't mind me listing the link.
I guess I was mistaken but I could have sworn now that I think about it that I got a 216. I took it through my high school and I thought that there were a lot of 190's and around there for something like an overall score. I remember having the scores for each category, but I thought those were precentiles on how you compare to other students. I'll check out that site though.
"To be prepared for War is one of the most
effectual means of preserving peace"-George Washington
I'm back, had to clean off the boots before I could give everyone the low down. I nearly busted out laughing when my recruiter gave me the 'Picture Yourself, Sign-up today' speech.
First of all, I didn't take the ASVB, I took a PRACTICE ASVB. The good news is that my practice test was a 94(out of 99) ! Monday morning my recruiter is taking me in for the real deal and all the physical stuff. I didn't pass by weight (should have been 203) but I DID pass body fat percentage, so that's good. My recruiter was really pushing my to sign Friday (and back out later if I needed too?) but I told him I wasn't signing anything until I was absolutely ready. He keeps talking about signing contracts Monday even though I've made it clear I won't consider it until I can speak with my boss (Wednesday). I decided 97B(Counter Intelligence Agent) is the MOS for me. I have several questions I'm hoping you guys can answer for me.
1. My chosen MOS requires a Top Secrete clearance. I understand this clearance may take several months to get(at which time I would already be in Basic Training, maybe out of it?). If my clearance does not get accepted, will I be able to drop out if no other MOS suits me? Does this need to be in my contract?
2. I want to attend college while I serve does this need to be in my contract?
3. I want Airborne, Ranger, and Air Assault training, however I'd like to remain in my current MOS is that possible? Should these schools be in my contract?
4. Should my bonus be in my contract? How much of a bonus should I expect?
5. I'm currently under a lease with my Apartment complex, does my entrance into the military service give me a loop hole out of my lease agreement(provided I give them enough notice), or is this dependant on the lease agreement?
6. My recruiter told me he could get me E-2 before Basic if we did all of the formation training and pt requirements before hand, should this be in my contract?
7. My recruiter said my 2 years of Vocational School (During High school) would automatically qualify me for E-3, should this be in my contract? Since I would automatically qualify for E-3, would I also get a promotion for the formation and pt requirements (E-4)?
Thanks,
Adam
Don't worry about the bullet with your name on it, worry about the fragmentation grenade addressed 'To Occupant'.
Monkey, if it aint written down, it didnt happen. CYA in the contract. Very doubtfull on a E4 out of boot, and even though you QUALIFY for E3, that doesnt mean you get it upfront, unless its in the contract.
Good luck, its somthing you can remember for the rest of your life.
And as a former landlord, if there is no clause in your lease, you are obligated to pay it for the duration of the contract. The armed forces frown deeply on deadbeats, so dont think you can blow him off. With 1 phone call, your wages would be garnished and bye bye TS clearance.
Those people who see nothing but grey areas, no black and white, are lost in the fog.
If you are typical of young people entering the military today, I am greatly saddened. You do not seem to have the slightest notion of love of country, gratitude or want of service. Your seem motivated only by greed and a concern for continued employment. It's really all about you.
You really suck.
Why does man kill? He kills for food. But not only for food; frequently, he must have a beverage.
thesupermonkey--If you take 97B you won't get Ranger school. I can almost guarantee it. There is the possibility of getting Airborne school down the road but you probably won't be able to get it in your initial enlistment contract unless you can get Fort Bragg guaranteed to you as your duty station. The only way you can do that is if Fort Bragg needs a 97B. I will tell you right now that there are VERY few 97B positions in the Army. You will have the test scores needed for it. You have to make sure that you answer every question that your recruiter asks you and every question that they ask you at MEPS with complete and utter honesty if you want a Top Secret clearance. The background investigators that go back and talk with your friends and references and your family will find out everything. Some people have a hard time producing names/numbers/addresses for references. Make sure that yours are TIGHT! Tell your recruiter that you will not enlist unless they offer you the DLAB. When you sit down to pick your job there may not be any 97B slots available. If that is the case, I would go with the Military Intelligence Linguist MOS. If you like the Army you can reclassify to the 97B MOS after that if no 97B slots are available at your time of enlistment. Your absolute BEST bet for getting what you want will be on the last Monday of the month. That is the last day that statistics for the current month are gathered and everybody in recruiting wants to finish off the month with a bang. If you enlist on the last Monday of the month you will have the highest chance of getting the strings pulled up at The Rock's level. The last Monday of the month is pressure day. Recruiting command is under the highest amount of pressure to get you what you want in order to enlist. You won't get Ranger training in your contract. You MAY get Airborne training in your contract if they need a 97B at Fort Bragg. You may or may not get 97B. The chances are slim but I've seen serious miracles happen on the last Monday of the month. Talk to your recruiter ASAP and INSIST on taking the DLAB (Defense Language Aptitude Battery) BEFORE you sit down with the guidance counselor. After you take the DLAB, keep an open mind about the MI Linguist job. You will get some top notch intelligence and language training at the Defense Language Institute in Monterey, CA. Take some college computer programming courses while you are in the Army and, combined with the linguist job, you will have a good shot at intelligence work with other federal agencies. If you have an MI Linguist background with Arabic, you will be a virtual shoe-in with the FBI/CIA/NSA. A lot of MI Linguists go that route.
quote:
1. My chosen MOS requires a Top Secrete clearance. I understand this clearance may take several months to get(at which time I would already be in Basic Training, maybe out of it?). If my clearance does not get accepted, will I be able to drop out if no other MOS suits me? Does this need to be in my contract?
--I don't know about that one. The Top Secret Clearance takes awhile to get. This usually isn't finished before Basic Training is over. Unless you have something criminal in your background or have had offenses that people know about (i.e. "drugs") that were undiscovered by law enforcement I wouldn't worry about it.
2. I want to attend college while I serve does this need to be in my contract?
--They can't gurantee college while you serve. That is something that you have to take advantage of on your off-time. If it is a priority for you then you will be able to accomplish it. They can only guarantee your MOS, your duty station (sometimes), bonuses, special schools in addition to your MOS(like Airborne school), and the GI Bill/Army College Fund.
3. I want Airborne, Ranger, and Air Assault training, however I'd like to remain in my current MOS is that possible? Should these schools be in my contract?
--I am 99.99% sure that you won't go to Ranger school if you are in the Military Intelligence Field. If you are interested in intelligence and Spec Ops then go MI first and use that as a springboard to go into the Special Forces. Anyone who is qualified medically/psychologically/physically for Special Forces can do that regardless of their MOS. Then you will get a whole HOST of other schools in addition to that such as Airborne, Air Assault, SERE (Survival Evasion Resistance Escape) and many others. They often train with Delta Force and sometimes SAS.
4. Should my bonus be in my contract? How much of a bonus should I expect?
--I can't tell you how much of a bonus to expect. It all depends on the current need for the MOS that you seek. If they only need one or two people to fill slots for the MOS you desire then there probably won't be a bonus. There is almost always a HUGE bonus (8K - 15K) for Military Intelligence Linguists. Yes, the bonus WILL be in your contract. You will receive a $7K payment towards that bonus when you arrive at your first duty station and the remainder will be paid in equal increments every year on the anniversary of your enlistment until the end of your first enlistment contract. This is to prevent problems with brand new soldiers showing up at their first duty station, collecting a huge bonus and then using it to go AWOL.
5. I'm currently under a lease with my Apartment complex, does my entrance into the military service give me a loop hole out of my lease agreement(provided I give them enough notice), or is this dependant on the lease agreement?
--I am not a lawyer so don't hold my feet to the fire on this one. Yes, this does provide you with a loophole if you enlist. Your landlord is required by law to let you out of yoru lease if you enlist. Just let him know immediately after you sign your contract. When that happens you will know exactly when you will be shipping out for Basic Training. When you arrive at your first duty station, get a copy of the "Military Clause" from your chain-of-command and insist that all future landlords include that clause in the lease agreement before you sign it. Then take that lease agreement to JAG (the Army lawyers) and have them review it before you sign it to ensure that you aren't getting screwed. Almost all landlords around a military installation will be soldier-friendly. Those that are not get put on a list of places where it is prohibited for service-members to live. Soldiers actually have a lawful legally-binding order not to rent from certain landlords. Landlords HATE the idea of being put on this list so they will almost always work with you when it comes to your lease agreement.
6. My recruiter told me he could get me E-2 before Basic if we did all of the formation training and pt requirements before hand, should this be in my contract?
7. My recruiter said my 2 years of Vocational School (During High school) would automatically qualify me for E-3, should this be in my contract? Since I would automatically qualify for E-3, would I also get a promotion for the formation and pt requirements (E-4)?
--I am going to combine my answer to questions 6 & 7. If your Vocational School will get you E-3 then that is as high as you will go with promotions before you get to basic training. This WILL be in your contract. The day you report to basic training you will be receiving E-3 pay. Unless you have a college degree you will not get an E-4 promotion before you go to Basic Training. Your recruiter is required to make every attempt to get you to attend these monthly functions in order to prepare you for Basic Training. He is failing the Army and the Drill Sergeants if he doesn't. Do yourself a favor and attend even though there is no financial reward for you for doing so. If your education level can get you E-3 then that is as high as you will go. Nothing else will get you beyond E-3 before you leave for Basic Training. You will have E-3 given to you at MEPS the day you enlist and it will be in your contract. I never tell anyone that they will get promoted on the basis of prior education beyond a normal high school diploma unless I have the documentation for that education in my hand. I only disclose that information AFTER I have verified all additional education transcripts with the Army Regulation that governs it.
Shootist....just remember...if it weren't for the Navy you'd only be a soldier!!!! God I used to love saying that to my jarhead friends!! Used to spin them right through the roof. My favorite though was the Beachmaster motto, "where we go the United States Marine Corp follows". The truth sometimes hurts but it doesn't make it any less the truth.
My observations of the Army(10th Mountain Division) in Somalia was that they seemed incapable of independent thought and action. I had adopted a young USMC E-6 and his 5 or 6 marines who had been left behind by the Corps at the fuel farm near Green Beach at the AirPort. When it came time for those Marines to be relieved by a COMPANY of soldiers to run the fuel farm he couldn't get the Army Captain and his 130 soldiers to relieve them. With absolutely no authority at all I ordered the Captain to get off his * and relieve the Marines so they could get on the big white bird and fly home. I lost a lot of respect for the Army that day. The timid behavior of those soldiers renewed the respect I have for Marines and sailors and their ability to act decisively and independently without adult supervision. Maybe what I saw was an aberration and not characteristic of the Army as a whole...but it's what you see that makes an impression. I've NEVER seen a timid Marine! Beach
Who the F--- do YOU think you are coming down on Supermonkey like that.Just because he's seriously considering joining the military because his job is about to end.Personally I think he's making a great decision for himself and for the future of his family when the time is right.
I did not ever serve in any branch of the military.I do respect those who have and those who have chosen to do so.Many of my friends at work are ex-vets,most of whom are Vietnam vets.
Those didn't have a choice if they went or not.They had to go,and several of them were wounded and saw guys killed before their eyes.
Do you really think that someone goes into any branch of the service just for grins,I seriously doubt it.Knowing that at anytime you might be called upon to fight for your country regardless of your or position is sure as Hell not a decision to made lightly to say the least.
I guess you'd rather see someone lose their job and draw welfare or
unemployment and suck on the government's hind tit instead of going out and trying to make a better life for themselves,regardless of what it is they do.
Granted,some folks join up just for a so called free ride,and that is a shame I agree,but why don't you go back and reread the postings made by Supermonkey regarding all of this.
Sounds to me like he knows what he wants and is going in headfirst
but with his eyes wide open nonetheless.Sure as hell doesn't sound like greed to me.
DancesWithSheep,
You're probably right. However I've heard the horror stories of young men and women being thoroughly screwed over by their recruiters. I don't intend to be one of them. In all honestly, love for my country IS NOT my only motivation. I want adventure, training, travel, college, and trial by fire. I'm not doing it for the money, as a DBA I'm already making more than I ever will in the Army. If the army is handing out 50 thousand dollars in college money and signing bonuses, I'll be in line to receive it. I'm sorry if I lose your respect because of that.
Idsman,
There was a lot of information I didn't have for my recruiter during the interview. He said exactness didn't matter much, and we guessed at a lot of dates, times etc. Will this hurt my chances at a Top Secrete clearance?
Thanks for the help guys,
Adam
Don't worry about the bullet with your name on it, worry about the fragmentation grenade addressed 'To Occupant'.
I joined the Marine Corps the day after high school. I just assumed all Marines were grunts. I didn't know or care about signing bonuses, college tuition reimbursements or ironclad outs to my enlistment if things didn't go as planned. I wanted only to serve my country in what I believed was the best branch of service. That's all. That was 1962. I was seventeen. I served six years active, including 1 1/2 tours in Vietnam.
I realize that that was another time, and that everyone needs to look out for his own--more so at twenty-two probably than at seventeen. And I'm not saying that with SpiderMonkey "what's in it for me?" is everything; I'm saying it seems to be the only thing.
Why does man kill? He kills for food. But not only for food; frequently, he must have a beverage.
thesupermonkey--Dates and times are important but everything should be fine so long as you didn't make anything up. Everything will be okay just as long as you answered the questions to the best of your knowledge. Whether you lived at one location from June of 1999 to August of 2001 or if you lived there from May of 199 to September 2001 it doesn't matter that much. You had to list a reference for each location. If you are a few weeks or even a month off due to the fact that you had to go back in your memory by 7 years it won't matter.
As far as the "independent thought" stereotypye is concerned, don't be concerned. It's a stereotype. I've put a few fat Marines in the Army right after they got out of the Marine Corps. The last one was the brother of an old college roommate of mine. He was still mama's boy.
okay,perhaps I went off on you unfairly.Not knowing your the feelings you just mentioned in your last post.Now I see where you're
coming from.Since you served in the Marines,I guess it's only natural to keep track of the trends regarding new recruits and even question the reasons why they sign on to start with.
I thank you for your service in 'Nam and elsewhere,and apologize for taking a chunk out of your backside earlier today.
I do agree with you that a person has a bit more at stake at age 22
than they might at 17 and I think ol' Monkey is taking a great step
towards his future.
DancesWithSheep--You bring up a very interesting perspective. NCO's today are constantly griping about soldiers that merely enlist for the GI Bill. Want to know the truth? The GI Bill isn't much of a draw anymore. Everyone is entitled to the GI Bill when they enlist the first time. The funny thing is, most males sign up for a combat arms MOS. They seem to be the easiest training slots to fill. Those that are concerned about the incentives shouldn't be faulted. I don't fault someone for having a plan in life and making sure that all their "ducks are in a row" so that they can serve and still continue their lives after their service is over. Do you think their kids will be inclined to serve if they get out of the military without any plan and fall flat on their face financially? An all-volunteer service is the best way to go as far as our defense is concerned. I know I wouldn't have to be a recruiter if there was a mandatory service obligation but just take a look at the nations that do have such an obligation. Look at the nations that have a military that is made up of all-volunteer servicemen and women. The studies and theories of what motivates people give an interesting light to the subject. It is imporatant and effective to have sources of short and long term motivation in front of you so you don't lose the forest for the trees. My overall motivation may be to retire from the Army as an E-9. Right now I am motivated to get selected for E-7 within the next 5 years. I bust my tail and do all the right things in order to attain E-7. After I reach that level then my motivation will be to make E-8. My higher goal is to make E-9 but these are the steps laid out in front of me in order to get to that higher goal. Then I ask myself why I want to be an E-9. The pay, priviledges and career progression may be my motivation for going each additional step. However, I feel that making it to the rank of Command Sergeant Major is demonstrative of the fact that I served my nation to the utmost of my potential. Just because thesupermonky wants to make sure that he does everything to secure his entitlements does not mean that he does not have a drop of patriotic blood in his body.
A Private's job is to do what he is told. A Sergeant's job is to ensure that the Privates are doing what they are told to do so that the overall accomplishment of the mission is achieved. Someone who has never served does not have the same perspective as someone who has served. TheSuperMonkey is behaving in a manner that most individuals behave before they enlist. As he continues to serve, thesupermonkey will progress (in all likelihood) towards the perspective that you have. I'm sure thesupermonkey has the right mindset. He's just thinking about the future. 20 years from now that kid out in the middle of nowhere who has no exposure to the military may see one of two different things. He could see thesupermonkey sitting on a street corner homeless and drinking out of a paperbag wearing pins and buttons denoting that he served his country. That same kid could see thesupermonkey driving by in a Cadillac because he was wise and took advantage of his opportunities. Which example do you think will make for the better living and breathing recruiting poster? At least 90% of today's military is comprised of people that were approached by recruiters--not people who walked into a recruiting station. We can sit and complain about the sad state of affairs but that will not ensure a ready force.
During the early 90's NCO's and officers in the U.S. Army sat and griped about "The Pepsi Generation" who were then Privates who were "doomed to fail" America. In their opinion, the military was sure to fall flat on its face due to "The Pepsi Generation". The same was said about "Generation X". Now there are Generation X-ers who are NCO's in today's military kicking butt and getting the job done in places like Bosnia, Kosovo, Afghanistan and other places like that.
Do not be discouraged DancesWithWolves. TheSuperMonkey will be in good hands. The Corps of Non-Commissioned Officers will make sure of that.
P.S. Thank you for your service. When I see monuments and plaques denoting the selfless service of those that have gone before me, I often feel a slight chill run down my spine when I realize that I am treading where men like you have trod.
I came back from Vietnam in June of 1968 and started UC Berkeley that same Fall. It was like going from one planet to another. I remember once hitchhiking on University Avenue in the rain and being picked up by a young soldier in uniform on leave, this despite my long hair and beard. I noticed him looking at the old field jacket I always wore, so after we rode a ways I told him I had been a Marine in Vietnam. I'll never forget what he said as he dropped me off; few words have touched me near as much before or since:
"Thank you for coming home."
Why does man kill? He kills for food. But not only for food; frequently, he must have a beverage.
Supermonkey,
Whatever you decide, GOOD LUCK. Since you are over 20 and have lived a little, if you feel you are ready, do it. If the things that help you decide are what you can use later in life, get them, if they were not for the taking, they would not be there. If I could do things different, when I was 19, I would have said to my future wife, wait for me, I need to do this. I didn't, and now I am over thirty, over weight and have four children and a wife to support, and NOW is when I am seriously considering signing up. Info and emails are free from recruiters and proliferous. I don't need the money, I don't need the bonus', I just have a sense that something is incomplete in my life. I know what it is. It is never having served my country. Don't wait until it is too late (or almost too late with even more factors to have to weigh). Good luck with your decision.
twins
DancesWith Sheep: Even though you were hard on supermonkey I must
agree with you. I enlisted in the army in '43, along with my
only brother who went into the Air Corps as a radio gunner. My dad
wasnt allowed to enlist, even though a WW 1 Vet. He had to wait and
be drafted at his request. (he once again was wounded in France and came home on a hospital ship). All of us served in the ETO. I was
a 3rd Inf Div dogface in Europe. No contracts, no set term, just for the duration of the war plus 6 months. And no way out.
What ever happened to the JFK saying "ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country". Guess that in this day and age it is "old fashioned". Now, it seems to be, "how much money do I get out of it" or "my lawyer will get me out of the "contract" if it dont go my way or I dont like it". Love of our
great country sure has gone to hell in a handbasket lately. Is it
time to renew the draft??? I think so.
Private first class Monkey reporting for duty sir!
I left for MEPS at 6:30am this morning, at just arrived home around 1:00am.
Guess who enlisted?
No one warned me about PT, much less the 80 year old man who ended up gouging my scrotum. I also wasn't told about the moon inspections either !
I did well on the ASVB, my lowest score was 117(MM) and the rest were in the 120's. My AFQT was 96 , hooyah! They didn't have the 97B position I wanted, so I took the Intelligence Linguist(98x) instead.
I enlisted for 5 years, 53 weeks of which is A-school (In Kalifornia), YIKES! I'm shipping out for basic October 30th.
Thanks for all of the advice.
I did get some perks I should mention.
The Montgomery GI Bill and a 15,000 signing bonus.
After I swore in I found out I will automatically be promoted to Specialist(E-4) after Basic(as a result of the MOS I chose).
DancesWithSheep,
You got me thinking, and I came to the decision to stick out my enlist regardless of what options were or were not offered. If my Top Secrete clearance does not go through, or I don't do well enough on my DLAB to continue as a Crypto Linguist Analyst, I've decided to stick out my enlist, scrubbing toilets, serving in infantry or... yes... even recruiting(Sorry Ids, couldn't resist)!
Well, I'm tired, I'll write more later.
Private Monkey
Don't worry about the bullet with your name on it, worry about the fragmentation grenade addressed 'To Occupant'.
Monkey, Good for you, the moon walk is somthing we just dont tell newbies
Dont ever feel bad about looking at the future. I had a uncle that was a canned fruit (army tanker) mustang officer. He told me before I enlisted that he could drop any bridge at 2000 meters, there just wasnt a whole lot of calling for that in the civilian world. If you KNEW that it was going to be a career, then go where then send ya. Since you dont, might as well try to do what you want to, if you like it then make a career out of it.
Those people who see nothing but grey areas, no black and white, are lost in the fog.
Your now on a course to become a member of a very small tight group of men & women who no matter what branch of military they have served in will always have respect for one another, and will always be there to help out a brother. I'm talking about "VETERANS". Some day you are going to be one too. Just remeber that when you see one marching in a parade, or giving poppies away on Veterans day out side a Wall-Mart, that they they blazed the trail before you. Always stop and give them your time. Always ask for their opinions. Hear what they have to say, take it and apply it to your life in the Military. You will be expected to carry on a mighty tradition, and when ever you see a flag flying, you will understand what I am talking about.
Now get some rest soldier, because your going to need all you can get!
Trinity +++
"Train up a child in the way he should go, even when he is old he will not depart from it."(Proverbs 22:6)
thesupermonkey--I just got out of the field and read this. Congratulations. You are about to go to one of the finest language intitutes in the country. Do you know what language you will be learning? I wish I had known about the linguist MOS before I enlisted. I pretty much just went in and said I wanted to be an MP so that is what I got. I didn't take the time to learn about what else was out there. Don't worry about it. My Motor Mechanics score was my lowest line score too (105). I've learned more about automobiles since I was in the Army than I did during my entire life. Check your email. If you didn't get what I sent you can you email me at idsman75@peoplepc.com ? I'm getting ready to hit the road to meet up with 13FISTER. I'll be back on Monday night to respond.
Comments
The only beef I have with any of the services is with the Navy and that only occurs on the first Saturday of every December when the Brave Ol' Army Team's gridiron granadiers make every attempt to beat the **** out of the squids!
GO ARMY! BEAT NAVY!
Edited by - idsman75 on 08/23/2002 12:51:49
The travel situation wasn't perfect perhaps, I spent an average of three years at each domestic assignment, and had two one year tours in Alaska, one in Japan.
The Navy is best for travel if you don't get sea sick and don't mind being away from the family for six months at a time.
There are no bad guns, only bad people.
"Don't mistake my honesty for weakness...
"To be prepared for War is one of the most
effectual means of preserving peace"-George Washington
http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/blarasvabscores.htm?iam=excite_1&terms=asvab
Edited by - idsman75 on 08/24/2002 21:32:05
"To be prepared for War is one of the most
effectual means of preserving peace"-George Washington
First of all, I didn't take the ASVB, I took a PRACTICE ASVB. The good news is that my practice test was a 94(out of 99) ! Monday morning my recruiter is taking me in for the real deal and all the physical stuff. I didn't pass by weight (should have been 203) but I DID pass body fat percentage, so that's good. My recruiter was really pushing my to sign Friday (and back out later if I needed too?) but I told him I wasn't signing anything until I was absolutely ready. He keeps talking about signing contracts Monday even though I've made it clear I won't consider it until I can speak with my boss (Wednesday). I decided 97B(Counter Intelligence Agent) is the MOS for me. I have several questions I'm hoping you guys can answer for me.
1. My chosen MOS requires a Top Secrete clearance. I understand this clearance may take several months to get(at which time I would already be in Basic Training, maybe out of it?). If my clearance does not get accepted, will I be able to drop out if no other MOS suits me? Does this need to be in my contract?
2. I want to attend college while I serve does this need to be in my contract?
3. I want Airborne, Ranger, and Air Assault training, however I'd like to remain in my current MOS is that possible? Should these schools be in my contract?
4. Should my bonus be in my contract? How much of a bonus should I expect?
5. I'm currently under a lease with my Apartment complex, does my entrance into the military service give me a loop hole out of my lease agreement(provided I give them enough notice), or is this dependant on the lease agreement?
6. My recruiter told me he could get me E-2 before Basic if we did all of the formation training and pt requirements before hand, should this be in my contract?
7. My recruiter said my 2 years of Vocational School (During High school) would automatically qualify me for E-3, should this be in my contract? Since I would automatically qualify for E-3, would I also get a promotion for the formation and pt requirements (E-4)?
Thanks,
Adam
Don't worry about the bullet with your name on it, worry about the fragmentation grenade addressed 'To Occupant'.
Good luck, its somthing you can remember for the rest of your life.
And as a former landlord, if there is no clause in your lease, you are obligated to pay it for the duration of the contract. The armed forces frown deeply on deadbeats, so dont think you can blow him off. With 1 phone call, your wages would be garnished and bye bye TS clearance.
Those people who see nothing but grey areas, no black and white, are lost in the fog.
Edited by - Varmintmist on 08/25/2002 01:18:32
You really suck.
Why does man kill? He kills for food. But not only for food; frequently, he must have a beverage.
1. My chosen MOS requires a Top Secrete clearance. I understand this clearance may take several months to get(at which time I would already be in Basic Training, maybe out of it?). If my clearance does not get accepted, will I be able to drop out if no other MOS suits me? Does this need to be in my contract?
--I don't know about that one. The Top Secret Clearance takes awhile to get. This usually isn't finished before Basic Training is over. Unless you have something criminal in your background or have had offenses that people know about (i.e. "drugs") that were undiscovered by law enforcement I wouldn't worry about it.
2. I want to attend college while I serve does this need to be in my contract?
--They can't gurantee college while you serve. That is something that you have to take advantage of on your off-time. If it is a priority for you then you will be able to accomplish it. They can only guarantee your MOS, your duty station (sometimes), bonuses, special schools in addition to your MOS(like Airborne school), and the GI Bill/Army College Fund.
3. I want Airborne, Ranger, and Air Assault training, however I'd like to remain in my current MOS is that possible? Should these schools be in my contract?
--I am 99.99% sure that you won't go to Ranger school if you are in the Military Intelligence Field. If you are interested in intelligence and Spec Ops then go MI first and use that as a springboard to go into the Special Forces. Anyone who is qualified medically/psychologically/physically for Special Forces can do that regardless of their MOS. Then you will get a whole HOST of other schools in addition to that such as Airborne, Air Assault, SERE (Survival Evasion Resistance Escape) and many others. They often train with Delta Force and sometimes SAS.
4. Should my bonus be in my contract? How much of a bonus should I expect?
--I can't tell you how much of a bonus to expect. It all depends on the current need for the MOS that you seek. If they only need one or two people to fill slots for the MOS you desire then there probably won't be a bonus. There is almost always a HUGE bonus (8K - 15K) for Military Intelligence Linguists. Yes, the bonus WILL be in your contract. You will receive a $7K payment towards that bonus when you arrive at your first duty station and the remainder will be paid in equal increments every year on the anniversary of your enlistment until the end of your first enlistment contract. This is to prevent problems with brand new soldiers showing up at their first duty station, collecting a huge bonus and then using it to go AWOL.
5. I'm currently under a lease with my Apartment complex, does my entrance into the military service give me a loop hole out of my lease agreement(provided I give them enough notice), or is this dependant on the lease agreement?
--I am not a lawyer so don't hold my feet to the fire on this one. Yes, this does provide you with a loophole if you enlist. Your landlord is required by law to let you out of yoru lease if you enlist. Just let him know immediately after you sign your contract. When that happens you will know exactly when you will be shipping out for Basic Training. When you arrive at your first duty station, get a copy of the "Military Clause" from your chain-of-command and insist that all future landlords include that clause in the lease agreement before you sign it. Then take that lease agreement to JAG (the Army lawyers) and have them review it before you sign it to ensure that you aren't getting screwed. Almost all landlords around a military installation will be soldier-friendly. Those that are not get put on a list of places where it is prohibited for service-members to live. Soldiers actually have a lawful legally-binding order not to rent from certain landlords. Landlords HATE the idea of being put on this list so they will almost always work with you when it comes to your lease agreement.
6. My recruiter told me he could get me E-2 before Basic if we did all of the formation training and pt requirements before hand, should this be in my contract?
7. My recruiter said my 2 years of Vocational School (During High school) would automatically qualify me for E-3, should this be in my contract? Since I would automatically qualify for E-3, would I also get a promotion for the formation and pt requirements (E-4)?
--I am going to combine my answer to questions 6 & 7. If your Vocational School will get you E-3 then that is as high as you will go with promotions before you get to basic training. This WILL be in your contract. The day you report to basic training you will be receiving E-3 pay. Unless you have a college degree you will not get an E-4 promotion before you go to Basic Training. Your recruiter is required to make every attempt to get you to attend these monthly functions in order to prepare you for Basic Training. He is failing the Army and the Drill Sergeants if he doesn't. Do yourself a favor and attend even though there is no financial reward for you for doing so. If your education level can get you E-3 then that is as high as you will go. Nothing else will get you beyond E-3 before you leave for Basic Training. You will have E-3 given to you at MEPS the day you enlist and it will be in your contract. I never tell anyone that they will get promoted on the basis of prior education beyond a normal high school diploma unless I have the documentation for that education in my hand. I only disclose that information AFTER I have verified all additional education transcripts with the Army Regulation that governs it.
My observations of the Army(10th Mountain Division) in Somalia was that they seemed incapable of independent thought and action. I had adopted a young USMC E-6 and his 5 or 6 marines who had been left behind by the Corps at the fuel farm near Green Beach at the AirPort. When it came time for those Marines to be relieved by a COMPANY of soldiers to run the fuel farm he couldn't get the Army Captain and his 130 soldiers to relieve them. With absolutely no authority at all I ordered the Captain to get off his * and relieve the Marines so they could get on the big white bird and fly home. I lost a lot of respect for the Army that day. The timid behavior of those soldiers renewed the respect I have for Marines and sailors and their ability to act decisively and independently without adult supervision. Maybe what I saw was an aberration and not characteristic of the Army as a whole...but it's what you see that makes an impression. I've NEVER seen a timid Marine! Beach
Who the F--- do YOU think you are coming down on Supermonkey like that.Just because he's seriously considering joining the military because his job is about to end.Personally I think he's making a great decision for himself and for the future of his family when the time is right.
I did not ever serve in any branch of the military.I do respect those who have and those who have chosen to do so.Many of my friends at work are ex-vets,most of whom are Vietnam vets.
Those didn't have a choice if they went or not.They had to go,and several of them were wounded and saw guys killed before their eyes.
Do you really think that someone goes into any branch of the service just for grins,I seriously doubt it.Knowing that at anytime you might be called upon to fight for your country regardless of your or position is sure as Hell not a decision to made lightly to say the least.
I guess you'd rather see someone lose their job and draw welfare or
unemployment and suck on the government's hind tit instead of going out and trying to make a better life for themselves,regardless of what it is they do.
Granted,some folks join up just for a so called free ride,and that is a shame I agree,but why don't you go back and reread the postings made by Supermonkey regarding all of this.
Sounds to me like he knows what he wants and is going in headfirst
but with his eyes wide open nonetheless.Sure as hell doesn't sound like greed to me.
Wake up Man and take look around!!
Mopar
You're probably right. However I've heard the horror stories of young men and women being thoroughly screwed over by their recruiters. I don't intend to be one of them. In all honestly, love for my country IS NOT my only motivation. I want adventure, training, travel, college, and trial by fire. I'm not doing it for the money, as a DBA I'm already making more than I ever will in the Army. If the army is handing out 50 thousand dollars in college money and signing bonuses, I'll be in line to receive it. I'm sorry if I lose your respect because of that.
Idsman,
There was a lot of information I didn't have for my recruiter during the interview. He said exactness didn't matter much, and we guessed at a lot of dates, times etc. Will this hurt my chances at a Top Secrete clearance?
Thanks for the help guys,
Adam
Don't worry about the bullet with your name on it, worry about the fragmentation grenade addressed 'To Occupant'.
I joined the Marine Corps the day after high school. I just assumed all Marines were grunts. I didn't know or care about signing bonuses, college tuition reimbursements or ironclad outs to my enlistment if things didn't go as planned. I wanted only to serve my country in what I believed was the best branch of service. That's all. That was 1962. I was seventeen. I served six years active, including 1 1/2 tours in Vietnam.
I realize that that was another time, and that everyone needs to look out for his own--more so at twenty-two probably than at seventeen. And I'm not saying that with SpiderMonkey "what's in it for me?" is everything; I'm saying it seems to be the only thing.
Why does man kill? He kills for food. But not only for food; frequently, he must have a beverage.
As far as the "independent thought" stereotypye is concerned, don't be concerned. It's a stereotype. I've put a few fat Marines in the Army right after they got out of the Marine Corps. The last one was the brother of an old college roommate of mine. He was still mama's boy.
okay,perhaps I went off on you unfairly.Not knowing your the feelings you just mentioned in your last post.Now I see where you're
coming from.Since you served in the Marines,I guess it's only natural to keep track of the trends regarding new recruits and even question the reasons why they sign on to start with.
I thank you for your service in 'Nam and elsewhere,and apologize for taking a chunk out of your backside earlier today.
I do agree with you that a person has a bit more at stake at age 22
than they might at 17 and I think ol' Monkey is taking a great step
towards his future.
No hard Feelings Amigo
Sincerely
mopar
None taken, amigo.
Why does man kill? He kills for food. But not only for food; frequently, he must have a beverage.
A Private's job is to do what he is told. A Sergeant's job is to ensure that the Privates are doing what they are told to do so that the overall accomplishment of the mission is achieved. Someone who has never served does not have the same perspective as someone who has served. TheSuperMonkey is behaving in a manner that most individuals behave before they enlist. As he continues to serve, thesupermonkey will progress (in all likelihood) towards the perspective that you have. I'm sure thesupermonkey has the right mindset. He's just thinking about the future. 20 years from now that kid out in the middle of nowhere who has no exposure to the military may see one of two different things. He could see thesupermonkey sitting on a street corner homeless and drinking out of a paperbag wearing pins and buttons denoting that he served his country. That same kid could see thesupermonkey driving by in a Cadillac because he was wise and took advantage of his opportunities. Which example do you think will make for the better living and breathing recruiting poster? At least 90% of today's military is comprised of people that were approached by recruiters--not people who walked into a recruiting station. We can sit and complain about the sad state of affairs but that will not ensure a ready force.
During the early 90's NCO's and officers in the U.S. Army sat and griped about "The Pepsi Generation" who were then Privates who were "doomed to fail" America. In their opinion, the military was sure to fall flat on its face due to "The Pepsi Generation". The same was said about "Generation X". Now there are Generation X-ers who are NCO's in today's military kicking butt and getting the job done in places like Bosnia, Kosovo, Afghanistan and other places like that.
Do not be discouraged DancesWithWolves. TheSuperMonkey will be in good hands. The Corps of Non-Commissioned Officers will make sure of that.
P.S. Thank you for your service. When I see monuments and plaques denoting the selfless service of those that have gone before me, I often feel a slight chill run down my spine when I realize that I am treading where men like you have trod.
I came back from Vietnam in June of 1968 and started UC Berkeley that same Fall. It was like going from one planet to another. I remember once hitchhiking on University Avenue in the rain and being picked up by a young soldier in uniform on leave, this despite my long hair and beard. I noticed him looking at the old field jacket I always wore, so after we rode a ways I told him I had been a Marine in Vietnam. I'll never forget what he said as he dropped me off; few words have touched me near as much before or since:
"Thank you for coming home."
Why does man kill? He kills for food. But not only for food; frequently, he must have a beverage.
Whatever you decide, GOOD LUCK. Since you are over 20 and have lived a little, if you feel you are ready, do it. If the things that help you decide are what you can use later in life, get them, if they were not for the taking, they would not be there. If I could do things different, when I was 19, I would have said to my future wife, wait for me, I need to do this. I didn't, and now I am over thirty, over weight and have four children and a wife to support, and NOW is when I am seriously considering signing up. Info and emails are free from recruiters and proliferous. I don't need the money, I don't need the bonus', I just have a sense that something is incomplete in my life. I know what it is. It is never having served my country. Don't wait until it is too late (or almost too late with even more factors to have to weigh). Good luck with your decision.
twins
agree with you. I enlisted in the army in '43, along with my
only brother who went into the Air Corps as a radio gunner. My dad
wasnt allowed to enlist, even though a WW 1 Vet. He had to wait and
be drafted at his request. (he once again was wounded in France and came home on a hospital ship). All of us served in the ETO. I was
a 3rd Inf Div dogface in Europe. No contracts, no set term, just for the duration of the war plus 6 months. And no way out.
What ever happened to the JFK saying "ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country". Guess that in this day and age it is "old fashioned". Now, it seems to be, "how much money do I get out of it" or "my lawyer will get me out of the "contract" if it dont go my way or I dont like it". Love of our
great country sure has gone to hell in a handbasket lately. Is it
time to renew the draft??? I think so.
I left for MEPS at 6:30am this morning, at just arrived home around 1:00am.
Guess who enlisted?
No one warned me about PT, much less the 80 year old man who ended up gouging my scrotum. I also wasn't told about the moon inspections either !
I did well on the ASVB, my lowest score was 117(MM) and the rest were in the 120's. My AFQT was 96 , hooyah! They didn't have the 97B position I wanted, so I took the Intelligence Linguist(98x) instead.
I enlisted for 5 years, 53 weeks of which is A-school (In Kalifornia), YIKES! I'm shipping out for basic October 30th.
Thanks for all of the advice.
I did get some perks I should mention.
The Montgomery GI Bill and a 15,000 signing bonus.
After I swore in I found out I will automatically be promoted to Specialist(E-4) after Basic(as a result of the MOS I chose).
DancesWithSheep,
You got me thinking, and I came to the decision to stick out my enlist regardless of what options were or were not offered. If my Top Secrete clearance does not go through, or I don't do well enough on my DLAB to continue as a Crypto Linguist Analyst, I've decided to stick out my enlist, scrubbing toilets, serving in infantry or... yes... even recruiting(Sorry Ids, couldn't resist)!
Well, I'm tired, I'll write more later.
Private Monkey
Don't worry about the bullet with your name on it, worry about the fragmentation grenade addressed 'To Occupant'.
ALL THE BEST TO YOU
Why does man kill? He kills for food. But not only for food; frequently, he must have a beverage.
Dont ever feel bad about looking at the future. I had a uncle that was a canned fruit (army tanker) mustang officer. He told me before I enlisted that he could drop any bridge at 2000 meters, there just wasnt a whole lot of calling for that in the civilian world. If you KNEW that it was going to be a career, then go where then send ya. Since you dont, might as well try to do what you want to, if you like it then make a career out of it.
Those people who see nothing but grey areas, no black and white, are lost in the fog.
Glad things went all right for you.
Hey Danceswithsheep,I thought your story was very moving.Thank You!
How are you bud?!
Mighty fine. I'll tell you about my lime green '71 Demon 340 sometime.
Why does man kill? He kills for food. But not only for food; frequently, he must have a beverage.
Your now on a course to become a member of a very small tight group of men & women who no matter what branch of military they have served in will always have respect for one another, and will always be there to help out a brother. I'm talking about "VETERANS". Some day you are going to be one too. Just remeber that when you see one marching in a parade, or giving poppies away on Veterans day out side a Wall-Mart, that they they blazed the trail before you. Always stop and give them your time. Always ask for their opinions. Hear what they have to say, take it and apply it to your life in the Military. You will be expected to carry on a mighty tradition, and when ever you see a flag flying, you will understand what I am talking about.
Now get some rest soldier, because your going to need all you can get!
Trinity +++
"Train up a child in the way he should go, even when he is old he will not depart from it."(Proverbs 22:6)