Point Restrictions--Your Thoughts

idsman75

On my way back from Orlando I picked up a magazine (can't remember which one) and read an article about "point restrictions". The article is about a movement in Pennsylvania to restrict hunters to deer with a minimum of six points. What are your thoughts on the subject?

4wheeler

We have hunting club at work and use the 6 point or better restriction during gun season,been doing this for three seasons. I have not seen an improvement in the size of deer yet. The problem could be when the deer roam off company property,there is no restriction and they end up in someones freezer. If restriction was state wide,should get better quaility racks but in states with a large deer herd then this could cause a problem with more damaged crops,accidents with cars,etc.

"It was like that when I got here".

Big Sky Redneck

IDS, this is a very sore subject with some of us here, it seems that somebody wants to turn PA into a trophy buck state, it is all about greed. They have wrecked our traditional hunting in this state in order for more money, they will lose hunters and money over this, now in the middle of archery season we will have rambos with their 30-06s runing around ruining the hunt for the archers. Here is how I feel about the PA game commission and their "new rules",
^%$@#^%!$#%^$#%!#%$!%^#$!#%$~%^$#%^$#^~%#$%^#$%^#$$~@%^#$%^!#%^#$@*(&%@)$(&%~@#($^(*#^*(#&$(@#*&%^$&(#^%$@#&*(&(@#^$%$&(2364
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(#^%&^%#$*(~^~#*()!@$(&()!@&R#^%~@*(#%^$&*()%#$*&^%!()@#&$~!^%&*)@$%^!@#)4
~@#*(&$#$*&$&*^%(&*$^*(&*$&^(*@*(&@$*(&(*&^*(%^$&*(^%(!@)$%($*^#()^$(_!
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)&*(!#*(&@#%^*&@#%^@$&*^@$(!%&^&!!!

And I mean every word of that!!!

twins

I hunt for meat and would never hunt for rack, you can't eat it so who cares.

While I have never shot one so small and would not since I hunt for meat, I have heard that deer just out of their spots are the best eating/tasting.

will270win

Some deer will be "forkhorns"(4 points) forever. It is imperative to take those jokers out before they pass on their genes. This is indeed a stupid rule to expect hunters only to take deer with 6 or more points. Try tellin' a youngun not to shoot a spike. Enough of everything survives the seasons. Just let things be is what I say. Doe management will increase you buck quality.


~Secret Select Society Of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets~

pickenup

Here in Colorado we have had point restrictions on deer and elk (off and on) for years. They (fish and game) did not give us a choice.P.S. If you drink enough Jack Daniels, Wild Turkey, or whatever, to make 2 points turn into 4 points, don't tell the game warden the truth. No matter how much you want it to be, Alcohol is not a Permanent antler growing compound.(it is just a joke, our hunting party never drank and hunted. Any drinking was done at camp, at the end of the day, when all guns were put away.)

If I knew then, what I know now.

Knifecollector

Here in North Carolina we have no antler restrictions. I am a meat hunter so I usually take a doe. It has only been about 10 years ago we were only able to kill one doe per year, the very last day of firearms season. Most everyone where I live think a doe is sacred and should not be killed. They had rather kill a yearling button buck than a doe. I would say the buck to doe ratio is about 15 does to 1 buck here in my home county. Alot of people hunt all season without seeing a buck with over 4 points. That is because most are killed as spikes or 4 pointers. The new regulations allow us to harvest 5 deer per year, one of which must be a buck. Does can be harvested any time during deer season. I would probably agree to a minimum 4 point rule for a couple of years to see what would happen with the quality of bucks. I believe some people would have to harvest a doe under these conditions and that would be benefit deer hunting as a whole.

4GodandCountry

The problem with 6 points or higher type of thinking is that it will cause overpopulation of deer herds, keep genetically inferior deer from being exterminated, allow inferior deer to breed and cause more starvation and spreading of disease. If you had a situation where there werent very many deer it would help increase herd size but I doubt this is the case in Pa. If they wanted to increase antler sizes they should open a doe season and during buck season limit the rack sizes to six or less for a few years. This would create an atmosphere where the larger dominent bucks could graze without pressure from an overpopulated habitat and allow the stronger bucks to breed.

When Clinton left office they gave him a 21 gun salute. Its a damn shame they all missed....

YankeeClipper

My opinion: Does the term "Can of Worms" ring a bell?

Helping keep America free: One gun at a time.

nelchris

We have alot of hunting land in wisconsin that is buck managment 8 point or better but does are taken to ajust herd also if a deer has a odd ball rack it has to be culled.if enough land owner do it the deer get big.But we will aways have poeple that kill anything if its brown its down

TrinityScrimshaw

I heard that it was favored by a majority of sportsmen in PA. I was in attendance a few years ago at a New York State Conservation Council meeting in Albany NY, when this topic (QDM) was talked about in great length. Over all I like it, but if one hunter doesn't want to do it, who could make him? I guess that was answered by passing a law. The problem here is that it is a trophy hunting law. Not everone who hunts is out for a trophy. What about the young first time deer hunter, who will now have to pass up that spike buck? What about those bucks with messed up antlers? The ones that are taken out of the heard on those big game farms will be alowed to grow, and spread their bad genes through the heard. If several land owners want to get together and make it a policy on their private tracks of land, then I'm all for it. It will work I'm sure, but I can't see it being a law on public land. Now it's getting like bass fishing. Woops, plug that hole, and toss that one back Billy-Bob it doesn't have enough horns. There is no catch & release with fireamrms! There is also a trend showing up where (QDM) federations & club organizations are being started. This done only for the support & lobbing power.

Trinity+++

"Train up a child in the way he should go, even when he is old he will not depart from it."(Proverbs 22:6)

gunpaq

The PA Game Commission is taloring "HUNTING" in Pennsylvania to suit the wealthy guys. Just wait until our next governor, "I won't take your deer guns" Ed Rendell, works us over with a three round limit, ammo taxes ("What's a couple cents a bullet going to hurt") and other fees for gun/hunting related items. Oh yes, I forgot to mention the multi-use approach to the PA Gamelands since everyone must have equal access all the time since hunters represent a very small portion of the population. This year I am ordering a safari hunting outfit from Cabellas and hiring a guide, gun bearer, and a spotter to go deer hunting in our great Keystone Safari Club.

Pack slow, fall stable, pull high, hit dead center.

salzo

I heard that it was favored by a majority of sportsmen in PA.



Trinity- Where did you hear that from? Probably the PA game commission. It reminds me of the "should sunday hunting be allowed in PA" topic. The PA game commission "game news" magazine periodically prints letters from hunters who are opposed to Sunday hunting. They will have nine letters from those against, and if lucky, one letter PRO sunday hunting. It is propoganda at its finest. Every hunter I know wants Sunday hunting, yet the commission insists that a vast majority of hunters do not want Sunday hunting.
I find this Gary Alt propoganda with respect to antler requirements insane.
2 years ago I got a buck that was the size of a cow. Biggest deer I ever got. He had some genetic "deficiency", cause he had a pitiful rack, with one point on one side, and 2 hideous points on the other. Gary Alt would say "YOU CANT SHOOT THAT DEER", but that was the best buck I ever got(freezer volume-which is what matters to me), notwithstanding his pitiful rack.
I am so disgusted with the "new way" the game commission is going. I am annoyed about the new "any muzzleloader will do" season, the restrictions on Coyote hunters(though I do not hunt coyote), and the crossbow use in special regs areas).
I am at the point, where I am seriously considering NOT getting a PA license next year. Which I am sure wont bother the game commission in the slightest, 'cause they want trophy hunters.
I do most of my hunting in New York anyway, so perhaps the game commission wont get my $50 some odd dollars thisa year.



"The powers delegated by the proposed constitution to the federal governmentare few and defined, and will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace negotiation, and foreign commerce"
-James Madison

Gordian Blade

I have a financial interest in this. My wife is part-owner of some timberland in PA. The overpopulation of deer is making it hard for the new trees to get a start. Timberland owners around there have tried various approaches, none really successful. Even high fences don't work, because poachers make holes in the fences big enough for the deer to get through. As far as I'm concerned, they should be thinned out to the greatest extent possible. I mean the deer. Maybe I mean the poachers too.

gunpaq

Salzo, you can't fight them so just join them. Come on over like I did, it is easy to do. Just order that safari jacket and hat and send your license money to join the Keystone Safari Club. Just joking around. A lot of the new stuff that the Game Commission is pushing does make sense but the approach, application and end result will ultimately not in any significant manner be an improvement for Joe Blow, the working man, hunter. The muzzleloader and crossbow/archery issue is a sore spot as the purity is being lost to what I consider to be the wealthy "lazy" hunters and manufacturing/marketing interests with political pull.

Pack slow, fall stable, pull high, hit dead center.

Tailgunner1954

IMHO (and we have the same problems here in MI, over population, B/D ratio and some desease) is that NO bucks should be taken for 1 year and in the second year take only 5 points or SMALLER (the culls). Than look at how the herd is doing in the 3rd year, and adjust to suit the herd.
You guys that think your personal gonads are measured by the size of the horns you take make me laugh

---

Some guys like a mag full of lead, I still prefer one round to the head.

Big Sky Redneck

I for one could care less about horns size. I have shot one big buck in 19 years of hunting, the largest to it was a tiny scrub 5 point. I don't care how big it is, I have even shot unicorns before. I don't care. sure I would love to get another wall hanger, bigger than the one I have but I will not go out of my way to get it. If I see anything that resembles horns between the ears, it's dead.

salzo

Horns??? Geez, Ive shot them when they still had spots.

"The powers delegated by the proposed constitution to the federal governmentare few and defined, and will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace negotiation, and foreign commerce"
-James Madison

JustC

I boiled the crap out of one of them racks, ........still couldn't get it down. Deer herd management is understood more by the hunters than some of the law makers. Just leave it up to us, we'll take care of it. Little scrub bucks have gotta go!!

A great rifle with a junk scope,....is junk.

BT99

Personally I think this was way overdo. Perhaps now the bucks can
live long enough to grow some decent antlers. For years the group I hunt with had a self imposed "horn restriction", no spikes or fork
horns. I just can't see what the big deal is with shooting a "spike
buck" other that being able to say "I got a buck".

Big Sky Redneck

Can't eat the horns dude. I'll shoot that spike and be chowin on steaks and burgers while you are still huntin for the buck of a lifetime. I look for meat, not horns. If all this crap passes I will have to revert back to my old ways of huntin. If I got three tags for this county, I'm fillin those three tags. Not fillin two and prayin for something bigger than a spike.

if they want to have trophy managment areas fine, do it state wide and it will never work. I don't care what restrictions is placed on the bucks, I'm a hillbilly redneckin backwoods hick, and I could care less about trophy bucks. I guess I will have to break out that old .300 wtby, load it with 125 grain balistic tips and go for head shots, "sorry Mr. Warden, the horns got blown off by the shot to the head."

varmit hunter

Come on down to Texas. The checkbook hunting capital. Here you pay for them by the point.

The most important things, Are not things.

COONASS

I hunt six leases in three states..........One lease we shoot four points (both sides added) or better and every buck after your first kill has to be bigger(more points) than the last one........Since we started that five years ago , we have more mature (2 1/2 year olds)
bucks on the place now...............another is 8 point or better with one buck of choice, strictly bow hunting only.......the rest is what the law says...........

coonass

We Live in a World of Give And Take, But A Lot Of People Won't Give What it Takes.

idsman75

I understand that there are several types of hunters out there. Some are trophy hunters and some are meat hunters. I do not pass judgement on either. However, I have only pursued deer a few times in my life and have not yet been successful. I will say this much though. My first deer will not be a spiker. Walking away with an empty tag will make the next seasons harvest even sweeter for me.

William81

Idsman hit it on the head. I hunt mainly for meat now. When I was younger, I was more interested in another wall hanger. I have limited myself to an eight pointer or better and it would have to rival the size of the 10 pointer I shot 12 years ago. I have only shot one other large buck since then, a wide 9 pointer. Last year I managed to miss a B&C sized buck. I hope that by letting the numourous 4-8 pointers I have seen each year that a couple of real trophy bucks will emerge from the herd in the future...Until that time, I will shoot does and wait...

Guns only have two enemies: Rust and Liberals....

gunphreak

Here in NW Ohio, there are tons of does here. Hell, I see one or more of them on my way home from work almost every night, and have drilled one and had six near misses. These beasts are everywhere, I swear. Here's the sucky part. Ohio is too densely populated so we can only hunt with short-range weapons like shotguns, high caliber pistols, and bows/crossbows. They don't like rifles here.

Thank God they don't have point restrictions.....

But you know, last year someone bagged a 39 point deer in this state!!!!

Death to Tyrants!!!

-Gunphreak

gunpaq

The big bucks have always been in Pennsylvania. Maybe the problem today is that some hunters are too lazy to hunt them. All the cool accessories, tree stands, heated shooting blinds, and expensive rifles, motels and camp memberships will not get you a nice buck. "Man I did not see anything with horns worth shooting, the Game Commission should do something about it". That trophy spring gobbler is not going to waive a flag and yell "Over here, take aim" and neither will that trophy buck. In order to get a nice buck during the regular buck season one may have to get wet and cold, brave the elements, traverse hill and dale, negotiate blowdowns and briar patches, waddle through swamps and streams, be very patient and observant of natural sign, and spend more time in the field than the first day of buck season. Where is the challenge if the majority of hunters will be guaranteed a buck?. Sure there are a lot of small racks in PA but there are a lot of big racked bucks that die of old age too.

Pack slow, fall stable, pull high, hit dead center.

Varmintmist

Gunpac is dead on, the deer are there, YOU gotta look for them. If they were around every corner they wouldnt be trophys would they?

Its a bunch of money grubbing BS, period.

They have screwed up the seasons and raised the prices, by like 150% for a bow stamp if I remember? 100+% for bear, 30% for the main tag, and I think you get to pay for turkey now to, not sure oin the last.

They say they want to let the little deer get bigger, ok, even # tags get to shoot a buck, odd get a doe, 2 year tag, switch next year.

But that is BS any way, they say they want the doe population down, then take away the unisex shooting for the archers and muzzeloaders. Put a kid and old folks shootem up RIGHT DURING THE RUT (special season for deer) The muzzloader season during rut is somthing they should have done long ago, should stay restricted to roundball flintlock tho.

Those people who see nothing but grey areas, no black and white, are lost in the fog.

salzo

Varmintist- The bow stamp actually went up more than 200%. Before the most recent increase, bow stamps were $5. Now the stamp is $16. When they did the increase, I thought they were going to give us another buck tag. Nope. They increased the price, and shortened the season a bit.

"The powers delegated by the proposed constitution to the federal governmentare few and defined, and will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace negotiation, and foreign commerce"
-James Madison

JustC

They may be a$$holes about firearm laws in MD, but here on the eastern shore, we can take 2 whitetail buck and 2whitetail doe (if harvested in order) and the same number of SIKA deer for each season. That adds up to one heck of a lot of deer per hunting license. Figure that for Bow, Muzzle loader, and rifle season. they at least let the hunters do their part to help control the herds.

A great rifle with a junk scope,....is junk.

Big Sky Redneck

There was talk about making us purchase turkey tags/stamps a couple years ago but that never passed, that started when the Fish Com made us get trout stamps.

Archery season is ruined as far as I'm concerned. I started archery huntin to get away from the gun hunters, now the gun hunters get to ruin it for us. Muzzleloader I think should have stayed the way it was and no fancy guns, old flinters is the way is should be.

Hey Salzo, on a slow day archery huntin is it now legal to tag hunters instead of a deer? And if we tag a hunter instead of a deer does it affect our license?

salzo

I think if the hunter is carrying an in line or cap lock, they are fair game.

"The powers delegated by the proposed constitution to the federal governmentare few and defined, and will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace negotiation, and foreign commerce"
-James Madison

4GodandCountry

Divide and conquer, the liberal gun grabber yelled!
They will attempt anything to get hunters at odds with one another. Dont be a liberal, dont force your opinions and views down peoples throats. If you want to trophy hunt, thats fine, just do it on your own property. Together we stand devided we fall, ever hear that before? Ive heard people who only bow hunt critisize rifle and muzzleloading hunters. Ive heard people who shoot but dont hunt critisize hunters. Why on gods green earth do so many people think they have the right to decide what is best for everyone else? Mind your own damn buisness and leave everyone else the hell alone. State your opinion, some will agree, some not, but dont try to force your views on others. Respect freedom, don't harness it. .

When Clinton left office they gave him a 21 gun salute. Its a damn shame they all missed....

Big Sky Redneck

Well, PA had the seasons right before, Archery in the fall, Rifle after Thanksgiving for 2 weeks then 3 days of doe blastin, Muzzleloader was late season. There was nothing wrong with that at all. Now comes Gary Alt, he says, "the archers don't kill enough deer in the fall, let's put the muzzleloaders out there with them, who cares about the archers? Now lets put the seniors and kids out with the archers and really mess up their huntin with rifles, they don't kill enough remember, now since the Muzzloaders don't have a high kill ratio, let's give them the now toys and scrap traditional huntin in PA, infact let's ruin huntin for those who enjoy it and try to make some money off of this, let's turn the whole state into a trophy state, we can sell more tags that way. Yeah, who cares about the hunters and what they want, I have an agenda to fill. I need to get those does shot off to get the insurance companies off my butt, so lets declare war on the does, I'm sure if we let them slaughter the does they will not gripe about the changes to the seasons."

Well hey, SCREW YOU GARY ALT!

4Godandcountry, things was great untill he came along, why bother archery hunting anymore? Archery was supposed to be a way to hunt deer in peace, undisturbed deer to make for a great hunt. Now them things are going to be jumpy all season long. Now instead of sittin in a tree watchin a deer sneakin along a trail comming to check out the wee wee you put out for him, he is running full bore from some dude with a rifle or muzzleloader. As far as the inlines, why do you hunt Muzzleloader? You may as well use a rifle or a sluggun. an inline is not a true traditional arm, if you want to use an inline fine, do it but use it in regular season, not during traditional hunts!



Edited by - 7mm nut on 06/18/2002 12:20:10

salzo

Pennsylvania has a flintlock season, which means you can use flintlocks during that season. Which means no in lines or cap locks.
Pennsylvania has a bow hunting season, which should mean, bows only. Which should mean, no flintlocks, no in lines, no cap locks, no shot guns, no rifles.
Pennsylvania also has a general season, which is commonly refered to as "rifle season". During rifle season, you can use a rifle, a shot gun, an in line, a flintlock, a cap lock, a bow, a pistol, etc, etc,.
During that season, use whatever you want.
During the special seasons, use only those tools which are designated for that season. In my opinion, lets leave the seasons alone, and lets stop trying to add new hunting arms to the equation. Thats my opinion, I would like to keep things the way they were, and Ill be damned if I am going to sit here and say "well lets not be so divisive, lets stick together, hunters of the world unite, and have a free for all during special seasons".

"The powers delegated by the proposed constitution to the federal governmentare few and defined, and will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace negotiation, and foreign commerce"
-James Madison

gunpaq

Everybody quit your complaining! Like I said if you can't beat them join them. Come on it is easy to do just placed that order for a fine safari hunting outfit and send off a $100 bucks for licenses, stamps, permits, and tags to the Game Commission for your annual membership in the Keystone Safari Club. Just joking about a sad situation in our fine state. Remember when PA was a unique place to live and hunt. It seems that the Game Commission is saying, "Well everyone else is doing it, so why can't we". Remember when you said that to your parents and they said, "If everybody else were jumping off a cliff would you jump also?". We are in very real danger of losing beloved hunting traditions and use of our treasured Game Lands to the multi-use corporate interests.

Pack slow, fall stable, pull high, hit dead center.

Varmintmist

But 7MM, they REALLY dont want to kill doe, if they did then the bow season would be unisex again. And for the price of the bow stamp you would get a statewide doe tag. Havent bought a bow stamp in 4 years now, dont think Im going to bother with a licsense this year either, just go to camp and drink a few.

Those people who see nothing but grey areas, no black and white, are lost in the fog.

Big Sky Redneck

Bow season is still unsex, but when they bring the gun hunters into the season we can only shoot one or the other, I forget which it is. I think its bullcrap, I hunt archery for a reason, not to have full blown gun drives going on in the middle of it.

Varmintmist

Its not unisex, you need a doe premit now, that was a new addition about 10 years ago

Those people who see nothing but grey areas, no black and white, are lost in the fog.

Big Sky Redneck

Yes, you have to have the tag, you can shoot buck or doe except when the "special season" rolls in for the dingbats as long as you have the right tag.

4GodandCountry

They want to do what? Put gun season and bow season at the same time? Are you kidding? Now that is a serious change that I would be pissed about. It would place too many people in the woods at one time I would think. Also, at least in my state, bow hunters are allowed to dress in full cammo, wheras rifle hunters must where blaze orange. The combining of the two would probably force bow hunters to have to wear blaze or place them at risk of being shot. I feel for you, I hope the idiots stay away from my neck of the woods...

When Clinton left office they gave him a 21 gun salute. Its a damn shame they all missed....