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KIMBER VS SPRINFIELD,HELP!

SUBMARINERSUBMARINER Member Posts: 1,362 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited June 2002 in General Discussion
I AM NOW OFFICIALY SAVING UP FOR A 1911 STYLE .45.I WAS PRETTY SET ON A KIMBER BUT I WAS TALKING TO SEVERAL AT THE GUNSHOW TODAY AND THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO LOVE THEIR SPRINFIELDS.THE ONLY DRAWBACK THAT SEEMED TO BE CONSISTENT WAS THAT SPRNFLD HAS SHARP EDGES.I CAN GET A MUCH NICER LOOKING GUN FOR THE MONEY WITH A SPRNFLD BUT LOOKS ARE NOT EVERYTHING.I WAS JUST WONDERING ABOUT A "LOADED SPRNGFLD AGAINT A KIMBER CLASSIC,THE PRICE IS ABOUT 150 TO 200 MORE FOR THE KIMBER IM JUST WONDERING WHAT DO I GET FOR THE EXTRA CASH??IF ITS JUST A MATTER OF THE SPRNGFLD NEEDS TO BE SHOT300 ROUNDS B4 ITS COMPLETELY RELIABLE THEN I GOT NO PROBLEM WITH THAT BUT IS THERE THAT MUCH OF A QUALITY DIFFERENCE AFTER IT IS BROKEN IN??ANY INPUT IS APRECIATED BUT I WOULD LOVE TO HEAR FROM THOSE OF YOU THAT HAVE OWNED OR SHOT BOTH

SUBMARINE SAILOR,TRUCK DRIVER,NE'ER DO WELL, INSTIGATOR,AND RUSTY WALLACE FAN

Comments

  • Evil ATFEvil ATF Member Posts: 1,195 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I've shot Kimbers enough to know that the Springfield "Loaded" Compact Lightweight is the 1911 for me.

    You get more features for a lot less cash with the Springfield's, not to mention Kimber's 1 year warranty against Springfield's Lifetime warranty.

    A lot of folks say not to buy the Springfield because they are machined in Brazil.

    Well, fooey on that. The Springfields do have sharp edges and need to be broken in with about 150-200 rounds of ball ammo before they like to cycle hollowpoints, but I still maintain that they blow the Kimber away.

    Don't get me wrong: the Kimber is an outstanding 1911, but the Springfield just plain beats it in every department.


    Why pay more for a Kimber and get less of a handgun?

    Stand And Be Counted
  • idsman75idsman75 Member Posts: 13,398 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Don't buy American for the sake of buying American. That takes out the competition factor which increases the quality of goods and services when applied correctly. Buy the superior product. Support those that make the superior product and force those that make the inferior product to improve. That is the American way.
  • kimberkidkimberkid Member Posts: 8,858 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    SUBMARINER,
    This is a discussion that has raged for as long as I can remember ... before Kimber or Springfield, it was Colt or Springfield.

    Reminds me of a sign I saw in a muffler shop the other day:

    "I'm aware others sell their SIMILAR PRODUCT for less ... they know what its worth!"

    Evil- You remind me of that guy that couldn't find a job, woke up to the sound of his alarm clock (made in Japan), put on his robe (made in the Philippines) and his slippers (made in Korea) ...

    When you CAN, BUY AMERICAN!

    As to the warrenty, ever hear of a Kimber with a cracked slide (a common problem with Springfield) ... If the edges "smooth" so quickly, what does that tell you about their steel?

    Lastly: Have you ever wondered where Wilson Combat gets their forgings for THEIR frames & slides ??? one word, KIMBER!

    (And Mathew, before you jump in ... yes, Kimber gets them from Smith & Wesson)

    =================================
    I used to know everything, then I grew up!...(kinda)

    kimberkid@gunbroker.zzn.com
    If you really desire something, you'll find a way ?
    ? otherwise, you'll find an excuse.
  • kimberkidkimberkid Member Posts: 8,858 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    idsman75 - I agree with the idea of the "competition factor" but then how do American Workers compete aginst slave labor wages such as in Brazil and other countrys?

    Production costs (read labor costs) are why so many of "our" companies have moved their facilities out of the US.

    =================================
    I used to know everything, then I grew up!...(kinda)

    kimberkid@gunbroker.zzn.com
    If you really desire something, you'll find a way ?
    ? otherwise, you'll find an excuse.
  • 4GodandCountry4GodandCountry Member Posts: 3,968
    edited November -1
    Is springfield as good as kimber? Not even close! Kimber has tolerances that are 3 times tighter than springfield. Pick up your springfield and give it a good shake. Do you hear that rattling? Now pick up any KImber and do the same thing, whats that, you say you don't hear anything! As stated previously Wilson Combat, a name which has become synonimous with, "the ultimate 1911", uses Kimber slides and Frames as the bases for there fine weapons. Good things arent cheap and cheap things arent good. Sometimes you just have to make a decision as to what is more important. The old addage of you get what you pay for seems to be a time tested fact. Do yourself a favor and buy the Kimber you wont regret it. But before you do buy it you would do well to shop around and get a few different prices. I was able too get my Kimber Custom SS Target at a local master dealer for $750.00 it retailed for $940. I went to KImbers web sight, punched in there dealer locator and started making calls. After I thought Id got the price down to a good enouph deal I called my local shop, Carls Pawn Shop, and they gave me about $20 more discount.

    When Clinton left office they gave him a 21 gun salute. Its a damn shame they all missed....
  • NighthawkNighthawk Member Posts: 12,022 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    This is only an opinion, go for the Springfield Loaded model. I love mine, I also own a wilson combat 1911. My Springfield is just as good in my book. Springfield also has a lifetime no questions warranty. I know they are some that love their Kimbers as well as I do My Springfield, and with good reason. I was first turned against Kimber non 1911s because of their low capacity mags. As for sharp edges on the Springfield the only one I found was on the slide. A trip to my Gun smith and $25.00 took care of that. I will warn you of one thing in advance with the springfield. It has a two to three hundred round break in period before I would trust my life with it. Hope this helps!!

    Rugster
  • Mr. LoboMr. Lobo Member Posts: 538 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    SUBMARINER, I agree with the Kimber boys. I just got mine about 300 rounds ago and it just keeps getting better. I tried the Springfield out along with other 45 1911 models. I really think it is all about feel. The Kimber fits me like a glove. Sure you can modify a gun to fit your needs but for out of the box 1911 Kimber is the best in my book.

    Jim
  • Evil ATFEvil ATF Member Posts: 1,195 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    "Evil- You remind me of that guy that couldn't find a job, woke up to the sound of his alarm clock (made in Japan), put on his robe (made in the Philippines) and his slippers (made in Korea) ..."

    I'm a Patriot through and through, but I don't have a beef with buying foreign on a product that is going to be defending my life and the lives of my family. I picked what was, in my opinion, the best tool for that job. Nation of origin is not even a minor factor when I'm purchasing firearms for defense of Life, Liberty and Property.

    "As to the warrenty, ever hear of a Kimber with a cracked slide (a common problem with Springfield) ... If the edges "smooth" so quickly, what does that tell you about their steel?

    The cracked slides are absolutely not a "problem" with Springfield's 1911's. There were a few early models that had problems, but that was fixed long ago. Search the Net and ask around. I bet you'll only come up with a handful of documented cases where the slide has cracked on a Springfield.

    As to the quality of steel on Springfield's slides, I do believe that Springfield uses a higher quality steel than the Kimber pistols. I'll have to do a little bit 'o research on that though to be able to back it up with hard fact. Give me a day or so. I still have the sharp edges on my slide after 1,000+ rounds. A $20 trip to your local smith will fix that, or do it yourself for free.

    I'll grant you that one point. Kimber pre-grinds that one measly sharp point off the bottom of their slides and Springfield does not.

    Anyhow, if I started posting some of the horror stories I've heard about Kimber's quality control, you'd cringe.

    "Pick up your springfield and give it a good shake. Do you hear that rattling?"

    I have no idea what you're talking about. I have mine sitting right in front of me on my desk. It's as silent as Bob.

    "As stated previously Wilson Combat, a name which has become synonimous with, "the ultimate 1911", uses Kimber slides and Frames as the bases for there fine weapons."

    Yes, but Wilson Combat is another overly-hyped brand name. Do you want a pistol that's loaded with a buttload of goodies and works right for under $1,000? Then buy the Springfield.

    However, if you want a 1911 that you'll pay $2,500 for just so that you can show your buddies the logo, be my guest.

    Just because Eddie Bauer allows his name to be epoxyed on Fords, does that make the Eddie Bauer Explorers and Expeditions faster? Hell no! It's all about looks and name recognition!

    Point being, all the 1911's listed here (other than Colt) are all fine weapons and you truly would not go wrong with any of them.

    However, you asked for opinions on which would be the best (I.E. smart) purchase.

    Evil has spoken. Long live Evil. :-)

    Stand And Be Counted
  • dheffleydheffley Member Posts: 25,000
    edited November -1
    Owning many of the 1911's by almost everyone who makes one, I would suggest you look at the pro's and con's of each gun.

    I love my Kimber, and it is the most accurate out of the box 1911 I have ever owned. My biggest con, I don't like the field stripping proceedure. Having to carry a paper clip or the little "wire wrench" to strip it bothers me. I don't know why. My biggest pro, I don't have to "customize" or "accurize" it, or spend any other money on it. It is excellent the way it is.

    I love my Springfield, and it is a fine quality 1911. Much better than the last Colt Mark IV Series 80 I bought. It is well built of good quality materials and the parts are fairly close tolerance. My biggest con, I still have to "fit" and "deburr" some parts for a really smooth gun. My biggest pro, It uses the original 1911 designs and is a true clone. Accessory's will interchange freely.

    None of the above pro's or con's will stop me from buying another of either one. If you want to buy a gun and use it without "customizing" it, buy the Kimber. If you want to buy a gun to build up over the years to a "custom" gun, a Springfield would best about the best you could start with.

    Save, research, then buy the best.Join the NRA, NOW!Teach them young, teach them safe, teach them forever, but most of all, teach them to VOTE!
  • PearywPearyw Member Posts: 3,699
    edited November -1
    I have 2 Kimbers and 1 Springfield. I Like All 3. I don't know what I would buy next. I don't like the II series safety system that Kimber is now using, and I noticed that the new Springfield ejectors are no longer pined in place. I don't think that either of these
    "improvements" is a good idea.
  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    True, this has gone on for a long long time. The 1911, or Government model if you prefer, is probably the most cloned and customized and fiddled with gun Americans ever loved. I love 'em too. I don't have any clear answers for you. I think it depends on how you enjoy your guns, and how much you are willing to pay.

    There are so many gunsmiths doing custom work on these I've lost count, and these customized versions are bound to find their way into the "standard lines" of some manufacturers every so often. I consider Kimber to be a line of custom 1911s, which is why they cost more. I consider Springfield to make a pretty good conventional gun. I hear Auto Ordnance is also now making a pretty good conventional choice. Colts have been in the business forever.

    I'd say, expect better out of box performance from a gun, like the Kimber, that is sold with the "aura" of having customized features. If it isn't a better gun, then they haven't done their gunsmithing right and you're not getting your extra money's worth. For your bucks, you should usually get an accurate reliable shooter out of the box. Conventional guns are less money for a reason, and you get to break them in and fiddle with them a bit more, but that's part of the fun -- a little deburr here, a little ramp polish there, maybe try Wolff springs. The Springfield makes good enough guns to make you happy, I'm sure.

    There have been bad 1911s. Auto Ordnance used to sell Tommy guns and 1911s that were poorly manufactured. Too bad, because they made a model I liked, I think it was called a Bulldog, with a shortened barrel, but I'd never buy one because the press on them was so bad in the 80s. There have been others, often but not always foreign makes. It's a big topic, but the truth of the matter is that between the Kimber "custom" job and the Springfield quality conventional gun it's mostly up to you. Frankly, I'd probably go for a Para myself right now, with the limited edition improvements.

    - Life NRA Member
    "If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
  • Evil ATFEvil ATF Member Posts: 1,195 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    What "customizations" are you refering to on the Springfield Loaded series (the type of Springfield that is being discussed here)?

    The only thing you can put on a Springfield Loaded series pistol that doesn't already come included from the factory would be an integral laser sight.

    My Loaded 1911 has everything you can possibly put on a 1911 and I got it just like that from the factory...for $350 less than the average sale price (NOT "retail" or MSRP) of the equivilant Kimber.

    I'm just not sure where everyone is getting their info, or if they're unsure what we're comparing here.

    Stand And Be Counted
  • 4GodandCountry4GodandCountry Member Posts: 3,968
    edited November -1
    If you have a prescription to shotgun news, go back a couple of months they have a comparison between the colt, springfield, rock island, lama and another model maybe ballester molina I cant remember. According to the author they all performed comparably. If you want a weapon that can compete in an IPCS tounament right out of the box, get a kimber. By the way, just to let you know, Im not a sales rep. for Kimber I just love em. good luck with your decision...

    When Clinton left office they gave him a 21 gun salute. Its a damn shame they all missed....
  • SUBMARINERSUBMARINER Member Posts: 1,362 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    IT WOULD SEEM FROM WHAT IM READING THAT THE BIGGEST PROBLEM WITH THE SRNGFLD IS THE BREAK-IN PERIOD WHICH AS I SAID IS NOT AN ISSUE FOR ME.BUT AS FAR AS FGEATURES THE KIMBER AND THE SPRNGFLD ARE PRETTY EVEN??I MEAN I NEVER HEARD OF A SPNGFLD FLYING APART OR NOTHING.AND EVIL IM THINKING ALONG YOUR LIONES IVE BEEN TOLD THAT THE SPRNGFLD LOADED MODEL HAD MANY OPTIONS ON IT THAT THE KIMBER HAS JUST DONT COST AS MUCH,AND IT DIDNT REQUIRE THE TRIP TO THE GUNSMITH THAT PREVIOUS SPRNGFLDS DID.I DONT KNOW GUYS I LIKE BOTH AND THE 1/4 INCH ACCURACY AT 25 YDS AINT GONNA MAKE MUCH DIFFERENCE TO ME.I SHOT A KIMBER AND LOVED IT BUT IF THERE AINT NO REASON TO PAY THE EXTRA MONEY I DONT WANT TO.....WALT THE UNDECIDED

    SUBMARINE SAILOR,TRUCK DRIVER,NE'ER DO WELL, INSTIGATOR,AND RUSTY WALLACE FAN
  • twinstwins Member Posts: 647 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Springfield.

    I am not willing to pay a good chunk more for a gun that is not worth that good chunk more. I have a V16 and other than the breakin, no problems.

    If the tolerances are that tight in a Kimber, drop it in the dirt and muck in a must fire situation and see how reliable it is. I seem to remember people saying Colts were loose for a reason too, battle filed conditions are not clean, tight weapons may mean malfunctions. My Sprinfield is not loose by the way.
  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Ahh --
    Didn't know there was a model called Loaded Springfield. Must have missed an ad somewhere.

    - Life NRA Member
    "If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
  • Evil ATFEvil ATF Member Posts: 1,195 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Ummm...yup. It's called the "Loaded Series".

    Stand And Be Counted
  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Found it. Here's a link:

    http://www.springfield-armory.com/*-pstl-1911.shtml


    - Life NRA Member
    "If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
  • kimberkidkimberkid Member Posts: 8,858 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I had a bad experiance with Springfield's "Life Time Warrenty" years ago, took 8 months to get my gun back and nothing was repaired or replaced ... as far as I could see, nothing had been done to it. The thumb safety was still so stiff it couldn't be engaged or dis-engaged with the thumb of the shooting hand ... came that way new, dealer said it just needed to be "broken in" and would free up, then after about 500 rounds it would fire from 1/2 cocked ... Springfield said "No Problem Found".

    If Springfield has gotten better, more power to them! I'll never own another ...

    ... IF they've gotten better, and for their wider selection of products (such as the "Loaded Series"), you can thank KIMBER for forcing them into it ... cause they weren't making any changes on their own, I guess thats the American way!

    The only bad thing about Kimber ... there is so darn many models to choose from

    =================================
    I used to know everything, then I grew up!...(kinda)

    kimberkid@gunbroker.zzn.com
    If you really desire something, you'll find a way ?
    ? otherwise, you'll find an excuse.
  • beachmaster73beachmaster73 Member Posts: 3,011 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Well I just had 2 Caspians frames and oversized slides built from the ground up as match weapons. Barstow "marine cut" barrels, Bomar low mount sights, etc etc. They are unbelievably accurate and unbelievably tight and well they should be for the price....Point is I'd never use them in combat just for the reason of potential for jam under adverse conditions. What are you really going to using the pistols for? Both Springfield and Kimber make an adequate weapon. If the price difference means nothing to you go with the Kimber. If you are going to start shooting a lot and money means something to you...buy the Springfield and you are well on your way to getting a Dillon 550 progressive reloader. Honestly you really won't see a hill of spit's difference in the accuracy of the two weapons. Beach
  • n4thethrilln4thethrill Member Posts: 366 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    i had feed proablems with my springfield took it to the smith a little polishing on the feed ramp and it shoots fine 3000+rounds in 1 1/2 years however i have a colt 1911 and have not had a proablem with it for five years
  • Darin SperlingDarin Sperling Member Posts: 291 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Springfield, Colt, Kimber......in that order

    Sperling PE
  • SUBMARINERSUBMARINER Member Posts: 1,362 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    anybody else wanna get in with any advice on this????

    SUBMARINE SAILOR,TRUCK DRIVER,NE'ER DO WELL, INSTIGATOR,AND RUSTY WALLACE FAN
  • idsman75idsman75 Member Posts: 13,398 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    How difficult would it be for a gunsmith to disable this integral locking system?
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