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THE YOUNG AND THE GUTLESS

Josey1Josey1 Member Posts: 9,598 ✭✭
edited October 2001 in General Discussion
THE YOUNG AND THE GUTLESS By ROD DREHER
October 2, 2001 -- OUR enemies know what they believe. They're willing to kill for it. And, more importantly, they're willing to die for it. Are the young men and women who may be called on to defend our civilization willing to make the same sacrifice? Anecdotal information cannot conclusively answer that question - thank heavens. If liberty had to depend on most of the young people I spoke to in Washington Square Park the other day, we'd all be answering to Osama by Christmas. "I'm not big on war," says Patrick Mulryan, 21, an aspiring actor. "I'm gay, so I'm not big on the military." Well, the Islamic extremists our military are preparing to attack are not big on gays. In Afghanistan, Osama's Taliban supporters execute gays by crushing them under demolished walls. Recent college graduate Philip Rosenbloom, 21, is also unwilling to put his life on the line to defend his country, which he says "to some extent, has been something of a bully." NYU student Jonathan Chen, 20, thinks that war is wrong, wrong, wrong. But as for terrorists, Chen insists that "we have to take care of them." "We," but not "he"? Does Chen mean that other men have to be willing to die to protect his freedom? Yes. Some people are born for that purpose, he says. "There are people who are more willing to fight, who have the mindset of killing people," Chen says. "Not everybody is meant to fight." Chen has "hopes and dreams" of becoming a filmmaker, and he doesn't want to "endanger" them, he says. Presumably, those brave firefighters who went to their deaths in those burning towers to save the lives of strangers had no hopes and dreams worthy of concern. Perhaps, men and women who are willing to die to defend Chen's right to pursue his hopes and dreams have none themselves. NYU student Justin Tables, 19, saw one of the towers collapse in front of his eyes. Still, he is unwilling to risk his life to fight the terrorists because "this is all [America's] fault anyway." Jason Toledo, 19, is the only draft-age man I can find who would be willing to die for his country in the coming war. He says he's not enthusiastic about fighting, but he would go if America called. Toledo, an NYU student from Atlanta, says he's wondered a lot if Americans have the backbone to fight such a dedicated enemy. The terrorist-themed Bruce Willis film "The Siege" has been on his mind. "There's a saying in that movie that the most committed wins. That's scary, because we're not about causes here. We're about individualism," he says. Toledo cautions me not to take the young men in Washington Square as representative of the whole country. "Man, we're in the Village. I don't know anyone who would go, even if there were a draft," he says. Still, you have to figure that you could have gone into Washington Square Park in December 1941 and found plenty of liberal young men who were willing to go fight Tojo and Hitler, neither of whom had done what Osama bin Laden did: mount a sneak attack that murdered more than 6,000 in New York, live on TV. That was then. This is now. Maybe the Muslim fanatics are right, and we in the free world have become decadent beyond all saving. God help us. We may soon see. e-mail: dreher@nypost.com http://www.nypost.com/commentary/5487.htm

Comments

  • concealedG36concealedG36 Member Posts: 3,566 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Well, fortunately, we DO have a lot of good men and women who will fight, hats off to them. But, I truly believe that it is those pacifist type of people who are causing our great nation the biggest problems. Its always ME ME ME, no thought of anybody else. That is precisely why you don't see men opening doors for women much anymore, why many young people do not respect their elders or their parents for that matter, why rap music that encourages people to treat women like bitches is widely accepted. Many of our young people have never experienced hardship and they are not aware of the sacrifices others made for them to enjoy such freedom. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Our young will never fully appreciate the price of freedom until their forced to pay it. (i.e. go to war or experience other life-altering hardship). It's just like the kid whose daddy bought him a car, paid for college, paid for an apartment and expected nothing in return (not even respect or good grades). The kid becomes lazy, disrespectful and cares about nothing but himself. Then, one day, he has to move out and get his own job and pay for his own car, etc. That is when he learns. Exact same thing goes for the other things kids today take for granted.
  • royc38royc38 Member Posts: 2,235 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I would have loved to jump on this article with both feet and possibly called you out on this one but so far from what I have seen you are correct. I am afraid this upcoming generation doesn't have the rocks for whats ahead. I think right now we kinda look like France in 1938. Now part of this is because of the disturbing extreme left wing liberals that shove this crap in their brains at the colleges and call themselves professors. Now as for the gay part, I have no use for these people but this would be the perfect time for them to step up and show me how wrong I have been about them. If this terrorist situation isn't handled right ( and so far it hasn't) we could be seeing the beginning of the end. The only thing I can think of at the moment is for us to make sure we are heard on the streets and make sure everyone knows how you feel about this. Maybe we can drum the right stuff back in them or at least make them think it over again before they do something stupid. I myself have not been flag waving during this. No one needs nor has ever questioned my patriotism. My patriotism didn't start on 9/11/01 like some other people. But be that as it may when the bombing starts my employees get time and a half and a party on that day.(which should have been 9/15/01). So we wait and wait and wait and wait and.......
  • truckershaverightstootruckershaverightstoo Member Posts: 22 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Like I said in an earlier post.........my grandfather told me that the hippies from the sixties would wreck this country, and they did. they also reproduced and made little flower children(hippies)
    you may cut me off in traffic with your little car but you can't outrun my .223's !
  • cpilericpileri Member Posts: 447 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Here's a thought on why the response hasn't occurreed yet? We aren't ready.Thew military has cut back so much, over 300% in some areas, that only a few specialized units of highly trained and "ready on a minute's notice" remain. Everyone else has far substandard combat training and readiness. Plus, our sheer lack of personnel puts us at a disadvantage.Sure, we need to plan this attak correctly. But in reality, we need manpower to make any plan work, and trained soldiers who are ready for the mounatinous terrain, the determination of the enemy, etc. We lack the people who can combat these thoimngs because we lack the funds for training AND for the numbers of soldiers we will need.The military was 3x as large after the elder Bush left office than it is now after... well, you know.On another note: I have to go fight for Jonathan Chen's freedoms- makes me sick. I am happy to defend our right's so my son and future generations can enjoy them. Not so future generations can raise such P**SIES who think they can pursue a film career if we fall to a foreign power.C
  • LowriderLowrider Member Posts: 6,587
    edited November -1
    I agree with everything that's been said except for the remark about "...this is why you don't see men opening doors for women anymore."Well, I still open doors for women, but a good part of the decline of chivalry can be blamed on women's lib.How's the old libber's saying go?..."A woman without a man is like a fish without a bicycle?"A lot of people now say "screw 'em". Let them open their own doors.
    She was only a fisherman's daughter,But when she saw my rod she reeled.
  • concealedG36concealedG36 Member Posts: 3,566 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Okay Lowrider, you're probably right. I kinda got into a little rant there. Maybe that's just something that bothers me, but unrelated to the topic. Still, I very much respect the way older people act. I am embarrassed when I see people my age (29) acting like idiots.
  • Dragunov7.62x54RDragunov7.62x54R Member Posts: 35 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    As a so called "Young Person" I can deffinatly say that the majority of views on young people are myths created by the film industry. Most of the young people I know are respectful to there parents, just most of them only have one parent. Young people are abused alot, their civil rights violated daily, taken advantage of by their ignorance. I tell you if I was back in the public school system, I would legally kick so much but, its not even funny, if I knew what I know now.Would you want to defend a country who locks you in a classroom and doesn't even alow you to go to the restroom. I wouldn't. I only recently discovered how wonderful and beautiful America was. I was actually trying to get my but to New Zeland, but you have to be a doctor or rich to get citzenship there.Its so easy to just open a business here, its not even funny, the opportunities to make money are unparralleled. I do not respect alot of the firearms laws though. Like the magazine limit, thats B.S. And the US is the only place where a criminal could sue you for hurting himself trying to break in your home...
  • mlincolnmlincoln Member Posts: 5,039 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Well, there's another side to that coin. I'd love a chance to serve my country but the armed services don't want me. I screwed up a knee playing football and a mild case of asthma, and because of that I can't help my country. Basically, it takes me a bit longer to hop through an obstacle course and every now and again I have to take a puff on an inhaler. Because of that, they want nothing to do with me. I sort of wonder how playing two sports at the college level and having a Master's degree jibes with being considered "unfit" or whatever term they use. I know there are some things I can't do, but I could and would do something if they'd just give me a chance. Before you bash a whole generation, realize that there are lots of fellows like me out there who'd like to help but aren't allowed to.
  • SP TigerSP Tiger Member Posts: 872 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I had related this in another thread the other day, but it's worth repeating. On NPR a few days ago, they were interviewing some high school kids about going to war. The ones the reporter seemed most interested in were the ones who said they were against it and would not go if drafted. They reported little of what was said by the students who said they would go. Typical for the liberal-minded NPR. I would like to get my hands on the little twerp who said he, and several of his friends, would go to Canada to avoid the draft. These stupid little morons think WWII is ancient history and they don't understand the young men of that day didn't want to die either, but they went anyway because their country needed them. I would like to think most of our youth do not think the same as those the above article mentioned. Like someone above mentioned, it does seem that all these kids think is "Me, Me, Me!" For our country's sake let's hope not.I should add that I'm 32 years old, regrettably never served in the military, but would go if possible. Can't hear too well from my right ear, but I would go.
    Better to have and not need, than need and not have.[This message has been edited by SP Tiger (edited 10-05-2001).]
  • idsman75idsman75 Member Posts: 13,398 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Those that say they will answer if America calls are just as gutless. They don't have the intestinal fortitude to enlist and they know that it would take extreme political risk to initiate another draft. What a cop-out!
  • Evil ATFEvil ATF Member Posts: 1,195 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Idsman:I understand your beef with you being a recruiter and all, but be careful not to paint all of us young folk with too wide a brush.I'm not enlisting, but I WILL go if called. If that makes me a coward in some people's eyes: So be it. The only opinion that matters to me is that of our Lord God and my wife. I own two successful business's (One I created from square one and the other I inherited when a family member died). If I were to go to war for a year, I doubt that my wife would be able to run the business's efficiently. Quite likely, both would go under. I'm not about to run off to Afghanistan to prove that I'm a big boy. Yeah, I'd have a lot to be proud of, but my wife would be scraping by on the measly $700 per month the military offers. Brother, my monthly housing costs ALONE are double that figure. If my number ever comes up, I'll go serve my country. But don't call folks like myself cowards for putting family first.
  • truckershaverightstootruckershaverightstoo Member Posts: 22 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I was going to enlist in the reserves but a little over 8 years ago a thing called Clinton happened. I told myself and my Father who is a lifer in the army I will gladly sign up but I WILL NOT SERVE UNDER CLINTON. Now that he is gone it is a possibility that I will go but like the last fella said I got a lot to lose if I leave for battle,I'm 31 years old with a wife ,2 kids and BILLS. I respect the armed services maybe more than some who serve but as long as there are plenty of able bodied youngsters out there who have no direction in life yet I'll just stay on the porch untill it catches fire. reserves yes,active for this kind of war no. This war will be about smart bombs and special ops. It will not be another southeast asia,atleast not for now. If it comes down to that I will reconsider but like I said I have to much to lose to just go over and stand there with my thumb up my but watching the sun rise in the desert. GOD BLESS THE USA AND THE MEN WHO DIED TO MAKE IT WHAT IS TODAY
  • rodgergliderodgerglide Member Posts: 184 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hey Trucker..some of us old hippies have served and now have sons or daughters serving.Not all of us are shirkers.I love my country but STILL do not trust the government to always do what is right.All I can do is vote and support the NRA and AMA(American Motorcyclist Asso.)and hope for the best.
    Freedom is not free,what have YOU done to support it?
  • twinstwins Member Posts: 647 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Yes, those of us who did not need someone telling us what to do every minute of every day are losers because we did not join the military. Some of us had a direction and goals w/o being told when to *. GET A LIFE AND PULL YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR *. After all, you, just like all of us are stateside.
  • SP TigerSP Tiger Member Posts: 872 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I don't know if Idsman's comment was directed at me or not, but I said I would go if called. If that makes me a coward then so be it. How many new recruits are there in the military that are over thirty? I exercise on a regular basis, and I do some running, but could I make it through basic trainining? Who knows. Maybe I'll have the chance to find out.
    Better to have and not need, than need and not have.
  • idsman75idsman75 Member Posts: 13,398 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    twins--First of all, I'm stateside for a reason and I haven't always been stateside. I too have been sent into third world countries to do things that were less-than-enjoyable. Secondly, my head is not in my *. My head, along with my body, is on the job about 80 hours a week and that doesn't mean sitting around and waiting for people to walk through my front door. I've only been out here for 3 months and, due to the uniform that I wear, my life has been threatened on two occasions. Get it out of your thick skull that I chose this. Finally, I have never been told when to pass a bowel movement. Apparently you've been watching too much Full Metal Jacket. That's fine. That's why I'm here--to educate the ignorant about what the military is all about. Give 1-800-USA-ARMY a call sometime if you ever care to step out of your ignorant state. The notion that those who enlist are directionless in life is probably the most ignorant statement that you could have possibly made. What I have done thus far is a springboard towards a career that I am aspiring towards. I chose this "springboard" because it also gives me the opportunity to give back some of what I was given. Just because I am stateside doesn't mean that I get weekends and holidays off. My home is a place where I sleep about four hours a night and where I store my property -- that's it. By the way, you're welcome.EvilATF--People with an acumen to run their own businesses and entrepreneurs seeking prosperity are a few of the many things that make our nation so strong. Thank you for what it is that you do. I was referring to the typical response of the dead-enders out there to whom I offer a better solution for success. There is a disease that has spead throughout America. People pay taxes and assume they and their liberties will be protected because they do so. I respect those that say they won't go to war more than those who say they will go "if called" because most of the ladder are in the same boat as the former but don't have the intestinal fortitude to say it for fear of being perceived as unpatriotic. Maybe I should fax you a pay chart sometime. Things have progressed a bit beyond 700 a month. We have a flag and a Constitution and a Bill of Rights because grown men left their wives and their farms and their businesses at risk of losing them all to go to the front where there was a higher probability of death than there is today and they took their sons with them. That spirit does not exist today. We would just rather wave flags and hide behind them like holy protective plastic Jesus dolls on the dashboards of cars. The patriotic response that we have seen was largely based on emotion -- a chemical reaction in the brain. Now that the chemical balances in our brains are beginning to normalize, we will see.P.S. My comments were not directed at all non-military citizens or you Tiger. When I went through basic training I watched two 34-year-old men hang with the rest of us. [This message has been edited by idsman75 (edited 10-05-2001).][This message has been edited by idsman75 (edited 10-05-2001).][This message has been edited by idsman75 (edited 10-05-2001).]
  • Evil ATFEvil ATF Member Posts: 1,195 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thanks for clearing that up, Ids.
  • Free N TXFree N TX Member Posts: 165 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Well, first off, I was not able to join back when I was 18 due to being deaf in one ear and having had a medical condition known as "Osgood Slaughterous Disease" (not sure if that was spelled right) which is the knee bone fragmenting and causing severe pain with the slightest touch.Now, as far as my oldest son is concerned, he is ready to join up to fight the terrorist. He was angered (to say the least on a family board) when he say what happened on 9-11-01. He has been saying, for several years now, that he is going to join the military as soon as possible. I have told him that is fine but that the military will have to wait untill he turns 18, he just turned 16 in August.So for those who say we are raising a nation of cowardly wimps, I say BULL *. I know that several of his friends are going to sign up as soon as leagally possible.
  • XracerXracer Member Posts: 1,990
    edited November -1
    Well, Twins, I guess nobody well ever accuse you of being a member of "The Greatest Generation".So, go ahead....sit on * and enjoy your freedom while better men than you go and defend it.
  • idsman75idsman75 Member Posts: 13,398 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Free N TX--Thank you for your willingness to serve. You inadvertantly raise a point that is important. About 50% of those that want to serve can't due to the fact that they are disqualified for one reason or another. In the area where I work, the vast majority of my target market is too scared to stray more than 5 feet from momma's left teat. Fortunately my market only covers around 30,000 square miles.
  • twinstwins Member Posts: 647 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Until you know anything about me, kiss my *. You paint everyone with a broad brush. I can and will do the same, paint everyone with the same brush. I don't watch movies and blindly accept whatever theme is thrown out ie... Full Metal Jacket and it's kind are crap as you are referring to, glad you enjoy such mindless drivel. Yes Xracer, you high and mighty most wonderful patriotic heroic god, I sit on my * and enjoy my life and what I can make of it. And what is it that makes you so wonderful? You are the "greatest generation"? Should we list some of the accomplishments of the generation of which you speak? Exactly how much history do you really know?Idsman, Should I boohoo for you since you get four hours of sleep a day, hell no. So you know what it it like too. I work full time, go to college full time, help my grandfather run his business, am active in scouts and have four children I help my wife raise. I would guarantee I get less downtime than you. I am supposed to believe that the uniform you choose to put on and get paid well for makes you more patriotic than me. *. Like I said, you paint with whatever brush you choose and I'll use the same one you do. Can't handle it, use a different brush and I will too. I don't recall asking you to do anything for me and I have no need to thank you. I don't have a need to "toot my own horn" either. I don't believe that is what makes one credible.You also may want to review the American War for Independence. When the Brits offered a treaty for peace, they did it two years to late. LOTS of people did not even want to get into war. Had they offered it when the colonists sent The Declaration of Rights and Grievances in 1774, there would have been no uprising or war. Speak ill of others all you want, but until you know them, expect to get as good as you give from those of us who have as much intestinal fortitude as you. To "paint" all colonist as running to fight for independence is as ludicrous as calling those in today's society who are not in the military "unpatriotic".I'm better than you, you are better than me, blah, blah, blah. It's getting old. If you truly must know, I have already discussed going to the Marine Corps with my wife, however without very outlined circumstances, it is not going to happen. Do I wish I had when I was 18, no, they wanted infantry only. Not what I wanted then or now. Apparently, not what you want either. As some have said in the past, why turn your entire life upside down now, when as of yet we have no idea what is going to happen, when or how it will happen.To call me young and gutless will result in a verbal confrontation to say (at) the very least. I have more respect for others and myself to belittle, insult or slander on a whim. I will not however stand or sit by and take * for no good reason. Behind a keyboard OR in person.While I intend to offend no one, yes Idsman, that includes you, I make no apology for my beliefs or stance. Nor do I make excuses. Any one job or profession should not preclude a person to being heroic or patriotic. Ones actions define that, not their job or clothes.
  • Patrick OdlePatrick Odle Member Posts: 951 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Anyone that doesn't know that within 12 to 15 hours after the 9-11 attack we could have tturned afganistan into a nuclear waste land is not in touch with U. S. tech. and capabilites. Instead our country is giving millions in aid to that same country . If anyone thinks that will act as a deterantthen he is about as smart as the ones doing the planning. I predicted early when the saudis started backsliding that egypt would be next. did anyone see todays news. Isreal has long known the arab needed dealing with and when it applies to them they deal swiftly and forcefully. Are we waiting for another attack so we can rush out and send aid to them. When the arab countrys saw our hesitation instead acting imeadiatly and massively they began to revert to arab for they along with the entire world saw just how weak and impotent we appeared. who pray tell heard anythingabout those poor afgan women and children before we were attacked. were the hijackers not children at one time in their life and didn't they have women for mothers. People think of our innocent dead that have still not been avenged. For Shame.
  • timberbeasttimberbeast Member Posts: 1,738 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I know a lot of young people, and I think I will be in safe hands when they are taking care of me. They seem to get more patriotic everyday, and question the liberal leanings of their teachers. Many I know have called recruiting centers, but have been told that there is no need for them at present. What I see is a media bias to stir up interest in the news to garner ratings by talking only to one side, as usual, and I also see what WE got so PO'd at our elders for, judging us by the length of our hair or by generalizing and not getting to know individuals. I'm 44 and I still have long hair, so I must be young and gutless. My older son is 18 and has a pieced eyebrow and plays guitar in a punk band (So did I). Know him before you judge him, don't stereotype. He can also shoot the eye out of a rabbit at 30 yards with a single-six, and he's ready to go if he's needed.
  • LowriderLowrider Member Posts: 6,587
    edited November -1
    I don't know when Idsman and some of you other Vets. went into the service, but take it from someone who went through Army basic training in 1968... Don't badmouth Full Metal Jacket.Full Metal Jacket is the most accurate, authentic portrayal of Viet Nam era basic training that has ever come out of Hollywood. Anybody who thinks the first half (boot camp half) of that movie is Hollywood crap doesn't have a clue of what the military used to be like.That was back in the days when soldiers didn't have sensitivity training classes and beer machines in the barracks.
    She was only a fisherman's daughter,But when she saw my rod she reeled.
  • BlackgunsBlackguns Member Posts: 496 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Well im 21 years old and I enlisted in the army last week. I will be shippen out to benning on November 15. I had planned to join before the attack on sept 11, and the attack only gave me more resolve. Ive watched this board because of my growing love for firearms and second amendment issues. I wont say that most men in my generation are like me...most of my friends are nothin like me. But I do want to serve my country and I would die to protect the lifestyle that America provides. Now that I know I will be leavin I think everday how truly blessed we all are. I scored an 82 on the asvab and had the option to do almost anything, but I picked the infantry because I think that is where my country needs me. I guess in the coming months and years we will see if my life and the lives of others will be needed to protect this American dream.
  • cpilericpileri Member Posts: 447 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Free N TX,Its Osgood Schlatter's Disease, very common. Develops as a young man.BTW: for all who want to serve with a "boardable" (disqualifying) illness, dieease, or whatever:If you have a MOS (skill) that the military REALLY wants, like being a physician, dentist, and certain other highly trained and scarce-in-the-military specialties, you can ask for a waiver. Also, hit a recruiter in a place hard-up for numbers. In other words, don't try to join the Air Force in Omaha, Nebraska right near Stratcom. Head for the Army in San Fransisco,CA.Obviously, don't travel thousands of miles out of your way- just making a point.C
  • BlueTicBlueTic Member Posts: 4,072
    edited November -1
    Twins - are we a bit defensive today? Chill! My opinion aside, all you needed to say is that you are not one of the many who detest the thought of war. You are correct in your history and with all wars there are individuals who will not serve and are selfserving SOB's. You have the right to your opinion and I agree with about 80% of that. But, to verbaly assault another person for stating their opinion is a bit silly don't you think.My opinion is, that with this electronic BBS high volume chat type * - you get alot of info at once. You should remain impersonal and not take offense (unless directly addressed, but even then who gives a rats *) Like you say Twins - I don't know a thing about you - as you about me, other than we like our rights to freedom.I thought Full Metal Jacket was a good movie and realistic. If you wish to judge me by my liking one movie, I also liked "My Side of the Mountain". Not to be an * about it, but I realy could care less what you think about me.
    IF YOU DON'T LIKE MY RIGHTS - GET OUT OF MY COUNTRY (this includes politicians)
  • SNIPER1048SNIPER1048 Member Posts: 144 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Guys:You have forgoten one big thing! You don't have to go there. Their cells are aready active here in USA. The Irailes have found out about the suicide bomber the hard way. Your front porch might be across the street from the bomb factory! Think about it!
    "START THE BALL ROLLING THERE, TECTOR"
  • beantolebeantole Member Posts: 1,086 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Twins: Your comments disparaging people who enlist in the military are pathetic and reveal much about you and gutless people who think like you. They want all the freedoms of this country but don't want to carry their weight, they think somone else can do it. Sorry attitude.
  • idsman75idsman75 Member Posts: 13,398 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Lowrider--I know it is an accurate representation of the Viet Nam era but that same train of thought still pervades the minds of the ignorant today. That's not how it is anymore and nobody tells me "when to take a *". twins--I'm not tooting my own horn. I am responding to the connotations you made about being "stateside". It's not all roses. That was my point. The fact remains that there are certain areas of this country where the youth are gutless and when you talk to hundreds of them every week, you can get a good idea of the whole picture. Call it a "wide brush" if you will but also take it from someone whose profession is specifically to ask those that are eligible to step forward. Over 80% of your current military personnel did not walk into a recruiting station and say "I want to join". They were recruited. That means that somebody went out and found them and convinced them that it was a viable path to take towards their goals in life. I never said that you were lazy but you felt the need to toot your own horn anyway. I mentioned the 4 hours of sleep I get to illustrate the fact that stateside assignments are no easier than assignments overseas. As a matter of fact, those deployed to hazardous areas of the world for this "war on terrorism" are going to come back with fat pay. I know people that got paid an extra $12,000 during a routine 9-month deployment to Bosnia. Soldiers that go come back and buy new convertibles. I never said that I was more patriotic than the next person. I am not that arrogant. You stray from the topic at hand. Most soldiers have a direction and goals in life as well. You must have been a Clinton-lover because he had directions and goals in life just like you. Clinton was too good to be enlisted and his goals and directions in life took precedence over the war of his generation. You must just disdain the outstanding leaders within this nation that have served and are better leaders as a result of it. When you imply that soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines have no goals or directions (thus "forcing" them to enlist) you insult members of this board. I am also not implying that everyone who is eligible should enlist. There's plenty that have enlisted that I wish never did. The bottom line is that the attitude towards military service has sunk to the "not me, not my kid, no way" mentality. Do you want your military to be comprised solely of those for whom it was a last resort? Those are the people that barely graduated from high school. Those are the types that have no direction. Those are the types that I don't go out of my way to find.timberbeast--You are being fed a load of what was for dinner last night. If you call a recruiter, you will never be told that there is no need for you unless you are unqualified medically/morally/educationally.[This message has been edited by idsman75 (edited 10-06-2001).]
  • idsman75idsman75 Member Posts: 13,398 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    BlueTic--I saw "My Side of the Mountain" when I was a kid and thought it was a good movie too. Sniper1048--You nailed it right on the head. Our front doorsteps are no longer safe and have not been safe for so long. I wonder how long it will take the pacifists in this country to realize that.mlincoln--You may not be eligible to enlist but a person of your qualifications may want to look at civilian employee positions. A recruiting office is in the buisness of putting people into jobs that require you to go through basic training first and then follow through with rigorous physical training daily for the rest of their military service. If you have a messed-up knee the doctor must disqualify you or risk putting you in a position where you will be medically retired and receiving disability for the rest of your life. That civilian doctor is just being responsible with taxpayer dollars. If you NEED to puff on your inhaler every so often, then you may NEED it when it is laying on the ground accidentally crunched by your boot and you're 20 miles from nowhere training out in the middle of nowhere. That is a liability. A doctor clearing you for military service would be signing his own death sentence if you died out there in the middle of nowhere because you needed a puff on an inhaler that was suddenly rendered inoperative. If someone hadn't died in the past because of it, this wouldn't have become an issue. Some people are of the notion that everything the military does is in safe sterile training environments where things like that can't happen. Ask the Rangers that died of hypothermia in the Florida swamps back in the mid-90's. If you have a pre-existing condition that could be aggravated (like your knee) our could be potentially lethal (like your athsma), you are a liability. Some people here in this part of the country are of the impression that, if there is a war, they can sign up real quick and jump on the next plane to the front lines and be handed a rifle. Congress has made it law that you have to have at least 12 weeks of training before you can go to war. That means that, if we have a sudden massive reduction in force (nuke falls on Fort Bragg, NC) it would take 3 months to replace those soldiers. In effect, this means that we need to be increasing our military strength right now while we anticipate pending military action. If we re-instate the draft as a response to a catastrophe like that, it's a 12-week wait. [This message has been edited by idsman75 (edited 10-06-2001).]
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