Weapons in cars

niklasal · February 2002

The LEO Jitters post reminded me of this one. One time a few years ago I was pulled over near my parents home in Montgomery County MD, outside of NE Washington.After leaving home, I visited several homes of friends I had as a boy, saying hi to parents and seeing how my friends were doing. Immediately after I did my rounds, I get pulled over. 4 squad cars and one wagon full of recruits surrounded my vehicle. Apparently, one of my childhood buddies had grown to commit illegal sales and I was seen going to his door, and though he wasn't even home, they followed me and noted every house I stopped at. Well, they surrounded my vehicle, handcuffed me (even though there were literally 12 cops around) and proceeded to scavenge through me vehicle, asking for drugs and weapons. The only weapon I had was an ASP Baton I bought years before. Apparently frustruated at not finding any drugs or guns, they were telling each other (making sure to be in earshot of me) "Oh this could be the ASP that was stolen from a home 2 weeks ago." and threatened me with jail.After removing my backseat from the car and still finding nothing, I still had to wait because 4 officers ACTUALLY WALKED from where I got pulled over BACK TO MY HOUSE, 1/4 mile away, looking for anything that could be thrown out a window.In the end, after 2 hours of sitting handcuffed on a sidewalk, they let me go with no ticket, no charges, and mangled uphosltery. The officer in charge left me with a "I'm taking this baton. If you want it back, here's my card. Call me and I'll have a jail cell waiting for you."Given the situation, was all that really neccesary?

NIKLASAL@hotmail.com

Evil ATF · February 2002

Humph.Screw the consequences. Had that happened to me only to be concluded with the Asp comment, there would have been an Evil in the pokey and a cop getting his jaw wired.What's the world coming to?

niklasal · February 2002

Actually I did not consent to a search. Unfortunately I was young and ignorant of my rights at the time so I was just thankful I got away with no BS ticket or charges.The only probable cause I could figure was visiting that friends' house. Besides that, nothing. I wasn't smoking a cigarette, I didn't litter, nothing.

NIKLASAL@hotmail.com

idsman75 · February 2002

I'm not saying that what they did was right but how good of a friend could this have possibly been if you did not know of his activities? When a user evolves into a dealer, you are talking about a serious shift. The character of men tends to be rather consistent. He couldn't have been mamma's little angel. Something should have said, "Don't hang out with this guy," regardless of whether or not you knew he was a grower or a supplier. Dealers and growers aren't exactly the white-collar type that volunteer at the soup kitchens on Thanksgiving. Did the cop tell you that it was illegal to possess the ASP? I know of quite a few places where it would have been illegal. I'm not agreeing with the idea that it should be illegal. However, we all assume a bit of risk and accept those consequences when we arm ourselves with potentially illegal devices. I will neither confirm nor deny that I have done so myself. This thread does smack of the same type of attitude that the complainers about "racial profiling" exhibit. You are frequenting a home that is known by law enforcement to be a drug house. In those types of situations the community knows long before the cops do. That is where the cops get their intel. If a cop spots you frequenting a known drug house and driving away from it during a time when buys are most often conducted, they may have a very good reason to conduct that search. Look at it from the cop's perspective. If every vehicle before you and every vehicle after you that approached that home was there to buy dope and dope was found in those vehicles because that is the time when "Mr. Drug Dealer" is open for business, it would make perfect sense to believe that you were there for the same reason. In all likelihood this was not the case and you probably did have a case for illegal search and siezure. However, a well-ducumented investigation with surveillance footage, undercover purchases and intel gathered from the community could yield a decision by a judge to empower them to do exactly what they did. The scope of the search would probably be very limited and you could possibly be charged with any other contraband that was found incident to that search but the possibility does exist.[This message has been edited by idsman75 (edited 02-18-2002).]

niklasal · February 2002

Just to clarify...This individual I went to visit was a person I had not seen in almost 10 years. I had moved out of the neighborhood years before, and was coming back to visit my family.My friends, who I had known only as kids, were all grown up.

NIKLASAL@hotmail.com

sandman2234 · February 2002

Illegal search? Has anybody been to Loundes County, Ga. lately, and been stopped? (I-75, first county coming from flarda) They make a living, buying new patrol cars, and etc. from conviscated drug money. How do they find it? By searches, and most of them not agreed to by the owner/driver. I don't have any problem with them catching drug dealer, actually prefer them to catch them. But I don't want my car torn apart while they look for them. They tear them apart on the shoulder of the interstate and then leave the people to put them back together. Seen as many as three searches in one 33 mile drive thru the county. They are also "DOT" certified, which gives them the ability to harass big trucks too. Tenn is the only state ever to get in my rig, and he asked.. I told him he could inspect the cab, but stay out of my "Home" in the back. He just stuck his head in and asked me if I had any drugs or firearms.Figured he had me for enough already, so he didn't look too hard.

Have Gun, will travel

timberbeast · February 2002

Can't say I've ever experienced anything like that first-hand, usually the cops around here treat you the way you treat them.I do know of a guy who was stopped at a "drug check-point" some years back, they found no weapons or drugs on him, but he had ten grand in cash, and they took it on the assumption that it was drug-related. He had actually just sold a car in Chicago for cash (It was a classic Mopar, restored, but not titled). The court documents actually read "The State of Wisconsin vs. $10,000.00", since they had nothing to charge the guy with. I wonder if the money was put on the stand to testify? Wonder if it was given an attorney? The guy never got it back, and lost his house as a result. I was driving around most of the summer with between 4 and 6 grand in cash on me (I'm good at craps), sure glad I never got pulled over by the same guys! Interestingly, though, that was the first and last checkpoint in the state. Guess they made enough money! Nobody will say where it went.

njretcop · February 2002

I normally do not get involved with posts about abuse of police authority. In this case, I have decided to make an exception.Niklasal, if your tale is true (and I'm not saying that it is not), you need to get yourself to the nearest library and take out a law book. I have never heard of anyone who knows less about his civil rights than you do.Let's set the record straight here.The police cannot search ANY vehicle without the owners consent or a search warrant in hand. (The State of Arizona is the one exception to this law and they can only look for illegal plants.)Had they not searched your vehicle they would not have found your illegal ASP baton.Detained for two hours without charges being filed and being handcuffed. All of this was because they could have arrested you on the strength of the illegal search of your vehicle. Had you (and others) known your rights, none of this would have happened.You would have had a million dollar lawsuit on your hands and I know 100 lawyers who would have loved to have this case.I am not saying that what the police did to you was right, but you opened the door to your own problem when thay searched your car without the authority to do so and you did not object.We are a nation of rights. You have an obligation to yourselves to know what they are and how to make certain that they are not infringed.I hope you have learned a lesson from your experience and that it will never happen to you again.Warmest regards,-Charlie

It's the stuff dreams are made of AngelNRA Certified Firearms InstructorMember: GOA, RKBA, NJSPBA, NJ area rep for the 2ndAMPD. njretcop@copmail.com

Miss. Creant · February 2002

njretcopThese illegal searches happen all the time all over the country and usually the small guy has no recourse except to go along with them or be harrassed and set up for a make believe crime.I have seen it happen, officer says can we search your car? The driver says no. Officer then claims he has reasonable suspicion because the driver refused. two hour wait for for dirty cops to arrive and then a drug dog. Car is dismantled on the roadside and driver is left with a messed up car and explaining to do to family and friends who drove by and witnessed this display of a rogue police state. Driver only got a warning ticket for having a headlight out.99% of coppers DO NOT HAVE MY RESPECT. Because 99% of the ones I have had personal contact with have been liars and cheats, not to mention dishonest thieves. This is in the relativley crime free state of SD.

Master7thSon · February 2002

I'd like to hear what others have to say about this issue

what happens if we tell the police officer we do not want him to search our vehicle

wont they do it anyway----and wont they think we have something to hide if we say 'no!'?

wouldnt they get brutal?

timberbeast · February 2002

Never had a cop ask to search my car, but my son did, since it was 4th of July weekend, they were looking for fireworks, and, since he's 18 and has piercings, probably pot. He allowed them to search, then they pleasantly sent him on his way. I think most PEOPLE are good, and cops are people. I sure wouldn't want the job. I'm glad someone has the guts to do it. The main problem is with chiefs who have become politicians, and, I believe, with young cops who have not been properly trained in real life situations and have a chip on their shoulder. Never have seen a veteran cop act like an *.

idsman75 · February 2002

I was talking to a dealer at a gun show awhile back. He only deals in what Tom Gresham refers to as "black guns". He told a story of a stupid friend of his that consented to a search in a situation where there was no probable cause. They searched his home. The cops ran across his gun safe and asked to look inside. He consented and opened up the safe. There was an SKS inside the safe in perfectly legal configuration. The cop asked him if he could take it down to the station to see if it was a stolen gun or if it was legal for the owner to possess it. The idiot agreed and the cop walked off without giving him an evidence custody receipt or even his badge number. I've never dealt with a dirty cop but fortunately am aware of basic rights against unlawful search and siezure. That is the only way to arm yourself...unless you are on the reservation in Nebraska. Then you just let the cop do what he wants until he is done unless you want to get your head bashed into the side of your own vehicle without any legal recourse.

Weapons in cars

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