Israel Seizes Palestinian Weapons Smuggling Ship

Bullzeye · January 2002

Israel Says It Intercepted Weapons (AP) By Michele GershbergTEL AVIV (Reuters) - Israel said on Friday it had seized a Palestinian ship in the Red Sea smuggling 50 tons of mainly Iranian-supplied weapons, an announcement that cast a cloud over a U.S. envoy's renewed peace mission to the region.The Palestinians said it was a false assertion intended to sabotage a new U.S. peacekeeping mission.Nabil Abu Rdainah, a senior adviser to Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat (news - web sites), denied knowledge of the ship, which Israeli army chief Shaul Mofaz said was captured on Thursday.Mofaz said the vessel, the Karine-A, was owned by the Palestinian Authority (news - web sites) and its captain and some crew were officers in the Palestinian naval police force.``The link between the ship's crew and the Palestinian Authority and its leaders is clear and undeniable,'' Mofaz told a news conference in Tel Aviv.Abu Rdainah said the Palestinian Authority ``knows nothing about this ship which the Israelis are talking about and we are going to investigate...though we consider it Israeli propaganda in order to sabotage the mission of General Zinni.''Mofaz spoke as U.S. envoy Anthony Zinni met Arafat in the West Bank city of Ramallah in an effort to end 15 months of Israeli-Palestinian bloodshed.Zinni, who cut short his first visit last month after a wave of Palestinian suicide attacks, said afterwards that U.S.-brokered Israeli-Palestinian security meetings would resume. He did not give a timetable.``I am optimistic, hopeful and feel that we have the conditions that are right to make progress this time. And I am looking to return often and very shortly after this mission to keep the process moving,'' Zinni said.Arafat said he hoped for U.S.-led truce-to-peacemaking immediately, adding, ``Our aim is to achieve lasting peace.''Israeli forces killed a Palestinian gunman and arrested two others in a West Bank raid early on Friday as Zinni held a breakfast meeting with Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon (news - web sites).Palestinian sources said the man killed was a member of Arafat's Fatah (news - web sites) faction and a police officer. Mofaz said the army targeted a group planning a suicide attack.RIFLES, MISSILES AND EXPLOSIVESA senior Israeli government source said Zinni was briefed at the Sharon meeting about ``frantic preparations by Palestinian terrorist groups'' for attacks against Israelis and ''massive smuggling of weapons'' into Palestinian areas.Mofaz said the navy, 500 km (300 miles) from home, seized Katyusha rockets with range up to 20 km (12 miles), assault rifles, anti-tank missiles, mines, ammunition and explosives.Photos Reuters Photo Mofaz said most of the weapons were Iranian and were to have been smuggled into territory under Palestinian control.The Palestinians ``cannot continue playing the game,'' Israeli Foreign Minister Shimon Peres said in a statement. ''They have to make a strategic decision whether they support terrorism or they are against it.''Israeli officers said the ship was seized without a struggle by commandos in international waters as it traveled north in the Red Sea. They declined to give the ship's point of origin.An Israeli crew had taken over and were heading for the Israeli port of Eilat.``Official elements in the Palestinian Authority were involved in the smuggling attempt, including senior members of the Palestinian naval police with close links to senior Palestinian Authority leaders,'' Mofaz said.``If (the cargo) had reached terrorists acting against us, it could have dramatically raised the threat faced by Israeli civilians and soldiers and widened significantly the scale of terrorist attacks,'' he said.PALESTINIANS SAY SHARON PURSUES WARFollowing a series of deadly Palestinian attacks, Israel declared the Palestinian Authority a ``terror-supporting entity'' late last year. Palestinian officials denied it and said it was part of an Israeli strategy aimed at toppling Arafat.Mofaz said the smuggling attempt violated interim peace deals limiting the Palestinian Authority arsenal.Israel said eight months ago it had captured a boat in the Mediterranean with hundreds of weapons for Palestinians in Gaza.The Palestinian Authority said Friday's armor and infantry incursion into the village of Tel, in territory under its control, showed Sharon was pursuing a war against the Palestinian people despite Zinni's presence.An Israeli government source said the men targeted in the raid were involved in a bus ambush that killed 10 Israelis near a Jewish settlement in the West Bank on December 12.At the Israeli leader's Shikmim ranch in the southern Negev desert, Zinni and Sharon made no comments to reporters. But a statement by his office said Sharon pressed for increased international pressure on Arafat to crack down on militants.The Palestinian Authority has said it has arrested dozens of militants since Arafat called on December 16 for an end to attacks on Israelis. Israel says Arafat has not dismantled groups behind the deadliest attacks and demands a quiet week before moving toward peace talks.At least 800 Palestinians and 234 Israelis have been killed since the Palestinian uprising began in September 2000 after peace talks froze.

HAIRY · January 2002

Let's see here: seizing a ship in international waters. What is the definition of piracy?

It's not what you know that gets you in trouble, it's what you know that just ain't so!

Lowrider · January 2002

My guess is that the weapons were purchased in the United States by terrorists taking advantage of the dreaded "gun show loophole."

Lord Lowrider the LoquaciousMember:Secret Select Society of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets She was only a fisherman's daughter,But when she saw my rod she reeled.

badboybob · January 2002

Hairy and Lowrider make all the fun of it you like. The truth is that these people have been killing each other for at least 4,000 years. Hatred and bigotry abound on both sides. There is no hope of peace as long as "holy war" and other idiot phrases abound.

ref44 · January 2002

Also, if Israel evaporated tomorrow, the Arabs would still fight each other as long as there are two-bit thugs like Yassir Arafat on the loose.

Lowrider · January 2002

WASN'T poking fun at the Arab/Israeli situation. WAS poking fun at the American anti-gun freaks who claim middle-eastern terrorists are supplying their troops with weapons from U.S. gunshows.

Lord Lowrider the LoquaciousMember:Secret Select Society of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets She was only a fisherman's daughter,But when she saw my rod she reeled.

HAIRY · January 2002

Guys, how can you scream when the anti-gunners want to take YOUR weapons away, but when a fledging State wants to be armed, it shouldn't be? After all, remember that it is YOUR tax $$$ going to Israel in military aid that is used against the Palestinians. I just don't understand the logic.

Judge Dread · January 2002

My guess is that the weapons were purchased in the United States by terrorists taking advantage of the(dreaded)"gun show loophole." HEYYY ! Don't use my name in Vain ! I wish I was the one seizing Them !

Lowrider · January 2002

Sorry Judge. What was I thinking????

Lord Lowrider the LoquaciousMember:Secret Select Society of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets She was only a fisherman's daughter,But when she saw my rod she reeled.

Bullzeye · January 2002

HAIRY:Maybe you've got your websites crossed.The board for the Liberal Palestinian supporters is down the hall. This is where the patriotic Republicans hang out.

HAIRY · January 2002

Bullzeye: Don't patriotic Republicians think?

steve45 · January 2002

Well Hairy lets see. On one side Ive got the Israelis, people with similar values to my own. They have no problem with people of a different religion living beside them as long as their peaceful. On the other side Ive got the Palestinians. They have no tolerance for any other religion. They consider all outsiders to be infidels. They hav'nt had peace in their land for centuries. When in a fight they seem to enjoy killing women and children. And they believe that in killing those women and children and dying they will be rewarded by their God. They consider the country I live in to be the great satan of the world. And they teach this to their children, insuring that we have problems with them forever. So if Im rooting for anybody over there it would be the Isrealis.

badboybob · January 2002

Right on Steve45.

idsman75 · January 2002

Let's not forget to add that EVERY nation where "Islam" is the state-sponsored religion was converted to that religion under the sword.Now...my point. I think that Israel discovered these weapons on the basis of racial profiling. I'm sure that everyone on board the ship was of Arab descent. How insensitive and politically incorrect for Israel to racially profile like this. I think that we should hear what the ACLU has to say about this. Better to let state-sponsored terrorists get their hands on these weapons knowing that they were discovered on suspicion spawned from racial profiling. How inseeeeeeeeensitive (in my best Michael Savage impersonation).

HAIRY · January 2002

Gentlemen, please, oh please, read history. It appears you've been influenced too much by the the movie Exodus. According to your view, the Israelis are like us: in fact, the majority come from Eastern Europe or Russia. Are you suggesting the same value systems?

It's not what you know that gets you in trouble, it's what you know that just ain't so!

steve45 · January 2002

Hairy, I dont know about you but my ancesters come from England and Austria so maybe I am more like the Isrealis. I know that the way I act and think is more like them. Never seen the movie Exodus.

HAIRY · January 2002

Steve: You say you are more like the Israelis: you support stealing a person's land, destroying his home, depriving him of a means of making a living, refusing to permit those who hold citizenship all of the rights of the majority, closing the schools, and then BLAMING them for fighting back. Yep, great thinking there. BTW, according to Israeli law, I can claim the "right of return."Yes, I support the Palestinians, but anyone who has studied this issue would. Don't be surprised that there are significant numbers of Israeli citizens who agree wholeheartedly with me.My reference to "Exodus" shows a generation gap, sorry about that.

It's not what you know that gets you in trouble, it's what you know that just ain't so!

idsman75 · January 2002

The land was lost in the manner that Muslims have taken property since the time of Mohammed himself. Too bad Palestine.[This message has been edited by idsman75 (edited 01-06-2002).]

HAIRY · January 2002

Idsman75: Am I to understand you are saying that dispossessing someone is okay? Your reference to Mohammed is unclear. Don't you understand that the Christians, under their exploration policies, killed, raped, pillaged, all in the name of Christ? With your reference to the sword of the Muslims, please recheck your Christian history--it's the same thing. IMHO, it is the religious idea, common to Judism, Christianity, Muslim, etc., that if you don't believe in MY god, then I'll kill you. BTW, the only religion (philosophy) that wasn't--and isn't--spread by the sword is Buddhism.

steve45 · January 2002

The Isrealis had ancesters in this area for centuries. They made a claim for this land and had the firepower to hold it. This is the way it has always been done and will always be. When you think of how the U.S. handled its native peoples the Isrealis have been tame. Yes the Palestinians have the right to fight. And in my opinion the Isrealis have the right and the power to destroy them. That they havn't yet even though they could is the differece between Isrealis and Palestinians.

thebutcher · January 2002

steve45, Israelies do not allow others to peacefully practice their religion any more than Muslims do. A large percentage of Palestinians are Christians. Don't be fooled. Bullzeye, In case you need clarification, liberals support Israel, not Palestine.

The definition of an "expert":An "X" is an unknown quantity and a "spurt" is a drip under pressure.[This message has been edited by thebutcher (edited 01-07-2002).]

Bullzeye · January 2002

This is all my perception, btw, so dont go thinking I'm some sort of racist nutjob.Some Liberals support the Israeli cause because Liberals feel concern for the rights of "minorities" (blacks, asians, hispanics, jews, muslims, etc.).By the same token, some Liberals support the Palestinian cause because, while not the minority race in the Middle East, they are (in their mind, at least) the "minority" race in Israel.However: I think most Liberals support Palestine because: A) the Republican administration supports Israel,

Liberals are disgusted at the idea of a country defending itself from minority group attackers within its own borders. Minority groups are supposed to be given the benefit of the doubt at all times and their conduct excused from normal scrutiny.C) Liberals are easily influenced by the death toll numbers, ignoring that fact that there are more Palestinian casualties simply because the Palestinians are the ones doing the attacking, and usually getting killed in the process.

thebutcher · January 2002

That may all be true. In Congress though, liberals overwhelmingly support Israel and conservatives typically do not.

The definition of an "expert":An "X" is an unknown quantity and a "spurt" is a drip under pressure.

Bullzeye · January 2002

Well fine then. Call me a Liberal if you want.But the Palestinians are a bunch of bloodthirsty savages who wouldnt know what to do if they didnt have Israeli civillians to kill in the name of their almighty god Allah.Or something ridiculous like that. Who the hell cares.

HAIRY · January 2002

Bullzeye: Yeah, you're right. The Palestinians lived there in peace prior to the Zionist movement and the massive influx of Jews from Europe in the 1940's. The Palestinians have no right to complain their lands were stolen. Their gripe about the US helping the Zionists occupy their land certainly doesn't give them a right to do anything about it. After all, Bullzeye, if another government moved some people into your area and moved you out, what's the problem? You'd agree, right?Sure you would.

beachmaster73 · January 2002

Some of you guys mindlessly supporting Israel should go back and study a little bit of your history before you make some of these preposterous claims. Why not check out the Balfour Declaration of 1920 and the Zionist politics of England between 1880 and of the 1930's. How do you take an area that in 1945 is 70% Arab and arbitrarily call it Israel for the exclusive use of Jews? As King Ibn Saud of Saudi Arabia said in 1945, "Give them(the Jews) and their descendents the choicest lands and homes of the Germans who oppressed them." Anybody who is idiotic enough to think that Israel is our friend should be able to explain the Israeli government's decision to cold bloodedly murder and butcher American sailors on board the USS Liberty in an attempt to conceal the truth from the world to what they were doing when they began their surprise attacks on Egypt and Syria. At least the Japanese had the decency to attempt to notify us that they were attacking Pearl Harbor. The Israelis using US provided F4 Phantoms machine gunned and bombed Americans without respite using the Stars and Stripes flying from the truck of the Liberty as their aiming point. Anybody complaining about Yaser Arafat has only to look at the murdering swine and assasin David Ben-Gurien first leader of Israel to see what true scum is. Great thread though you guys. Beach

thebutcher · January 2002

I am not calling you are a liberal, bullzeye. I am merely saying that if someone is not pro-israel that hardly means they "got their websites crossed." Considering the billions of our tax dollars sent there, more than likely the contrary is true.[This message has been edited by thebutcher (edited 01-08-2002).][This message has been edited by thebutcher (edited 01-08-2002).]

Xracer · January 2002

If this were 1946, '47, or '48, the story would read:PALESTINE (Reuters) - Great Britain said on Friday it had seized a Zionist ship in the Red Sea smuggling 50 tons of mainly Czechoslovakian-supplied weapons, an announcement that cast a cloud over a U.S. envoy's renewed peace mission to the region."The only thing new is the history you don't know." .....Harry S. Truman

Bullzeye · January 2002

I dont mindlessly support any government.I think the situation over there smells fishy, if you want to know the truth. I realize Israel has a checkered history. So does America.But I refuse to give the slightest sliver of recognition or support to an "organization" who's members think that strapping a nail-bomb to their back and blowing themselves up in a crowded Sbarros is an okay thing.These dirtbags would (and have) tortured babies to get what they want. They exist for the sole purpose of breeding more like themselves, and then training them to kill innocents without hesitation or remorse.They have no morals, no scruples, and no sense of dignity or decency (or hygiene, for that matter).They are the worst form of terrorists, and in my and many other people's eyes their pitiful little lives are worth less than pond scum. Luckily, the Israelis have good methods of dealing with them, en masse.Hanging takes too long.

beachmaster73 · January 2002

X-ring, x-racer. Amazing how ignorant some other people can be. Beach

competentone · January 2002

Relax guys, Bin Ladin & Co. will smuggle an Iraqi nuclear bomb (or two, or three) into Israel--making all your arguments meaningless...(That's why the Palestinians are "frantic" for small arms--they're getting ready for the day TSHTF.)(Now I'm beginning to sound like Judge Dread!)

beachmaster73 · January 2002

Competone.....I think Israel already knocked out the Iraqi nuclear weapons program. I don't think an Iraqi renewal of that program would get by the Moussad either. Beach

badboybob · January 2002

Hey Bullzeye, you're sounding better all the time.When the Isrialies won the 1948(?) war the surrounding arab nations urged to palastinians to leave so that the arabs could "push the Jews into the sea". The palastinians left, the arabs lost. The Israilies pleaded with the palastinians to stay saying they were needed. They instead opted for refugee camps. They have only themselves to thank.The problem with the moslems is that they cannot accept other religious beliefs, while most other religions can.

thebutcher · January 2002

"These dirtbags would (and have) tortured babies to get what they want. They exist for the sole purpose of breeding more like themselves, and then training them to kill innocents without hesitation or remorse.They have no morals, no scruples, and no sense of dignity or decency (or hygiene, for that matter)."You might get cheers from some on this board for this, but not from me. Do you know any arabs or muslims? I am surprised this thread wasn't deleted.

beachmaster73 · January 2002

Hey badboybob....where do you think the Arabs came up with the concept of "Holy War"? They sure as hell didn't dream it up. Christians in an initial attempt to get back the Holy Lands fostered the Crusades on the Arabs. While the first Crusades may have been filled with Christian ferver or religious zealotry(you get the picture); later Crusades were nothing but a money making opportunity for the Christian leaders of the world at that time. Also Muslims consider both Christians and Jews as "People of the Book(The Bible)" and respect their religious beliefs. During the Persian Gulf War I carried a Koran and a Bible; knowing that if I were captured by an Iraqi he would at least recognize the Koran if not The Bible and treat me as a "Person of the Book". I did the same in Somalia for the same reason. Don't confuse the political hatred for the state of Israel that many Middle Eastern Moslem countries display with hatred of the Jewish religion. Moslems also practice tolerance....they too have religious fanatics and extremists just like Christianity does. Have you ever run across some of the Christian bigots in the South who believe every version of Christianity except their own is invalid? I tire of their intolerance.....most of them also are dirty and need a bath. You have a great day, Beach.

salzo · January 2002

Badboybob- Did the Israelis win? It was always my understanding that they were given the land by the United Nations.

Happiness is a warm gun

badboybob · January 2002

Beach you are absolutely right about the crusades. But that was 1,000 years ago. What does it have to do with today's mess.I say again untill the arabs stop teaching hatred of all others to their children there will be no peace in the middle east. And yes Salzo they did win by force of arms. The arabs couldn't then or now fight for s@@t. [This message has been edited by badboybob (edited 01-08-2002).]

salzo · January 2002

Well I guess one could say about the giving of Israel to the Jews by the United Nations "Well that was 50 years ago, what does that have to do with whats going on today."

Happiness is a warm gun

beachmaster73 · January 2002

Salzo...The Palestine was given the Zionists by the UN after England had given up trying to work out a compromise between the two parties. England had ruled the Palantate prior to WWII. The United Nations did come up with a compromise of two Palestines and international city status for Jerusalem under UN trusteeship. Arabs in particular were dissatisfied with the UN decision. They thought the Jews had received the best land and cities. In May of 1948 six Arab countries attacked Jewish Palestine and were quickly defeated. During the fighting native Arab Palestinians were transported from Jewish areas to UN controlled refugee camps. The Israelis did practice some ethnic cleansing of some Arab towns for many Arabs who didn't want to leave the farms their families had owned for generations. And from those first refugee camps the displaced Palestinians started their fight to regain their homeland. And yes an entire generation has grown up believing it is worthwhile to die while throwing a bomb to destroy the Jewish settlers in their homeland. This issue is not going to be solved during the lifetime of anyone on this forum. BeachOh yeah...after the Jews won the war they were not interested in the two Palestine concept as envisioned by the UN...can't say I disagree with them; but it might have solved some of the problemswe have today...instead of giving the Gaza strip to Egypt and the West Bank to Jordan.[This message has been edited by beachmaster73 (edited 01-08-2002).]

Patrick Odle · January 2002

Ole arafata%%$# has come out of hiding. mustmake some of the members who were claiming there was such a thing as an arab innocentcower in the face of real truth.Why in hell Don't we leave Isrial alone,theyare not dropping bombs and food on the same people.

HAIRY · January 2002

Beachmaster73: I commend you for your knowledge of the Middle East. As an aside, you are probably aware that the phrase, "push them into the sea" was taken from an Israeli political speech in the Kessnet (sp)and then picked up by the Palestinians! It appears those who actually spent time in the Middle East and were able to meet Arabs, Coptics (Egyptian Christians), Lebanonese, Palestinians, Turks, etc., have a very different opinion on the situation than those who are prey to the media's propaganda. Oh well, perhaps some education from a difference point of view may occur.

Israel Seizes Palestinian Weapons Smuggling Ship

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