The ccasey612 post

varmit hunter

I find the depth of ignorance on this thread sickening, I cant believe I fight for the right for some of you to own a gun.

Let me try and save some of you big time misery.Forget that many states have many different laws.All ccw laws pertain to the use of deadly force. Deadly force being the key word.If you shoot the bad guy, And when the law shows up. You shoot your mouth off with (Well I could have taken him out,But I shot him in the leg to teach him a lesson).You have just used excessive force. Don't bother to call a attorney. Just give the guy the keys to your house,cars,safety deposit box, And every thing you own are will ever own.

Now if you are aiming at center of mass, And hit him in the leg,Under the law you are just a poor shot.You can only fire your gun for one reason. That is to use deadly force to Stop a threat.Threat has many different interpretations in different states. Excessive force has only one interpretation.You just lost it all.

To show just what can happen to you,When you wont to get cute. Many of you know I am a predator caller. Some of my buddies thought it would be neat to call in coyotes, And shoot them with a paint ball gun. Neat idea right. Nope that is harassment of wild life. If it takes place on Federal property. You have big time trouble. I can shoot a coyote's leg off with a 22/250. As long as I am trying to kill him, No problem. You shoot him with a paint ball gun , And you are going to jail. Now I am talking about coyotes folks.

It is very apparent many of you have never had a human being in your sites. Trust me,You wont be thinking about shooting him. Instead you will be praying, He will give you a reason not to take his life.

Some of the comments that have been made here. Make me sick at my stomach. I don't know if you are just shooting your mouths off. Or is it a case of pure ignorance. Some of you give true meaning to the expression (GUN NUT). That is what scares me the most.

Bullzeye,If you introduce your self to Sara Brady. I feel sure she will put you on here pay roll. You have to be one of the worst things for our side, I have ever seen.

The most important things, Are not things.

woodsrunner

AMEN!!!!!!!!!

How big a boy are ya?

RugerNiner

No matter how the incident happened, I don't make any statements without a Lawyer. He could have taken shots at me and I still would not make any statements without a lawyer. The reasons I do what I do stay with me, my lawyer can make up what happened, after all isn't that why Lawyers have a bad reputation?

Remember...Terrorist are attacking Civilians; Not the Government. Protect Yourself!

He Dog

Varmit, tell us how you really feel, forget that PC holding back!
Remember at his age Bullz is pretty much awash in testosterone, and he is poorly socialized to go with it.

sodbuster

varmit hunter
You are dead center correct on this. When you squeeze the trigger, your life is going to change forever. If you know that by squeezing that trigger that you or your family is still alive, nothing else matters. I think that Saxon Pig and Alpine were right on on their posts also.

"Just my opinion."

William81

Very good reply VM....You said some things I was trying to figure out how to put into words....

Guns only have two enemies: Rust and Liberals....

BoltactionMan

I had to find the post and read it. Varmit you are 100% correct. We practice for the eventuality but we should all pray that we NEVER have to use it. My minimal LEO training said "You fire your weapon to stop life threatening action." Stealing a toy and fleeing is not life threatening. ccasey did the right thing. Neither he nor his family were injured in this exchange and that is the single most important thing.

Thank the Lord that most of you people have some sense. The rest of you better think about your posts and ponder what will happen to you and your families if you fire your weapon and actually strike someone with the projectile. Legally, ethically and personally.

KC

jastr

For those who dont agree with vm and the rest of us on the other thread. Youll do more harm too our cause than good. sorry too say.

lets all be responsible! shoot a criminal! Remember 0% of firearms pull there own trigger!

RugerNiner

varmit hunter;
You mentioned CCW in your post and said nothing about what you would do in your own home. The original post had to do with a person in their home. Certainly these are two totally different subjects. First of all everybody knows not to pull a gun out in public unless you are going to use it. But in the Home anything goes, here in Florida you can shoot a person to protect property, in PA. you can not. It would be foolish to purposely wound someone in public, in your own home who's to say how good of a shot you are especially in dim light.

Remember...Terrorist are attacking Civilians; Not the Government. Protect Yourself!

JustC

Notice also that some of us who have experience with the law also stated our responces very clearly, although I think some of the members get wrapped up in their personal feelings and don't comprehend completely. I stated, "he knocked me to the floor and I fired to stop the threat when I hit the floor, feeling I was in immenint danger" "just so happens it hit him in the (insert body part here)". This is all of course while my lawyer is within arm length, and has already coached my proper statement. The great thing about this country is that you can have your own opinion. therefore, if you wish to remain a victim of crime and shroud it in a thought about doing the right thing, that's your perrogative. Mine is to defend my family AND property, and that's MY perrogative. I work and pay taxes for what I have and no crackhead/heroin addict is going to take it away because he feels that he needs his drugs without a job, or feels that society owes him something because he was abused or poor or what the hell ever cop-out excuse is politicaly acceptable at that point in time, is ever going to take it away from me. I guess when I want a new boat/car, etc,I'll just go to someones house and steal it. That seems to be acceptable to some of us.


As for ccasey612's family, they were already safe, therefore that point is mute.

RugerNiner, you need a neighbor? We can start our own little "watch" program.

A great rifle with a junk scope,....is junk.

varmit hunter

Justc,This post has been on my mind for several days. I was not going to respond, As you can plainly see I have changed my mind.

It seems my post on when to use a gun was taken as me being timid. I will not go into how many occasions I have used a gun. I am awakened in the middle of the night with some of those memories. I will share one little story with you, Since you doubt my thoughts on response to crime.

A few months back we stopped at a local convince store.Good neighborhood, Middle of the day. A scumbag came flying out the door, Owner right behind him. The owner grabs the SB, And they start wrestling. I get out on my crutches, At this point I am about ten feet away. The SB pulls a knife out of his pocket. Texas law says inside of 21' of a knife, You get to be John Wayne. I told him to drop the knife. He said "What are you going to do about it?. You old crippled Bast#rd". I pulled my Colt commander, And told him the old crippled Bast#rd was through talking. He decided a jury was a better choice than a Hydro Shock.

Yes I could have pulled the trigger, Been on the news that night, And even carved a notch in my gun. I could have, But I did not. Trust me had he taken another step I would have.

The point of my post was Think about why you are pulling the trigger, And how your life will change after you do. I have been called many things in 57 years. Timid is not one off them. I have pulled a gun and I have used a gun. It is my biggest hope that I never have to do either one again.

The most important things, Are not things.

Bullzeye

I dont think the way I do because I'm trying to be macho.
I dont think the way I do because I'm trying to prove something.
I dont think the way I do because I'm a sadist.

Want to know the truth? I'm sick and tired of seeing the American man wasting away into a gnarled, timid shadow of it's former self, all curled up in a fetal position on the floor, and begging the bad men not to make him fight back.

"Please! Take anything! Take my money, my car, my children, my wife, my decency, my honor, my integrity, my sense of safety! Anything! Take it all but for God's sake just dont force me to fight back!"

I've seen it for years and years, and it just sickens me. It makes me physically ill to see this crap.

Did you know that in a national survey, something like 40% of Americans "would like to be able to use lethal or permanently debilitating force against an attacker, but just didnt know if they could bring themselves to do it.

That, my friends, is not normal.
That is not concern for your fellow man.
That is not sympathy, or pity, or any other stupid rationalization the Liberals like to use.

That right there is a nation so concerned for the welfare of the bottom-dwellers, so concerned for the FEELINGS of the bottom-dwellers, so concerned for the DAMNED RIGHTS of the bottom-dwellers to ply their sickening trade, that they would rather undress, assume the position, and hope he doesnt hurt 'em too bad before they would raise a hand to stop the insanity.

I'm afraid for this country. I really am. It's become taboo to defend yourself, or your property, or your right to be left the hell alone.

Bottom line: The law may try and control my actions, but it can never control my principles.

The law says a criminal breaking into my house has rights? Well I say he doesnt.

And, (and I say this with 100% pure honesty. No BS.) if it comes right down to it, I'd rather take my chances in court than bury my principles.

That's why I hope to hell no one ever breaks into my house.

Now bring on the boos and hisses cause I'm sure you've all got a stick to poke with. Hurry up with it.

Edited by - Bullzeye on 06/09/2002 17:53:55

Bullzeye

And for the record I dont disagree with ccasey612's decision.

I hope I never have to deal with a situation like that. I'm thankful as hell he didnt end up getting hurt, or end up in legal trouble.

I wouldnt wish that on anyone. It's a helluva position for a law-abiding citizen with a family and a conscience to deal with.

My anger is reserved for the laws that force decent citizens to consider the feelings of a criminal who has just invaded your home.

Laws dont come out of thin air. They require support. And that's the sad part.

varmit hunter

Bullzeye.I think I said I was standing on crutches with a Colt commander in my hand.Now that may not be real macho looking, But it is a damn far piece from the fetal position.

The most important things, Are not things.

whiteclouder

Varmit:

You are of course spot on. We had this discussion about 18 months ago when we could have serious, lucid and useful discussions. Most of us older ones agreed, there is too much at stake that you don't know about until it's too late. The guy who pulls the trigger suffers too, believe me. Right or wrong, a death will haunt you. Is a trinket worth it? I don't think so.

Clouder..



Bullzeye

quote:I've seen it for years and years...

You haven't been here for years and years, boy. Don't you wish now you hadn't tried that 18-year-old BS, bullzeye? Nobody believes a word you say; you are incredible, unreliable and shallow.

Maintenance is a *, ain't it? Next time you'll listen to ol' Clouder..

Clouder..

COONASS

I feel that this great country is in the shape it is as far as criminals go because: This USA has become soft in the prosecution area. Criminals know that most of the time they will get slapped,at most, on the wrist. Back in Sept A ex-worker was murdered in his home and his wife was shot in the stomach , This person is still going through our court system...This is a open\close case.....Caught leaving the scene along with many eye witnesses......He should have been put to death by now........But hasn't even gone to trail yet..

If we start using the max punishment on these folks , many would think twice before doing a wrong.......

The others that make it to jail , should be put to hard labor just like in the good days..........not lay up in the A\C all day watching cable TV and eating three meals .....

To answer the thread I have never pulled a gun out on anyone and I hope I never will. But I'm like most of you ,if you pull it use it..........

If we just go back to the way John Wayne did it.......The streets wouldn't be this bad........

coonass

We Live in a World of Give And Take, But A Lot Of People Won't Give What it Takes.

Edited by - COONASS on 06/09/2002 22:25:35

Bullzeye

Bravo Mr. COONASS! Wish there were more like you.

Mr. Tapeworm: For a man who "supposedly" (and I accent that word strongly) has such vast military experience as yourself, you seem awfully timid when it comes to dealing justice to criminals.

The ignorance has been there from the start, but the Liberal-esque cowardice is a new thing. Perhaps you burglarized houses yourself at one point, and that's where your alliance with the criminals stems from.

Interesting...

ccasey612

I have to step in and say that the decision I made that night I do not regret. I work very hard for everything I get. The perp had no right taking any thing from my home regardless of the fact it was a $200 game. When I walked down the stairs and seen a very very large man turn around and look at me I had to raise my weapon. He seen it and darted out the back door. If I did not have my weapon he may have darted at me. After going over my house to make sure nonthing else was missing I found that my wifes bag with all of her ID's in it was gone. My emergency ice cream stash ($250) was gone and my entire knife set which could have been used against me had I not had my gun was gone as well. As mentioned before the things that I own mean and may cost alot to me but a human life is priceless. When that happened to me I felt violated and wanted to pull the trigger but could not because of that. On the other hand if I would have found him upstairs say by the room my 3 year old was sleeping it would have been another thing. I did not become a shooter to kill. I became one for 2 reasons. I love to shoot and to protect my family at all cost.

Thanks for all the advise guys.

If you will blame gun makers for every shooting then blame car maker for every car accident.

COONASS

cc612........I too agree with you to a point.........How do (did) you know that this man had not been in your home for some time and been upstairs in your girls room.(god forbid) And you just happen to hear him when he went back down stairs.....Depending where you live , I would have at least unloaded the clip in the back yard. That hopefully would make him think twice about the next time his fingers start to itch................Also not shooting...........His next home invasion could be someone you know with a lot different turn out....A old lady or young lady living alone???????This person did it once he will most likely do it again...........NO ONE here can tell what you should have done, because EVERY situation is different....

coonass

We Live in a World of Give And Take, But A Lot Of People Won't Give What it Takes.

JustC

Varmit Hunter, I think you may have SLIGHTLY misunderstood. I was in no way calling you timid my friend. I was offering another point of view to yours. I COMPLETELY understand your position as to the killing factor. I have been in the hunting situation and had someone in the crosshairs, due to their ignorance, not mine. I know how that felt, and I didn't even kill that guy, he just popped out of the marsh right into my scope. I just knew I was getting a big buck!!! What I am saying is, probably the same sort of thing as COONASS. I beleive our country is in a state of moral decay. I see the youth, who is not that far behind me, BTW, and I see their attitudes and demeanor. The fact that the scum of the earth and society, can go and steal your possesions and walk away because YOU may be prosecuted is absolutely discusting to me. These people need to be punished, and not by some BS time in the prison with TV and weights, and pool tables, and hot food, etc etc. They need to be walking the highways and biways cleaning up garbage. They need to be worked like dogs, every day for their entire sentence. Once the prison is no longer a better alternative than some of their lives on the outside, they will change their way of thinking and actions. Their labor will help to pay for their cost to the taxpayer. When the tide goes wayyyyy out like it usually will 2 or 3 times a year, they need to be cleaning up all the garbage they can get to along the rivers and bays. I can go on and on, but it is simple, the criminals run the game now. We have to just sit back and take it. I have no use for some BS arrest of breaking and entering. HE WAS IN MY HOME, NEAR MY WIFE, AND SOMEDAY, MY CHILD!!!! I was maybe venting a little bit, and in no way meant to totally direct my rage reguarding our liberal justice system at you. My apologies if you thought that, I have spoken to you off of the boards and don't figure you for a wuss. You have some years of wisdom that are ahead of mine, and I appreciate that. I am the x-generation, but not one of the ever disrespectful and totaly technologicaly dependant little couch potatoes that seem to be everywhere I look. I am smart enough to see that a change needs to take place in our ways of thinking and punishment on domestic and international ne'er-do-wells, Or I fear for our countries future.

A great rifle with a junk scope,....is junk.

varmit hunter

Justc,Thanks we feel the same, We just let the steam out a little different. You would enjoy driving the roads down here. In our county, There prisoners are dressed in the old black and white striped uniforms. They are then put to work on the county roads, Ball parks,etc. It will be 95 here today with about98%humidity. No rehabilitation, Just plain work and sweat there asX off. Texas gets a lot of flack for how many death penalties we hand out. I for one am proud of it. The aria I live in is very hard on criminals..Two years ago my wife was Forman of a jury. The case involved a 36 year old man who raped his 12 year old neighbor on Christmas eve. I asked if she would have trouble with this case, Because he was eligible for the death penalty. The day of the deliberations, She was home early. She got out of the car with a big smile saying "It only took us two hours to give that SOB death".

I guess I am not as frustrated as some of you. They don't get off easy around here. We had a former sheriff who was running a drug business. While in office. He is now spending life with is former customers.

To show you the difference here. I was on my crutches in a store the other day. A leo came up and asked me if I had a carry permit. I asked him why did he wont to know.(Your gona love this one). He said that there had been a increase of attacks on handicapped people. He said I just wonted to know if they nock you down, Can you protect yourself?. I eased my vest back, And he had a big smile. In a whispered voice , I was told if they knock you down, Drop them, And call us.

C keep those groups tight, And hope you catch a lot off fish this summer. Catch a few for me. I am finally going to sell my off shore rig. Tired of seeing it just sit. Take care.

The most important things, Are not things.

Bullzeye

I think most of us are on the same page here.

Like varmint hunter said, we all just express it in different ways.

My question: How did it come about that someone with malicious intent who breaks into your private residence and makes off with your hard-earned posessions has any rights at all?

Your home is supposed to be your last bastion of safety. It is your last vestige of privacy, your last vestige of (mostly) free choice (what you do in there), and the place where you keep your family.

When we allow people who intrude on that RIGHTS, we have lost the war, and may as well forfeit our rights.

Thievery is so common these days, we're just expected to take it with a grain of salt and go about our lives oblivious. Anyone who is willing to break into a house with people still in it probably wouldnt think twice about neutralizing anyone who caught him. Or maybe picking up some fringe benefits along the way if the only occupant is a woman...

One bullet means one less scumbag who has the chance to help destroy this country.

PS- If you wanted to be charitable, I would think a barrage of 12-ga. rubber baton rounds delivered to the head and groinal area might do the trick too. But you'd get hammered even worse legally for doing that.

Warpig883

VarmintHunter

Are you sickened by the fact that many of us would defend our familyies by shooting someone or are you sickened by the folks who are saying in effect kill em all and let god sort em out?

I for one who not hesitate to shoot an intruder if I felt myself or my family threatened in any way. It would be legal for me to do so. I might be pissing myself and praying to god when I do it but I can assure you I would do it.

If this makes me a immoral, antisocial, irresponsibal cretin then I guess that is what I am. However I would much rather have the afore mentioned description describe me than be dead or have to mourn the loss or injury of one of my family.

This brings up the question of pets. I have a dog that would protect me with it life. Would I kill a person who is putting the dogs life in danger? I really don't know, I don't know if I could do it. I would definately want to but probably could not pull the trigger.

varmit hunter

Warpig,Any threat to my family, your family, are any one else's live I will double tap, Empty the clip, What ever it takes to STOP the threat. Read what I said about the guy with the knife. I could have easily, But I did not have to.

I was sickened that some people wonted to shoot them in the leg, Knee what ever. I am trying to point out, If the situation calls for deadly force, By all means use it.I will. If you shoot people in the leg as punishment you will then be guilty of excessive force. It seems as some folks want a sliding scale. In the foot for my chain saw, In the knee for my lawnmower.Etc.

My five dogs are members of my family, according to my vet bill.

The most important things, Are not things.

Warpig883

Then we are in agreement on all points


It is very easy to takes written words the wrong way on the computernet.

Bullzeye

Why dont we just make it legal to shoot burglars, and then we'll all be in agreement?

There are more than a few people on this very board who claimed that DEATH was an acceptable penalty for drug use!

So am I now to believe that burglary in an occupied house is less of a crime?

Kill the criminals and let God sort it out sounds just about right to me.