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Sorry, you're right. Pythagorean and Pythagoras - I hate it when I do that.
Do I still get credit for the 'whole hand and and a thumb thing'? Or is one of your hands always fully occupied otherwise, wink-wink, nod-nod, know what I mean?
Bullseye...how about that gentleman that went by the name of Stoner? Doesn't he deserve to be listed among the Americans? Seems that his design has done well in some circles.
Little people talk about people,regular people talk about things,and big people talk about ideas.
Whiteclouder- I enjoyed the "whole hand and a thumb" comment immensely.
Since we are talking about Pythagoras(sp?) It is interesting to note that along with his famous "theorem", he was the founder of the modern musical scale.
"The powers delegated by the proposed constitution to the federal governmentare few and defined, and will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace negotiation, and foreign commerce"
-James Madison
Before we get to far away from A. Eisntien, I wanted to say, I never cared ti much for this guy, cause he had espoused Socialism, and being the independent thinker that I am, I see socialism with the same "swollen red eye" I look upon all other "isms"; choosing CAPITALLISM as the best of the lot.
Those who consider themselves "academics" (teachers, professors, social scientists, so called think tankers, philosophers ,etc.) are also, for socialism; since they are one way or another ALL supported by government purse strings and the Fed. Department of Ed coffers, and since they know how to do basic math, (add and substract), they can see the advantages of Socialism for themselves.
I mean after all its very profitable to get 1,000's of dollars to study the same old issues thru the government free handouts for this study and that sudy, ie: Do, Mosquitos with green eyes live longer than brown eyed mosquitos? or how many studies does it take to understand the "Life cycle of a Chimpazee?".
Anyhow, back to Eisntein, here is a web link, on a paper he wrote on why socialism, is necessary? written in 1949.
The real issue is that peoples civil rights are violated by those who own the medias and big business, who really take the power of the elecorate away from them because they (the media and big business) separate the represented from their representatives, thru the use of lobbying and carefully picking and choosing news articles, which represent the real issues before the people.
So, instead of solving these problems, our government passes a law that restricts political advertising by individuals in the news media xxx # days before elections.
When in fact, what ought to happen, lobbying ought to be restricted, and the news ought to restricted to reporting the news, giving both viewpoints on all issues that affect nationl, social, and constitutional issues.
I was just getting over being upset for congress passing this law early this year, when I ran across this 1949 article.
I'm mad again..
"The great object is that every man.... everyone who is able may have a gun." Patrick Henry
My mistake. Stoner certainly deserves to be on the list. His designs arent perfect, and I'm not a huge fan of the traditional caliber they employ, but he's put a lot of thought into his models and been around for a long time.
7mm:
Sheesh man, didnt ya notice all the Americans I put up there? I even included Hiram Maxim, the designer of the first real machine gun, the Maxim '08. Even John Moses didnt have his machine gun out until 9 years later in 1917.
This country may have some gifted weapons designers in it's history (as I noted), but we're far from the only ones. To ignore the achievements and innovations of foreign designers simply because of xenophobia is ridiculous and totally counterproductive.
I appreciate the efforts of Browning, Colt, and Winchester as much as the next guy, but they had to start from something.
Black-powder handguns, rifles, and cannons were invented in England and France. Should we have shunned those innovations out of nationalistic scorn during the Revolutionary War, for instance, and fought the British with bows and arrows?
Innovation is innovation. It doesnt matter where it comes from.
And I'm not about to stop driving a Japanese car that gets great gas mileage and costs several thousand dollars less than a comprable American model because our grandfathers fought a war half a century ago.
And I'm not going to stop shooting my SKS because it was produced in China, or my AK because it was designed in the USSR.
At best, I'm reaping the fruit of my enemy's toil. At worst, I'm admitting that sometimes, pragmatism supersedes bull-headed Jingoism.
Lets talk more about this. I would honestly like to hear what you have to say about it. This could get interesting, and maybe you'll change my mind.
Clouder:
Yes, I'll still give you credit for the "a whole hand and a thumb" thing. You get a gold star for the day. Here's a cookie.
Well Bullzeye, to refresh your memory as to why I said that I would have to go to cyber space and look up all the poofed threads to copy the quotes made by you. You have made a few comments that I will probably never forgive you for. For one, how many times have you outright insulted the USA for weapon choice? How many times have you compared our military to communist militaries? How many times have you claimed that the USA is not as smart as the lessor countries and that the KIAs are dead because of weapon choice? No matter what the intentions of your post was, it hit me right in the heart, all I see when you post those names are the insults you have thrown at YOUR brothers, the men who fought and died for you so that you may have this country to call home.
Anyhow, have a nice night, I don't feel like gettin into a knock down drag out over this. Very sore subject for me.
quote:
For one, how many times have you outright insulted the USA for weapon choice?
I've never insulted the USA for the weapons choices of the military. One does not at all dovetail with the other. I dont agree with the the choice of the US military for it's standard infantry rifle, but that's never meant I blame the US as a whole. That's silly.
quote:How many times have you compared our military to communist militaries?
You seem to have the idea of hating Communism and learning from it mixed up. If we have the chance to learn from an enemy and put it to our own uses, how can you possibly find fault with that? If you arent willing to do that, then YOU are the one who is disrespecting the US and it's soldiers. If a captured or observed enemy innovation could help us make a better fighting force, then we'd be criminally bull-headed and ignorant to ignore it. Pride is a sin, remember?
quote:How many times have you claimed that the USA is not as smart as the lessor countries and that the KIAs are dead because of weapon choice?
I have never said the US as a nation is not as smart as "lesser countries". We hold a massive advantage in every single technological category, from helicopters and jets to armored vehicles. We equip, train, and transport our troops better than any country in the world. Which is why, when I see an area where I (and others) believe we need to fix something, I dont hesitate to bring it up.
The other thing: have you ever read Sun Tzu's "The Art of War"? One of the biggest rules is never underestimate your enemy. To sneer haughtily, and pooh-pooh the technology of another nation is to court disaster. Example: No one worried too much about Mogadishu. Rusty AK-47s and inaccurate RPGs manned by untrained dirt-poor nobodies. Uncle Sam need not worry. Until suddenly those unstable and inaccurate RPGs took down two mighty Blackhawks, and those back-country * with their rusty (and outdated, and inaccurate) AK-47s were tearing the Rangers a new one like no one had done since World War II.
Especially in this day and age, no nation can be discounted as harmless or ignorant. We should learn everything we can wherever we go. THAT is what saves the lives of soldiers and wins wars.
quote:No matter what the intentions of your post was, it hit me right in the heart, all I see when you post those names are the insults you have thrown at YOUR brothers, the men who fought and died for you so that you may have this country to call home
Dude, I'm truly sorry you feel that way. I really am. I dont know what caused you to feel this way. I know you're not an ignorant man. So why is it that suggesting that someone like Kalashnikov or Simonov deserves recognition for their achievements disgust you so much?
So what, should we ban all foreign arms from our shores? Make posessing anything other than a Remington shotgun or a Smith and Wesson revolver a crime? How about we start burning books about the history of the AK or the Mauser?
What the hell are we then, 7mm? We're the damn Khmer Rouge, that's what we are. We're the Nazis. We're an isolationist, xenophobic, hateful and ignorant bunch of hermits.
Bottom line: To ignore or discount ANY innovation or advancement that would give our soldiers a better chance of coming out of that battle alive, is disgusting, shameful, and ignorant.
Bullzeye...did you know that the original Stoner design was .308 and only much later he was asked by our government to do a .223 version? The original should stand as our countrys best new design,but few people know that.The .223 was not his idea.Works for me though.Soon I will have one of each caliber.Best of both worlds.
Little people talk about people,regular people talk about things,and big people talk about ideas.
quote:
Bullzeye...did you know that the original Stoner design was .308 and only much later he was asked by our government to do a .223 version?
Actually, I did not know that. I know very little about the history of ArmaLite and Gene Stoner.
But to be honest, it's not just the caliber that bugs me.
If a gun is built and designed properly, why the hell does it need a "forward assist lever", AKA "if it dont fit, just slam it the hell in there"?
Why have other countries who could afford M-16s if they wanted to stuck with their stock of AK-47s and FALs? This is especially prevalent in the African countries, where AK's and M-16's are both plentiful, and similarly priced.
I'd say the African dust and rain have taught them something. But I cant confirm it. Maybe I'll do a research study.
Comments
Perhaps brothers seperated at birth?
Gosh, you get a history lesson every day here on GB, doncha?
Sorry, you're right. Pythagorean and Pythagoras - I hate it when I do that.
Do I still get credit for the 'whole hand and and a thumb thing'? Or is one of your hands always fully occupied otherwise, wink-wink, nod-nod, know what I mean?
Clouder..
Little people talk about people,regular people talk about things,and big people talk about ideas.
Edited by - Bushy AR on 06/17/2002 18:21:23
Mudge....you've just gotta be a Red Sox fan too!
Xracer, the loser.
ted williams
billy martin
george patton
john adams
napoleon
martin luther
jennings 22
and a case of scotch
mix well and stand back...
"let not your work smack of the trowel, nor your words cause a blow from one either..."
Since we are talking about Pythagoras(sp?) It is interesting to note that along with his famous "theorem", he was the founder of the modern musical scale.
"The powers delegated by the proposed constitution to the federal governmentare few and defined, and will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace negotiation, and foreign commerce"
-James Madison
Those who consider themselves "academics" (teachers, professors, social scientists, so called think tankers, philosophers ,etc.) are also, for socialism; since they are one way or another ALL supported by government purse strings and the Fed. Department of Ed coffers, and since they know how to do basic math, (add and substract), they can see the advantages of Socialism for themselves.
I mean after all its very profitable to get 1,000's of dollars to study the same old issues thru the government free handouts for this study and that sudy, ie: Do, Mosquitos with green eyes live longer than brown eyed mosquitos? or how many studies does it take to understand the "Life cycle of a Chimpazee?".
Anyhow, back to Eisntein, here is a web link, on a paper he wrote on why socialism, is necessary? written in 1949.
http://www.monthlyreview.org/598einst.htm
The real issue is that peoples civil rights are violated by those who own the medias and big business, who really take the power of the elecorate away from them because they (the media and big business) separate the represented from their representatives, thru the use of lobbying and carefully picking and choosing news articles, which represent the real issues before the people.
So, instead of solving these problems, our government passes a law that restricts political advertising by individuals in the news media xxx # days before elections.
When in fact, what ought to happen, lobbying ought to be restricted, and the news ought to restricted to reporting the news, giving both viewpoints on all issues that affect nationl, social, and constitutional issues.
I was just getting over being upset for congress passing this law early this year, when I ran across this 1949 article.
I'm mad again..
"The great object is that every man.... everyone who is able may have a gun." Patrick Henry
Little people talk about people,regular people talk about things,and big people talk about ideas.
My mistake. Stoner certainly deserves to be on the list. His designs arent perfect, and I'm not a huge fan of the traditional caliber they employ, but he's put a lot of thought into his models and been around for a long time.
7mm:
Sheesh man, didnt ya notice all the Americans I put up there? I even included Hiram Maxim, the designer of the first real machine gun, the Maxim '08. Even John Moses didnt have his machine gun out until 9 years later in 1917.
This country may have some gifted weapons designers in it's history (as I noted), but we're far from the only ones. To ignore the achievements and innovations of foreign designers simply because of xenophobia is ridiculous and totally counterproductive.
I appreciate the efforts of Browning, Colt, and Winchester as much as the next guy, but they had to start from something.
Black-powder handguns, rifles, and cannons were invented in England and France. Should we have shunned those innovations out of nationalistic scorn during the Revolutionary War, for instance, and fought the British with bows and arrows?
Innovation is innovation. It doesnt matter where it comes from.
And I'm not about to stop driving a Japanese car that gets great gas mileage and costs several thousand dollars less than a comprable American model because our grandfathers fought a war half a century ago.
And I'm not going to stop shooting my SKS because it was produced in China, or my AK because it was designed in the USSR.
At best, I'm reaping the fruit of my enemy's toil. At worst, I'm admitting that sometimes, pragmatism supersedes bull-headed Jingoism.
Lets talk more about this. I would honestly like to hear what you have to say about it. This could get interesting, and maybe you'll change my mind.
Clouder:
Yes, I'll still give you credit for the "a whole hand and a thumb" thing. You get a gold star for the day. Here's a cookie.
Anyhow, have a nice night, I don't feel like gettin into a knock down drag out over this. Very sore subject for me.
For one, how many times have you outright insulted the USA for weapon choice?
I've never insulted the USA for the weapons choices of the military. One does not at all dovetail with the other. I dont agree with the the choice of the US military for it's standard infantry rifle, but that's never meant I blame the US as a whole. That's silly.
quote:How many times have you compared our military to communist militaries?
You seem to have the idea of hating Communism and learning from it mixed up. If we have the chance to learn from an enemy and put it to our own uses, how can you possibly find fault with that? If you arent willing to do that, then YOU are the one who is disrespecting the US and it's soldiers. If a captured or observed enemy innovation could help us make a better fighting force, then we'd be criminally bull-headed and ignorant to ignore it. Pride is a sin, remember?
quote:How many times have you claimed that the USA is not as smart as the lessor countries and that the KIAs are dead because of weapon choice?
I have never said the US as a nation is not as smart as "lesser countries". We hold a massive advantage in every single technological category, from helicopters and jets to armored vehicles. We equip, train, and transport our troops better than any country in the world. Which is why, when I see an area where I (and others) believe we need to fix something, I dont hesitate to bring it up.
The other thing: have you ever read Sun Tzu's "The Art of War"? One of the biggest rules is never underestimate your enemy. To sneer haughtily, and pooh-pooh the technology of another nation is to court disaster. Example: No one worried too much about Mogadishu. Rusty AK-47s and inaccurate RPGs manned by untrained dirt-poor nobodies. Uncle Sam need not worry. Until suddenly those unstable and inaccurate RPGs took down two mighty Blackhawks, and those back-country * with their rusty (and outdated, and inaccurate) AK-47s were tearing the Rangers a new one like no one had done since World War II.
Especially in this day and age, no nation can be discounted as harmless or ignorant. We should learn everything we can wherever we go. THAT is what saves the lives of soldiers and wins wars.
quote:No matter what the intentions of your post was, it hit me right in the heart, all I see when you post those names are the insults you have thrown at YOUR brothers, the men who fought and died for you so that you may have this country to call home
Dude, I'm truly sorry you feel that way. I really am. I dont know what caused you to feel this way. I know you're not an ignorant man. So why is it that suggesting that someone like Kalashnikov or Simonov deserves recognition for their achievements disgust you so much?
So what, should we ban all foreign arms from our shores? Make posessing anything other than a Remington shotgun or a Smith and Wesson revolver a crime? How about we start burning books about the history of the AK or the Mauser?
What the hell are we then, 7mm? We're the damn Khmer Rouge, that's what we are. We're the Nazis. We're an isolationist, xenophobic, hateful and ignorant bunch of hermits.
Bottom line: To ignore or discount ANY innovation or advancement that would give our soldiers a better chance of coming out of that battle alive, is disgusting, shameful, and ignorant.
2) Sean Connery
3) Hugh Hefner
4) Pierre Trudeau
5) Halle Berry
6) Jill Hennessy
I think that covers its.
Little people talk about people,regular people talk about things,and big people talk about ideas.
Mudge the hitter
ps. Can't stand the Yankees either. I'd love to see 'em go 6-156 some year.
I can't come to work today. The voices said, STAY HOME AND CLEAN THE GUNS!
Edited by - mudge on 06/18/2002 10:05:56
Bullzeye...did you know that the original Stoner design was .308 and only much later he was asked by our government to do a .223 version?
Actually, I did not know that. I know very little about the history of ArmaLite and Gene Stoner.
But to be honest, it's not just the caliber that bugs me.
If a gun is built and designed properly, why the hell does it need a "forward assist lever", AKA "if it dont fit, just slam it the hell in there"?
Why have other countries who could afford M-16s if they wanted to stuck with their stock of AK-47s and FALs? This is especially prevalent in the African countries, where AK's and M-16's are both plentiful, and similarly priced.
I'd say the African dust and rain have taught them something. But I cant confirm it. Maybe I'll do a research study.