In order to participate in the GunBroker Member forums, you must be logged in with your GunBroker.com account. Click the sign-in button at the top right of the forums page to get connected.
Bush's Guard Buddies MIA
woodshermit
Member Posts: 2,589
The whole Bush and the National Guard issue is not that important to me. He was a wealthy elitist who wanted to avoid going to Vietnam. Thousands did the same thing, including his Vice President who got, I have read, 5 deferments. Heck, I would have joined the Guard if I could have, but, like many back then, I joined the Air Force because my family was working class and didn't have the connections to get me into the Guard. People are bashing Kerry for what he did or didn't do after his service, yet, veterans who served with him come forward to offer their support. Where are the National Guard vets who served with Bush who could vouch for him? I know that if I had served with the son of a wealthy politician, I would remember it. Bush should just fess up and admit that he was a party animal back then and did whatever he wanted because his family was rich. So, where are Bush's Guard buddies when he needs them?
Comments
http://www.washingtontimes.com/op-ed/20040210-082910-8424r.htm
Odd that the writer does not claim to have known Our Leader during that time, only that they were in the "same fraternity" and wore "the same squadron patch." Most people, IMHO, would say clearly, "I served with XXXX from YYYY to ZZZZ and we....." and that clear statement is missing, isn't it?
For that matter, I was in the same fraternity as Admiral Bull Halsey, Dwight Eisenhower, George Patton, Black Jack Pershing, U.S. Grant, and good Ole Jeff Davis.[;)]
Hypocrisy is the homage paid by vice to virtue.
Don't assume malice for what stupidity can explain.
The Republicans are gonna' land on him like he can't believe. His "I'm a war hero" line isn't going to hold up long against his pathetic record.
I don't think Mr. Bush should give a rat's rump about what the "lefties" think. Whatever he does is not going to lessen the hatred that you have. So why bother? His supporters are going to support him and those that hate him won't. PERIOD!
AND...Do you think that Kerry's "Band of Brothers" (what a cheap attempt to aggrandize himself by using that title.) are voluntarily just coming out of the woodwork? HA! It is to laugh. They were recruited. The Kerry people contacted them and asked them if they'd do it. And you can bet they're getting something under the table for it, too. Not that I blame them. In my opinion they're nothing more than "hired hands" just like many of his other campaign workers.
Mudge the Republican
I can't come to work today. The voices said, STAY HOME AND CLEAN THE GUNS!
Why do you folks side with an accusation, then refuse to accept the truth when it comes out later. I would hate to be an inocent man on trial with some of you on the jury. As soon as the accusations were made, you would all vote guilty regardless of what came out as fact later. "Fair and Balanced", "Open minded", "In search of the truth", "I only want the facts". Not in some folks minds! I've never heard anyone but you admit they were wrong on an accusation that was later disproven, and you had to be callanged to do that.
Makes it look bad.[;)]
How you doin'!
1. By his actions he put every serviceman that was in Vietnam at risk by giving the enemy higher morale and more reason to continue the fight, because they knew if more Americans were against the war the better chance they had the US would give up which the US did,
2.By Kerry calling the soldiers in Vietnam baby killers and murderers, many returning soldiers were despised and spit upon. Many later would not even admit they were Vietnam vets because they didn't want to be looked down on. Also many vets had physcological problems because how they were viewed by people due to the likes of John Kerry and Jane Fonda. Just about all the vets that were against the war knew better than to demostrate against the war and their fellow veterans because they knew it would only help the enemy.
Was John Kerry a war hero? Yes he was. But he came home and became a traitor (Benedict Arnold was one of the greatest generals and heros in the Revolutionary War but he still became a traitor). Granted Kerry didn't fight with the Viet Cong, but he sure and hell helped their cause and eventually our defeat. I think his bragging about being a big war hero is going to backfire on him.
Does anyone on the forum disagree?
"Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, not liberty to purchase power."
Benjamin Franklin, 1785
John Kerry was a war hero.
I agree 100% while he was in harms way.
quote: But he came home and became a traitor.
Again, I agree 100%, and I haven't seen him appologize for it.
He still strikes me as a dope smoking liberal, and I trust my gut feelings on it.
How you doin'!
The idea that Kerry somehow boosted the morale of the NVA and VietCong is ludicrous. These were the best motivated troops of their era. There is also no reason to lump Kerry with Fonda. They barely knew each other. Kerry was leading VietNam Veterans Against The War and he was questioning the policies of the government, not the troops.
There is also no reason to lump Kerry with Fonda.
Working together for the same cause with the same group is the two of them lumping themselves together in a common cause, not me.[;)]
How you doin'!
Methinks you protesteh too much.
What I did was point out that the person "supporting" Our Leader's time in the NG did not say he knew him while they were together. He implied so, but given the long explanation for NG service, flying jets, etc., I was and am curious as to such an omission. I welcome the truth; just wondering when we will see it. [;)]
With regards to an accusation that was later disproven and I had to be challenged to admit I was wrong, it appears from the recent news that I may have been wrong to admit I was wrong. The story on that is still being written, isn't it? I have no problem admitting when I am wrong: just ask my wife. [:D]
Hypocrisy is the homage paid by vice to virtue.
Don't assume malice for what stupidity can explain.
Don't play symantics with me. You know what I meant, and you know it's true. I have yet to see either side report when they were wrong, but the democrats seem to throw out more accusations and less corrections.
Bush still has to correct the WMD stuff, but the democrats still have to correct that he didn't lie, he was lied to. When do you think either of those will happen?[;)]
How you doin'!
Get it? Same group of people, two Marines, or two war protestors. Whats the darn difference? That is how you group people, not by whether or not they know each other, but whether or not they fit into the 'group' being spoken of.
Sounds as if you are much more supportive of a man that is obviously against what so many of us here are for, God, Country, and Freedom, and not in support of a man who is, for the most part, just doing the best he can with the tools he has available. It doesnt make a lot of difference to me what GW did in the NG, or what JK did in VN, what matters is the past 30 years since then, and GW outshines JK by a long shot.
"Never argue with an idiot.... They drag you down to their level then beat you with experience."
"I don't have an attitude problem, you have a perception problem."
Ryan
Jane Fonda and John Kerry hardly knew each other and only met formally years after the war when Fonda was married to Ted Turner. How can you say that they were part of the same group? Kerry founded and led a group of veterans protesting the war. I know you are not saying that Fonda was a VietNam vet.
Was Kerry anti-Viet Nam war? Yes/No
Was Fonda anti-Viet Nam war? Yes/No
Kind of puts them as part of the same group to me![;)]
PS, Thanks Ryan. I knew you would get it.[:D]
How you doin'!
Jerry Weinberg
Why do you "Bush-whackers" think the President NEEDS to have someone to "boost him up" like Kerry does? Kerry's always been a shameless "self promoter". Always wanting the spotlight.
The Republicans are gonna' land on him like he can't believe. His "I'm a war hero" line isn't going to hold up long against his pathetic record.
I don't think Mr. Bush should give a rat's rump about what the "lefties" think. Whatever he does is not going to lessen the hatred that you have. So why bother? His supporters are going to support him and those that hate him won't. PERIOD!
AND...Do you think that Kerry's "Band of Brothers" (what a cheap attempt to aggrandize himself by using that title.) are voluntarily just coming out of the woodwork? HA! It is to laugh. They were recruited. The Kerry people contacted them and asked them if they'd do it. And you can bet they're getting something under the table for it, too. Not that I blame them. In my opinion they're nothing more than "hired hands" just like many of his other campaign workers.
Mudge the Republican
I can't come to work today. The voices said, STAY HOME AND CLEAN THE GUNS!<BR>
I guess I think you all need to get your heads out of your butts and realize that just because he's your guy doesn't mean he didn't do these things. (Whether Kerry or Bush) Some of you act like your guy (read that as God for some of you) could do no wrong.
Everybody's imperfect and everybody did something they don't want known, GET OVER IT!!!! They're politicians they will lie to whoever will believe them, and lie to those that won't believe them because they just don't care!
All men are pigs, politicians more so. Did he take the illegal substance? YES!, Did he sleep with the girl/guy/sheep? YES! Did he do what he needed to do to protect his own precious butt? YES!
Is he lying to you? YES! Learn to live with it and stop downing everyone because they chose a different tin idol than you did.
Just my two cents, and unrespected opinion. I think anyone who supports any politician is an idiot anyway.
When you wrestle a 'gator, there ain't no good end!!
"Molon Labe!" Spartan General-King Leonidas
All due respect, but I know many Viet Nam vets who were anti Viet Nam. I know many more who know that the politics were bad, but the service was respectable. Vet to vet, we can argue many things about the war, but Kerry turned into a left wing hippy, and I don't care for that. If you want to lump me in with a right wing group, go ahead, that to is your right. It doesn't clear up a thing about Kerry and his actions that I find disgusting.
Proof comes out that GB wasn't AWOL, but none of the Bush bashers stand up and appologize for empty accusations. What's that about? Truth is only what I want it to be? No way!
How you doin'!
I said that I was glad somebody came forward to say they served with Bush and I was the guy who started the topic. I think we need to focus on the important issues. I try not to get too stirred up on this forum and I like to think I avoid the name-calling as much as possible, but, putting me on the same page as Hanoi Jane just frankly ticks me off about as much as anything that I've read on this board. I'm done with this topic.
I hope you don't think I put you on the level of Fonda. I don't. I too had issues with how our government handled the VN war, but I never supported the enemies position like Fonda did, and it is my opinion that Kerry's actions also crossed the line. Unlike Jane, he had more of a right to be critical, but I think he did go over the line. I would be open to the idea that is was post war syndrome, but I need more truth an facts to make that decision. It's hard to find any truth in the media.
I respect you Woods, but I don't agree with you on Bush, and I've seen very few who dislike him be honest enough to say, "yes, we were wrong about that, and we shouldn't have said it." I think that this is going to be a real dirty campaign and both sides are going to throw dirt. I hate that, and it makes it hard for me to decide who is honest and who isn't.
Don't misread me. I have real concerns with Kerry, and I believe that Bush is a basicly honest man.
How you doin'!
I'll admit when I am wrong but not until there is evidence that I am wrong (sorta like Our Leader with WMD in Iraq, isn't it?). As of right now (0022 hours, 02/14/04) there ain't any evidence that I am aware of.
We'll discuss some more in the later morning. [}:)]
Hypocrisy is the homage paid by vice to virtue.
Don't assume malice for what stupidity can explain.
There is an article on AOL about a retired guardsman who remembers Bush. The man says he tried to contact the campaign in 2000 and was ignored, tried emailing the White House recently and got a form email response. Finally, his wife contacted someone on the state party level who got in touch with the White House. There are more important things to worry about.
The idea that Kerry somehow boosted the morale of the NVA and VietCong is ludicrous. These were the best motivated troops of their era. There is also no reason to lump Kerry with Fonda. They barely knew each other. Kerry was leading VietNam Veterans Against The War and he was questioning the policies of the government, not the troops.
Oh yea is that why he said that the troops wer committing all kinds of atrocities in Vietnam? Kerry is the one who thinks he is a great war hero and that Bush was just in the NG. Since the Democrats started all this abouat Bush's military record Kerry becomes fair game for the Republicans to go after Kerry about his anti-war behavior. Just wait until they start running some Kerry's old anti-war speechs and comments.
"Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, not liberty to purchase power."
Benjamin Franklin, 1785
Hypocrisy is the homage paid by vice to virtue.
Don't assume malice for what stupidity can explain.
Forget it guys you will never convince a person or persons that have an agenda. I think it appropriate to remember Ryan's tag line when responding to these posts in the future.quote:"Never argue with an idiot.... They drag you down to their level then beat you with experience."
Boomer
"Success is to be measured not so much by the position that one has reached in life as it is by the obstacles which one has overcome while trying to succeed"
. and the antithesis to this philosophy was uttered by Bill Clinton "I smoked it, but I didn't inhale."
NRA Life Member
Hypocrisy is the homage paid by vice to virtue.
Don't assume malice for what stupidity can explain.