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Who is the Presidential debate winner?

RembrandtRembrandt Member Posts: 4,486 ✭✭
edited October 2004 in General Discussion
Kerry is coming across as quite angry. Lots of vague solutions that hinge on "if" this or that happens....

President is consistantly staying on message, nothing different...calm and focused, more like having a conversation with someone you know.
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    Big Sky RedneckBig Sky Redneck Member Posts: 19,752 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I say Kerry is digging for answers and still relying on low level insults to get his point across. Did you notice when the question was asked about his plans to solve Iraq he skirted around by showing how bad Bush has done and a simple blanket answer to cover himself without giving details like he was asked to do.

    I will give Bush an 8.5 and Kerry a 3.

    ____________________________________________________
    I'm not apologizing, I am what I am
    There is no compromising, I don't give a damn
    Ozzy Osbourne - Lightning Strikes
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    WarbirdsWarbirds Member Posts: 16,851 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:I will give Bush an 8.5 and Kerry a 3.


    I was watching the debates already knowing exactly that my mind was made up, Kerry just reenforced it. I wonder which debate it will be when gun control comes up?

    R/

    Dave
    th_bigclay.bmp
    How different the world would be if we could consult the veteran instead of the politician. - Henry Miller
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    gskyhawkgskyhawk Member Posts: 4,773
    edited November -1
    I hate to say it but I think kerry did pretty good , and think Bush should have done better , Bush wins but not by much
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    rovrmanrovrman Member Posts: 1,000 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Bush's only problem is that he can't talk. Kerry is a low life insulting punk.

    french people don't speak german, Thank my dad for that!!
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    HAIRYHAIRY Member Posts: 23,606
    edited November -1
    Bush=cliche. [:(]

    Don't assume malice for what stupidity can explain.
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    alledanalledan Member Posts: 19,541
    edited November -1
    I have to agree with gskyhawk!
    Bush has a habit of inhaling and exhaling about every other word which makes him seem like he is "digging" for his answers. Also it it creates hesitations which are suspicious to the listener.



    Delta.gif

    Extreme moments of horror should be met with extreme actions of preventive retribution

    Of all the things I've lost, I miss my youth the most!
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    TheBrassManTheBrassMan Member Posts: 3,808 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    As far as I could tell, Kerry didn't give any straight answers.

    But now we will hear from the talking heads. Time to turn to the SciFi channel :D


    Nowhere in the U.S. Constitution does it state: "Seperation of Church and State".

    "Those who beat their guns into plow shares; will plow for those who don't."

    "Woo unto you who call good evil and evil good."

    62038332.jpgawcountdown.gif
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    Night StalkerNight Stalker Member Posts: 11,967
    edited November -1
    I've already formed my opinion with regards to my vote, and this debate did not change it- not one bit. Skerry needs to exit.... stage left!

    NSDQ!

    NS_Crest.jpgr6team.gifAmerican_IR_Flag.jpg

    "The Lord knows the way I take, and when He has tested me, I shall come forth as gold" JOB 23:10
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    mandersonmanderson Member Posts: 533 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    7mm nut...

    That is exactly what I got out of this as being most important. Jim Lehrer asked Kerry for "specifics" on his plan for dealing with the Iraq situation, and he completely skirted the issue and gave no answer at all.
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    He DogHe Dog Member Posts: 50,981 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Kerry by a small margin. At least he does not say nucular.





    Redefeat Bush Haliburton in 2004
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    Forget-Me-NotForget-Me-Not Member Posts: 215 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I think it's a little early and premature to call the race at this point.

    Of course, I think my guy did pretty darn well.

    Check the poll on metered ratngs.

    But the proof is in the pudding.

    One thing I can say about both candidates was that they were both surprisingly kind and very classy in some places. And as much as I hate to use the term amongst this crowd, I think they were both disarmingly charming at points. [:D]

    This is me.
    Just as I am.
    Now and Forever.
    Forget-Me-Not
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    IconoclastIconoclast Member Posts: 10,515 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Much as I detest and loathe kerry, he did speak more effectively. I lost track of the number of opportunities the President could have jammed some of kerry's statements and votes in his face and failed to do so. Just for one example, kerry whined that the forces in Iraq lacked material, and Bush didn't point out that when the government sought the funding for body armor, the wannabe voted against it. North Korea had a nuclear weapons program long before Dubya came to office, but he didn't point out this out when kerry laid it at his door. Etc. Very disappointed in his performance, especially when momentum was swinging his way and he had a chance to bury that sleazy liberal pinhead once and for all.

    "There is nothing lower than the human race - except the french." (Mark Twain) ". . . And liberals / demoMAGGOTS" (me)
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    p3skykingp3skyking Member Posts: 25,750
    edited November -1
    Dave,
    The gun issue comes up in Debate III I believe (Domestic issues).

    Kerry still did the waffle and it goes against his nature to give a straight answer. He did keep his head above water though.

    Bush still comes across as confident and in charge. Exactly what the country needs and wants right now. Bush won by a red hair.

    There was a cowhand once who said that Shakespeare was the only poet who wrote like he'd been raised on red meat.
    No man in his right mind will play with a gun. I've seen show-offs doing fancy spins and all that. No real gun-fighter ever did. With a hairtrigger, he'd be likely to blow a hole in his belly. L'Amour

    wings2.gif
    Stolen from, and with thanks, to Kiwibird
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    groundsqrlklrgroundsqrlklr Member Posts: 63 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Perhaps Bush did not drive home every little detail in Kerrys face but he did stay with his point, that he is going to stand by what he says he is about running a country not a political fiasco of blame the other person.

    And the qoute by Kerry, " ..which is worse bushes actions or my words..."
    But the truth of the matter is it wasnt just words but a vote that had intenet to discourage not just words and talking about.

    I am well pleased either way becasue despite the seemingingly found stability of kerry it has only been for about 40 days and as soon as the heat turns up, he will sneeze another tune.
    I am with the tried and the true....George W. Bush.[;)][:D]

    To know God is to live,
    TO learn to hunt is a blessing,
    To bear a firearm is a right.
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    Red223Red223 Member Posts: 7,946
    edited November -1
    Atleast Kerry didn't wear his orange face paint and was a milder color for the debate.



    Kerry003.jpg
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    Hunter375Hunter375 Member Posts: 612 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Kerry is a slick talker, and that is not good when you consider this is the most exposure the average person will get on the issue. Nonetheless, Kerry DID keep skirting issues, flipped a bit and generally sqeaked by with eloquent speach. Bush was Bush, and was able to easily rebut all the B.S. accusations from hanoi John. I agree that W could have been more agressive, but his charisma may speak louder than a verbal assault. I did like how every time Kerry said "The President Mislead about......." Bush turned it around and said "I don't think my opponent mislead when he came to the same conclusions I did". That was smooth, and he did it 5 or 6 times. Go Dubya!

    Liberal compassion inhibits progress.........think Republican and prosper!
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    pickenuppickenup Member Posts: 22,844 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    There was a debate?
    Why?

    The gene pool needs chlorine.
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    ZERODINZERODIN Member Posts: 6,338
    edited November -1
    I was amazed at how well it was run. With all the legal battles for how it would be run, it turned out okay, and I was pleasantly surprised.

    I think Bush won, and here's why...leave the entire message of both parties out of it. People like Kerry because he is a good public speaker and he feels charismatic to them as long as they ignore his words. Ignoring Bush's words, he has always come across as clumsy, dyslexic, and unintelligent as a result. We all judge hillbillies as less intelligent because of how they talk, but we are often wrong. Bush suffers from that.

    But tonight, he was under the gun and he spoke better than I've ever heard him speak before. And that's what people who haven't already decided whom to vote for are watching.
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    CA sucksCA sucks Member Posts: 4,310
    edited November -1
    I completly missed the debate because of my microbiology class, all I have to say is I think Bush did way better than than Gore in 2000.
    I don't know how well of a speaker Kerry is, but based on the last presidential debates I woulda voted for Bush, after seeing him in office, I have to wish somebody else was president.
    Point is, I may like the ideals they express in a debate, but not like their actions once in office.
    I don't know how bad of a president Kerry would be (but I do know he would be bad), right now I'm trying to decide if he would be better or worse than the current known evil.
    I hope they air the debate again at a time I can watch it to give a more informed opinion.
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    ZERODINZERODIN Member Posts: 6,338
    edited November -1
    CA: There are two more debates, next week I believe. Google for the dates and times. And your state is strongly Democrat - don't vote for Kerry, he'll do fine without your vote. Vote for Badnarik or Bush instead, just to make a statement. You can afford to, if you want Kerry to win. [:)]

    The one major thing I always hear echoing in the reasonable person's mind after Kerry makes a claim is "How?" He says he will do all these things, but he makes no indication of how he'll do them. It's a frequent problem with candidates who aren't incumbent, but more so with Kerry than usual, it seems.

    Like Bush said, "That's my job." It's a lot easier to tell someone how you will do your job when you've been working there for a while. Kerry hasn't even shown up to his own job in too long.
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    jonkjonk Member Posts: 10,121
    edited November -1
    I think Kerry did better in the debate, and is the better public speaker, but for issues, I go with Bush. Kerry resorted time and again to liberal rhetoric but Bush appeals to common sense. If you want the slick packaging, go for Kerry; if you want substance, go for Bush.

    "...hit your enemy in the belly, and kick him when he is down, and boil his prisoners in oil- if you take any- and torture his women and children. Then people will keep clear of you..." -Admiral of the Fleet Lord Fisher, speaking at the Hague Peace Conf
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    ZERODINZERODIN Member Posts: 6,338
    edited November -1
    I was very impressed and happy that Bush stood up against the international criminal court thing. We fought hard to win this country, and harder to keep it, and no matter what Bush does with it he isn't handing it over free of charge to the UN.
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    CA sucksCA sucks Member Posts: 4,310
    edited November -1
    I know my state is democommy, I will vote 3rd party either way, but realistically, I know either bush or kerry will win, and im not shure who i want to win, even if im not voting for either.
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    select-fireselect-fire Member Posts: 69,453 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    It opened the eyes of alot of public about our world affairs. Korea was the topic of the night. Kerrys bi-latteral approach peeved Bush off and Bush said it would not work. Also the fact Kerry put in the publics knowledge that 35 other countries around the world were a larger threat than Iraq about weapons of mass destruction. The fact that only a few nations are in Iraq with us is very important. Kerry kept stressing that the U.S. needs to gain the trust of the world was very important. He did get Bush to admit that Sadaam Hussain DID NOT attack us during 911. Russia was also a strong topic about their surplus of nuclear stuff. Kerry said he could eliminate it in 4 years where Bush will take 13. The public isn't stupid.. the quicker it is gone the less threat to all. I do have to compliment both candidates on the professionalism and respect they gave each other and their families. Kerry's comment about being consistant really struck hard in the debate. He looked directly at Bush and stated : You can be constistant and be wrong.. I also liked the comment Kerry said about George Bush Sr. and why he did not go into Iraq and get Sadaam.. The generals advised him it could and would go wrong and we could be in for a mess... Maybe George Sr. should have spoke to his son.[:D]

    Get out of the left lane.. you're holding me up.
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    gonepostalgonepostal Member Posts: 604 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Tie

    Equal B.S. ,their both politicians

    If you are a bush supporter he won ,Kerry supporter he won ,a person tends to lean toward understanding their personal favorite

    They where both getting agitated ,making speaking mistakes ,manipulating questions by leading them to other answers ,I wish they could have talked to each other and asked each other questions


    now the media will take key points and show them ,to lean toward their favorite

    i will now put ten round mags in all my pre ban guns ,just to show defiance

    dhs-advisory-elevated.gif
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    RembrandtRembrandt Member Posts: 4,486 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Kerry's wording is every bit as polished as that of Bil Clinton. His response at face value sounds good...until you really anaylize the content.

    The tactic is a polished version of "Monday morning quarterbacking" with "IF" we did this or "IF" we did that. Second guessing every move Bush made with unwavering certainty his alternative plan would have worked. In this way Kerry doesn't have to prove his method would have worked.

    Bush seemed more focused on the future and what needed to be done, where Kerry was mired in what happened yesterday.

    Kerry's assertion that he could get more cooperation from other nations is "pie in the sky".....no indication that would ever happen. He would have us believe that his magnetic personality would suddenly win over France, Germany, and Kofi Ananan....with all of us sitting around singing kuum-by-ya. Why would we want to be associated with those that were taking "Kick-Backs" (Food-for-Oil) and stabbing us in the back?
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    chuckchuck Member Posts: 4,911
    edited November -1
    I think Kerry won last night, Makes no matter to me, I will never Vote Democommie.[:(!][:(!]
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    IconoclastIconoclast Member Posts: 10,515 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Rem, in reply to the rhetorical question of the last post - there are plenty of sheeple who see the world through the rose-tinted glasses of "what they wish it to be," not to mention the drooling leftist pinheads who - all too sadly - truly *believe* and lastly the cynical exploiters (e.g., klinton, kennedy, m.moore, kerry, etc.)of these vapid starry-eyed idealists. One can only hope that some of them will grow a brain as they age, although that is far from certain judging by some of the graybeard crock sellers hereabouts.

    "There is nothing lower than the human race - except the french." (Mark Twain) ". . . And liberals / demoMAGGOTS" (me)
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    chunkstylechunkstyle Member Posts: 2,463 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    CBS News: Kerry 43, Bush 28, Draw 29.

    USA Today now has: Kerry 53, Bush 37.

    Non-scientific MSNBC Online: Kerry 67, Bush 33, with 848637 respondents.

    CNN.com users give Bush a solid "C", Kerry B+/A-.

    ABC Flash Poll was Kerry 45, Bush 36, Tie 17

    Even FOX News, usually a GOP cheerleading squad, admitted that Kerry's "favorability" went from 43 to 68 percent.

    "Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid, it is true that most stupid people are conservative."
    -John Stuart Mill
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    concealedG36concealedG36 Member Posts: 3,566 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Well, I think that Kerry seemed much more intelligent, sharp and educated. It bothers me that GWB can't seem to think on his feet. There were times that I was cringing waiting for GWB to spit out his words; it is almost like he lost his cheat sheet and didn't know what to say.

    On the other hand, the statement Kerry made about getting the U.N. and world approval for our International actions about made me puke. What does it matter what the U.N. thinks??? And, I think Kerry made a whole lot of promises that he can't keep.

    I just hope the next debate shows an improvement for GWB. I'm sure his team will help him create an image that will appeal to the sheeple; those who don't vote issues and instead vote for the person who is the most convincing on stage.

    G36



    Gun Control Disarms Victims, NOT CriminalsThe 2nd Amendment; America's Original Homeland Security
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    salzosalzo Member Posts: 6,396 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I think Kerry hit a homerun. Most people are already committed to their candidate-these debates are for those nitwits who are undecided.All Kerryhad to do was show the undecideds that he had a plan, that he was presidential, etc-he did just that. Kerry most certainly attracted some of those undecided votes, and I think he probably brought home some of the Dems who were goingto vote for Bush.

    And someone should tell George, to learn how to sit with a straight face. Sometimes the camera panned on George, and he had his lips curled-made him look like a chimp.

    "Waiting tables is what you know, making cheese is what I know-lets stick with what we know!"
    -Jimmy the cheese man
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    jltrentjltrent Member Posts: 9,222 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I was so pissed off at Kerry for acting like he was writting something down all the time which looked so fake. Kerry said we should't have went into Iraq without a lot more support from other counties, but it is alright to deal with Korea by ourself, BS.

    Kerry doesn't know what he wants and Bush barely. Kerry is slicker, but I believe Bush comes accross as more believable.

    Bush already being President was on the defense more and Kerry could be more on the offense. I also believe Bush won this after thinking about it this morning.

    I would give Bush a 7 and Kerry a 4 on a scale up to 10.
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    n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    Kerry took it on appearance and speaking ability. For those who do not know the real issues, he won. President Bush did a poor job in his presentation and speaking ability, but his information was correct and his conviction showed. For those who know the real issues, he won.

    Overall I think Bush did nothing to gain ground, but Kerry did.[:(!]

    Lt the dissapointed

    "We become what we habitually do. If we act rightly, we become upright men. If we habitually act wrongly, or weakly, we become weak and corrupt" - *ARISTOTLE*

    **Like Grandad used to say--"It'll feel better when it quits hurtin"
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    ZERODINZERODIN Member Posts: 6,338
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by select-fire
    Russia was also a strong topic about their surplus of nuclear stuff. Kerry said he could eliminate it in 4 years where Bush will take 13. The public isn't stupid..

    Like I said above: How? What's Kerry's master plan that will bring us a perfect world in 4 years?

    Anyone can say they can do something in X amount of time. In fact, I could eliminate Russia's surprlus nuclear materials in 8 months if I'm elected. Vote for me if you're gullible.

    If the public falls for this baseless claim, then they are stupid.
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    select-fireselect-fire Member Posts: 69,453 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Zerodin, there is not ever going to be a " perfect world " .

    Salzo.. it was flashback time for me when I remembered all the pictures as a child in the books of "Curious George " [:D]



    Get out of the left lane.. you're holding me up.
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    boeboeboeboe Member Posts: 3,331
    edited November -1
    I watched the original, then watches a re-run. I thought Bush did better in the re-run than the original.

    To err is human, to moo is bovine.
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    NighthawkNighthawk Member Posts: 12,022 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    IMHO I can be a pretty good judge about someone lieing when they speak.I didnt see any signs of lieing by either party,but Kerry would not answer any question as it was ask.Once when ask by the Moderator how did he plan on commiting to his earlier statement of getting our troops home from Iraq in as little as 6 months?He completely diverted the question by complementing Mrs.Bush and the Presidents daughter.When the President had his say he ask Kerry how he was going to do it.Kerry replied I have a plan?I also admired the President being offended when Kerry seemed to disrespect our Troops in Iraq,and he voiced his displeasure of it.The President won that debate 10 to 1.I watched the tape this AM and had already heard who came out on top and who dusted the dust off their $5000.00 suit.

    Rugster




    "Toujours Pret"
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    4GodandCountry4GodandCountry Member Posts: 3,968
    edited November -1
    I noticed Kerry promise a lot of bababooy but he didn't mention how he planned to pay for it (can you say INCREASED TAXES!). Bush seemed clumsy at certain points and probably repeated himself a few more times than I would have liked but over all I think he held his ground. Kerry will say and do anything to get elected, Bush on the other hand stands by his convictions and damn the consequenses. Kerry would pander to the UN and world opinion without reguard to the consequences to our nation, Bush on the other hand will and has done what he feels necessary to defend America period. If you want coffee anan delegating U.S. policy then Kerry's your man. If you believe the U.S.A. is still a republic then you better vote Bush/Cheney.

    "Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet."
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    Patriots49Patriots49 Member Posts: 751 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The ultimate winner will be determined by Novermber 3.

    "You cannot conquer America." -William Pitt, 1777
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    Bubba JoelBubba Joel Member Posts: 5,161
    edited November -1
    I don't think last night would change anyones mind, no matter which way you would vote..

    I did see G.W.s face that looked like he would of liked to slap Kerry into next week.. I told my wife that Bush was delaying to much in between statements like he was waiting on applause..

    I'm a Bush supporter, but don't think he did his best. Bush04.gif

    colt_gun_in_hand_spinning_lg_clr.gifstats.gif
    Why is it that our children can't read a Bible in school, but they
    can in prison? (This should raise some real questions
    somewhere!!!!)
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