In order to participate in the GunBroker Member forums, you must be logged in with your GunBroker.com account. Click the sign-in button at the top right of the forums page to get connected.
Two stolen cars? or not?
Rebel_James
Member Posts: 4,746
In Rugerniner's thread about buying a stolen gun, I posted a case about two stolen cars, that weren't stolen.
In order not to hijack the other thread, here's that story:
.
Several years ago a GBI Agent I knew came by the SO CID office. He'd received information some people in our county were in possession of two vehicles reported stolen from a new car dealer in metro Atlanta.
We went to the people's residence and both vehicles were in the driveway. In talking with the woman and her son who had the vehicles we learned their claims:
1. They had bought the vehicles from the dealer paying cash for them even though they didn't have a receipt. They said they'd saved money at home for years and had decided to use it to buy the vehicles.
2. They had the certificate of origin from the manufactorer.
3. They had the Georgia MV-1 forms for their registration. On the MV-1, the dealer was listed, along with other info showing it came from the dealer.
4. They described the salesman, saying he was a white male, blonde hair, about 35 years old, and had a big gap between his upper front teeth.
In checking the paperwork I found some things that made me think the people had been scammed, more than likely by a salesman than the dealer itself.
1. The only way they could have possession of the certificate of origin was if it was given to them by someone at the dealership.
2. Whoever prepared the MV-1 forms for the registration knew what they were doing. Both forms had dealer identification numbers on them, and the names and addresses of the people in possession of the vehicles. The forms also had discrepencies in the listed VIN of both vehicles. One digit on each form was changed. I felt this was to slow detection of the vehicles' real identity.
3. In my opinion, the people with the vehicles were not smart enough to steal the vehicles along with all that paperwork from the dealer. They seemed the type not to trust banks and save for what they wanted and pay with cash.
I told them I had to take possession of he vehicles because they were listed as stolen on NCIC. I gave them my card and told them to get a lawyer to call me about the vehicles. I put the vehicles in the county impound lot for safekeeping.
The next day the GBI Agent and I went to the car dealership and talked to the new car sales manager. When I described the `salesman' another salesman blurted a name, to which the sales manager said wasn't working there at the time of the `theft.' I'd found the scam, but the dealer would not admit it.
A few days later I get a phone call from a local lawyer wanting me to explain the story two people had told him in his office. All he could understand from them was I had taken two vehicles from them as stolen, had given them my card, and wanted them to get a lawyer to call me.
The lawyer filed a suit in Cobb Co, Ga., for the people to retain possession of the vehicles. His argument was the people had purchased the vehicles from a salesman at the dealership, and the salesman had not turned in the money. That made the salesman a thief for stealing the money, NOT the people thieves for stealing the vehicles.
After hearing testimony and seeing the MV-1 forms and certificates of origin, the judge awarded the people the vehicles.
*Sidenote: A few years later I get called for jury duty. This same lawyer is defending a drug suspect, and guess who he puts in the jury box! Yeah, me. The courthouse was buzzing about this crazy lawyer putting a cop in the jury box on a drug case. The thing was he had an innocent client and wanted a cop on the jury to see where the other cops had screwed up. We were out maybe 15 minutes, NOT GUILTY.
All cops are crooked though, aren't they???
.
In order not to hijack the other thread, here's that story:
.
Several years ago a GBI Agent I knew came by the SO CID office. He'd received information some people in our county were in possession of two vehicles reported stolen from a new car dealer in metro Atlanta.
We went to the people's residence and both vehicles were in the driveway. In talking with the woman and her son who had the vehicles we learned their claims:
1. They had bought the vehicles from the dealer paying cash for them even though they didn't have a receipt. They said they'd saved money at home for years and had decided to use it to buy the vehicles.
2. They had the certificate of origin from the manufactorer.
3. They had the Georgia MV-1 forms for their registration. On the MV-1, the dealer was listed, along with other info showing it came from the dealer.
4. They described the salesman, saying he was a white male, blonde hair, about 35 years old, and had a big gap between his upper front teeth.
In checking the paperwork I found some things that made me think the people had been scammed, more than likely by a salesman than the dealer itself.
1. The only way they could have possession of the certificate of origin was if it was given to them by someone at the dealership.
2. Whoever prepared the MV-1 forms for the registration knew what they were doing. Both forms had dealer identification numbers on them, and the names and addresses of the people in possession of the vehicles. The forms also had discrepencies in the listed VIN of both vehicles. One digit on each form was changed. I felt this was to slow detection of the vehicles' real identity.
3. In my opinion, the people with the vehicles were not smart enough to steal the vehicles along with all that paperwork from the dealer. They seemed the type not to trust banks and save for what they wanted and pay with cash.
I told them I had to take possession of he vehicles because they were listed as stolen on NCIC. I gave them my card and told them to get a lawyer to call me about the vehicles. I put the vehicles in the county impound lot for safekeeping.
The next day the GBI Agent and I went to the car dealership and talked to the new car sales manager. When I described the `salesman' another salesman blurted a name, to which the sales manager said wasn't working there at the time of the `theft.' I'd found the scam, but the dealer would not admit it.
A few days later I get a phone call from a local lawyer wanting me to explain the story two people had told him in his office. All he could understand from them was I had taken two vehicles from them as stolen, had given them my card, and wanted them to get a lawyer to call me.
The lawyer filed a suit in Cobb Co, Ga., for the people to retain possession of the vehicles. His argument was the people had purchased the vehicles from a salesman at the dealership, and the salesman had not turned in the money. That made the salesman a thief for stealing the money, NOT the people thieves for stealing the vehicles.
After hearing testimony and seeing the MV-1 forms and certificates of origin, the judge awarded the people the vehicles.
*Sidenote: A few years later I get called for jury duty. This same lawyer is defending a drug suspect, and guess who he puts in the jury box! Yeah, me. The courthouse was buzzing about this crazy lawyer putting a cop in the jury box on a drug case. The thing was he had an innocent client and wanted a cop on the jury to see where the other cops had screwed up. We were out maybe 15 minutes, NOT GUILTY.
All cops are crooked though, aren't they???
.
Comments
All cops are crooked though, aren't they???
.
That was the conclusion I came too also. Don
I understand what you did in your case, I was not, nor am I bashing, I just asked a question
I was in no way accusing you of being crooked, are the majority of law enforcement. I put crooked "individual", not police as it just sounds fishy.
I understand what you did in your case, I was not, nor am I bashing, I just asked a question
The crooked remark was not directed at you in any way. Sorry if you thought that.
I once had an assistant DA tell me once that if you have to think about the merits of the case for more than 10 minutes, its probably civil.
In that, he was saying, if it's not clearly a criminal case within a very short period of time, its civil.
Can you get the dealer ownership/new sales manager for being accessories or some such?
All cops are crooked though, aren't they???
.
No they are not.
However the crooked prosecutors and cops I have run across leave me with some hard feelings towards all law officials until I get to know them and they prove otherwise.
However the crooked prosecutors and cops I have run across leave me with some hard feelings towards all law officials until I get to know them and they prove otherwise.Understood, but....
Some people are prone to being distrustful of all cops until it's proven to their satisfaction that they're straight up, some cops are prone to being distrustful of all non-cops until it's proven to their satisfaction they're straight up.
To a degree this is understandable from both sides, but all too often we see examples of both sides going overboard with this attitude. This makes life tougher for us all.