Springfield M1A Versus M1A Scout

Evil ATF

Ok...the plot thickens. I'm very close to my decision. Barring any last minute information that comes my way, I've decided on the M1A as my new Main Battle Rifle. My problem is that with a 22 inch barrel, the full-size M1A comes out to about 44 inches. THAT'S a big * gun. The M1A Scout has an 18 inch barrel and the overall length is about 40 inches. To get a good feel for a 40 inch battle rifle, I took a peek at my Benelli M1 Super 90 Tactical. It measures 39 and 3/4 inches. That's pretty dang long. So what do you guys think? I'm considering going with the "entry level" M1A with the moly/chrome-lined barrel because of it's long term durability over the stainless steel Match barrels. Any thoughts on this? I hear it will drop the rifle's inherent accuracy by about 1 inch at 100 yards, so that's something I can live with. I like the length of the Scout a lot better than the full-size M1A, but what will I be losing accuracy-wise? What's a good M1A group for a Scout with a moly/chrome-lined barrel?Jeez, I wish they offered the Match M1A's with the moly/chrome barrel. It'd make my life a lot easier. The best of both worlds.

gap1916

I like the scout. It is just a little more handy for me. Jeff Cooper had a good idea with a scout rifle concept. It is an all around rifle. My 2 cents

thesupermonkey

You traitor!

ED P

I just got an M1A Standard 2 weeks ago, and went through the same final decision process between the Standard and Scout.Two things made me decide on the Standard, though the Scout's smaller size made it tempting.1. Not sure if the Scout has a chrome lined barrel or not. It has a 1 in 11 barrel twist, vs. the 1 in 12 of the Standard. Couldn't find any info on this anywhere.2. I looked at where the gas block is, and in the back of my mind I kept remembering enough people posting how shortened guns like the Bushmaster M4 are pickier with ammo due to the different gas pressure a shorter barrel has on the gas system. I decided to go with the longer barrel, as that is the barrel length the gun was originally designed for. I have no proof however that the shorter barrel makes it any pickier with ammo.If you've already got a compact battle rifle, I say go whole hog for a big, mean looking gun with an M2 bipod. A coupon comes with all M1A's, good through 12/31, to buy bipods, cleaning kits, etc... at a reduced price. The M2 bipod is around $109 with the coupon, which might not be a steal, but seems a reasonable price.

cpermd

I have 2 old Bush rifles and 5-6 M14 semis and building two more if I can get the receivers.The Bush guns are reliable as an anvil.

concealedG36

I just got my M1A the other day. I got the "loaded" model that has the stainless barrel. The stock I got is fiberglass, I actually wanted wood though (but, I put a bid in thinking someone would out-bid me - they didn't). Anyway, I love this gun. It is quite long, but as a previous post said it looks great with a bipod and a 20rd magazine. I was able to shoot tight groups, just under 2" right out of the box with only one adjustment click , from the bench. I didn't realize that the stainless barrels were less long-lived, is this true?Anyway, I'd go with the scout too, it might even be a little lighter (although it was designed to be a light gun, it's not). In fact, maybe I'll save up and get one of those too!

Evil ATF

It's just faceless Internet info, G36, but with all the digging around I've been doing, several people have told me that the chrome/moly barrels are much more durable as far as how many rounds can go through them before they start making 20 foot groups. The stainless barrels are supposedly more reliable as far as weather conditions, etc, but you can't put as many rounds through them before they go kaput. I plan for the worst, so I don't want to be looking for a replacement barrel or two in say, 10 years in a Mad Max, post-apocolyptic hell-hole.How does the full-size model handle, G36? Too unwieldy in close quarters and brush? I'm planning on making this my "all-around rifle for the next 5-10 years, so I want every detail to be perfect.

boeboe

MAIN BATTLE RIFLE! A real battle rifle should not only be a reliable firearm but a means of basic self defense even after the ammo's gone. Ya need the bayonet lug so it can become a spear, and it needs to be heavy enough to use as a club if need be. MAIN BATTLE RIFLE! Why pick a shortened rifle that sacrifices velocity and accuracy just to be cool? In a firefight the extra barrel length might save your life, or the life of the guy next to you. In hand to hand combat, which would you rather have, a four foot spear or a three foot spear? Most often, the extra inches saves lives on YOUR side of the battle.If you want a light weight assault weapon which is handy on special occasions, get a carbine length weapon or an AR. If you want a MAIN BATTLE RIFLE, don't compromise. [This message has been edited by boeboe (edited 09-25-2001).]

ysacres

Evil, Now that you have retired the AK 47's as your main battle rifles and wont be needing them any more please send them toysacresWazzu WA99101

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Ruger-Remington-RULE THE ROOST

Evil ATF

Boeboe:I think you missed the point. I'm not trying to be cool by having a short-barrelled rifle. I already own several short-barrelled rifles. My question was whether or not the SLIGHT increase in velocity and accuracy is worth having 4 extra inches of rifle to drag around in the heavy brush or inside a structure if the need arises.If having the 22 inch M1A allows me to hit targets at about one inch from 100 yards, will the enemy be less dead if I hit them with a 2 inch group from the Scout instead? Maybe I've already answered my own question. Perhaps I'm just looking for backup on my idea before I shell out over $1,000 for a rifle BEFORE I load up on ammo, magazines, etc etc etc. If the rifle had a pistol-gripped stock, it'd be a moot point. I'd take the 22 inch barrel in a heartbeat. However, when the rifle needs to be fired from the shoulder, even at close quarters, to be effective, it makes a world of differance.

Shootist3006

Evil, I thought you were looking for a GARAND, what's with this minor caliber stuff?

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Quod principi placuit legis habet vigorem.Semper Fidelis

JudgeColt

In putting the M1A at the top of your list, you have already put U. S. service rifle tradition ahead of form and function. (In my heart, I voted for the AR-10 for appearance and tradition of a different kind, but in my head, I know the FN-FAL was the true choice of the free world when it came to selection of a main battle rifle in the 1950s mind set, plus FN magazines are as low as $5.00, compared to $40 plus for M1A magazines, etc.)Since you are going with U.S. military tradition, I say you should go all the way with tradition and select the standard M1A. Except in a very personal sense, what is four inches anyway?

concealedG36

Evil, the rifle handles beautifully. I don't mind the extra length at all. And, I was looking at buying a flash suppresor with lug on GB (I just spent every last $ on this rifle, though, so I need to save up again). Also, there are lots of other parts and accessories available for this weapon (check out http://www.fulton-armory.com ) Anyway, I'm confident that I'll be able to refine my groups to 1" or less at 100 yds with a little tuning and practice with iron sights. I am hoping to enter into some civilian marksmanship competitions at a local range soon, so hopefully I'll be able to give you longer-range accuracy information then.As for the "feel" of the gun: The operating rod and rotating-bolt action is smooth, the magazine snaps in solidly, the weight of the rifle makes shooting from many positions easier, even without a sling (no more of that wobbly/shaky stuff when holding a lighter rifle) and the recoil isn't too bad. I would be very careful about putting any digits into the action while the bolt is open. The bolt snaps closed with authority if the catch is touched, I about lost my thumb last week.Anyway, I saw a retired US Marine who sat right next to me at the range with a really loaded national match M1A. He wasn't shooting very well, but his scope rings were loose. Anyway, he too praised the rifle and said it was the best one he owned. My father, also retired USMC, shot a 1" group at 50 yards with my rifle his first three shots (which is good considering the last time he handled a gun like this was in Nam with an M14).Many of the guys on this board will be better able to give you technical details, but I can tell you that I have not been disappointed....[This message has been edited by concealedG36 (edited 09-26-2001).]

concealedG36

Oh, one thing I forgot to mention. You will want to make sure your grip on the front of the stock doesn't obstruct the operating rod handle when it racks a round. I found that if I gripped my left hand to far around the stock my fingers got in the way of the handle. This caused one round not to seat correctly. No big deal, just something to think about.

beachmaster73

Evil....Go with the full size rifle; that way you can play with it while you are waiting for the end of the world scenario to play out. I wouldn't get a pistol grip but then you know I'm kind of * about having a match rifle and all of its accuracy. Shootist don't be too hard on Evil just yet....six months ago he thought the AK-47 was the Rolls Royce of the shooting world! He wanted to tar and feather me when I inferred it was the Yugo of firearms. Give him a little more time. He's working his way up to the best....Someday he'll be typing on this forum about the greatest battle rifle ever made..the GARAND! BeachP.S. Evil I'm still going to hold you to your promise that you will get an M-1!! I have my Yugo(AK-47) parked in an undisclosed location! Beach

Evil ATF

JudgeColt:Ok. Your slight jab got me. I'll bite. Which model of FAL compares closest to the quality of the M1A? Other than the nifty adjustable gas chamber thingamabob, what makes the FAL a better MBR choice over the M1A? With magazines costing only $5 for FAL's, are they durable? $5 mags don't do ya' any good if they get busted up in the field, miles from a dealer. Finally, the all important question:How does the "top grade" (Isn't the Austrian model the best? Please correct me if I am wrong...) FAL's accuracy compare with the standard M1A?I value your imput. Like I said, it's definately not a done deal yet. Thanks again.

Evil ATF

PS:Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions. My copy of the Boston Gun Bible is coming, as y'all ordered me to do. The problem is that it is back-ordered, so it won't be here until the end of October. Damn Amazon.com anyways!Beach:Hehehehe. Don't worry. I'll have a Garand soon!

JudgeColt

Well, the plot does thicken! It now appears that you are talking about pre-ban rifles as well as post ban. If you are considering a Steyr FN-FAL, it will be pre-ban (pre-1989 import). That puts you in the $2500 to $3000 range, or more, depending on the model. In my opinion, the standard Model 50.00 Steyr FN-FAL will be most comparable to the standard M1A. The M1A will probably be a touch more accurate on average, but not by much. If the pre-ban Steyr FN-FAL is too rich for you, the DSA clones are outstanding, every bit the equal of the Steyrs in quality. If you do not want to stay with pure military looks, DSA has some target versions to consider. However, I never got the impression you were looking for a paper puncher. For a "main battle rifle," ultimate accuracy is secondary. (You know that if you have had AKs.)The FN-FAL magazines are very sturdy. However, for $5 each (retail from DSA!), buy twenty or so extra if that makes you feel better. (You might get three M14 magazines for $100 if you can find a deal.) The $5 FN-FAL magazines are used and worn, but fully functional says DSA. New springs are only $1 or $2 if the originals are weak. FN-FAL and M14 magazines are probably equal for durability, with a slight edge maybe to FN-FAL magazines.What makes the FN-FAL superior to the M1A? It may not be, depending on what characteristics are important to you. What made the majority of the free world select the FN-FAL over the other .308 designs? I would guess price may have been a factor, with the FN-FAL probably being less expensive than the others, although I have no evidence of that. The "break-open" FN-FAL breaks down for cleaning more easily, the magazines go straight in without rocking to lock, the bore axis is lower, the action is more closed to debris, etc.. I am sure M1A supporters can give you as many or more reasons why to select the M1A over the FN-FAL.If you want to spend the money for a pre-ban anything, you are entering the collector's venue, and you will pay a lot for the collector value. I am glad I have my pre-bans, but I am reluctant to shoot some of them much for fear of diminishing their collector value. I therefore shoot my current AR-10 more than the others. However, if a pre-ban you buy is not as-new-in-the-box, you will not hurt its value much by shooting it.Next!

deepsouth66

This is all funny and at the same time educational to to me. Because I just went and looked at a Springfield m1a match just yesterday. It did have the ss barrel and black fiberglass stock, I did not think I would like the fiber so much as I would the wood. But as I stood there in jerrys gun shop holding this marvolous rifle I imagined myself in the "end of the world senario" and thought how handy and sturdy a fiberglass stock would be, compared to the wood stock. well it didnt take long for jerry to come over and take the gun from my hands and told me to quit day dreaming. I laughed as he put the M-1a back in the rack, then my mind went into money mode "How can I explain to my wife where 1200.00 went", For the love of God I wanted that rifle! maybe next time.If it wasnt for that Damn car of hers being in the shop I would be the proud owner of a new M-1a. Anyways Im in love with the sprinfield and yes it may cost me my marriage, so if you dont want to be in the same boat as me, for the love of God dont pick up a Springfield M-1a!!!

concealedG36

Deepsouth, you got that right. My wife is NOT happy that I bought my M1A. But, the way I see it, she'll forget all about it after we go clothes shopping for her (when I can save up some more $$). And, even if that doesn't make her happy, eventually she'll stop being mad and I'LL STILL HAVE MY BEAUTIFUL RIFLE! Now I just need to figure out how to explain all those packages that are arriving in the mail (extra magazines, ammo, sling, etc. etc. etc.)

Evil ATF

Judge:I'm looking at the post-ban rifles. I think pre-ban anythings are way over-rated. Why pay an extra $2,000 just so you can put on your M4 collapsable stock or whatever. Yuck.So, it sounds like I should check out the DS Arms rifles. I'm definately NOT looking for a target model, but I still want excellent accuracy. That's why I'm ditching the AK's. They have all the reliability that I need, they just can't hit squat beyond 250-300 yards. Switching MBR's was a tough call to make, because I'm already SHTF compliant with my AK's. I've got several thousand rounds of new production Wolf, about 30 magazines between all the AK's, spare parts, cleaning supplies, etc etc etc. The whole family would be armed to the teeth with all the extra parts we'd ever need. However, I need the extra power and range. Can the DS Arms FAL make the critical LD shots? What's the effective range of one of their "battle models". Groups? 1" at 100 yards? 2"? 3"?Thanks, Judge. You have now put enough doubt in my mind that I have to go back to the FAL Versus M1A thread. Please post all further replies there.