HOW CAN YOU MAKE A RECOILESS GUN?

Gene B.

HOW CAN YOU MAKE A RECOILESS GUN? THAT SOUNDS IMPOSSIBLE. BUT ON ONE POST IT SAID THE RUSSIANS ARE MAKING AN ASSUALT RIFLE WITH NO RECOIL. COULD YOU PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME HOW THIS NEW SYSTEM WORKS leeblackman?

218Beekeep

Take out the firing pin!

kimberkid

The phazers on Star Trec dont seem to have any recoil!Seriously though, I dunna know ... you'd have to divert the energy to a benifical direction ... I have several rifles with the JP Enterprise "Recoil Eliminator" and they are very effective ... makes my Remington 700 .308 feel like an AR-15 ... but the side blast will blow a guys ball cap off his head from 5 feet away ...

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GUN CONTROL: If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention!kimberkid@gunbroker.zzn.com

badboybob

Gene the 105 mm recoiless rifle works very well. Of course it isn't shoulder fired and you wouldn't want to stand behind it!

opentop

Well some guys back in the 60s made a rocket gun that fired little solid fuel rockets, that had no recoil. Their 3 exhaust nozzles were crooked around the base so that they were made to spin for stability. Unfortunately, when a rocket ignites it has almost no muzzle velocity or muzzle energy. Rockets take a moment to build up to their average traveling velocity, so you could literally put your hand in front of the gun and the rockets would come out of the barrel, hit your hand without doing any damage and then drop to the ground and fly off in an unintended direction. Or, you could stick your finger in the barrel, the rocket would move forward, stop at your finger and the exhaust would simply burn up the barrel. Provided it wasn't blocked like that at firing, once the rocket left the gun and built up to it's max velocity, it could be pretty effective. But the question is, why bother? Then there have been many people who have tried to perfect the "high power" air gun or gas gun. These work just like a CO2 pellet gun but use a gas like helium, neon or xenon which have greater expansion energy when released from compression, than does air or CO2. They usually are made to fire spin stabilized titanium flachettes (a light, slender dart like projectile, lighter and faster than lead bullets) and to make them recoiless, they have a compensating gas recirculation system that takes in the released gas and recompresses it almost simutaneously as it decompresses (discharges) thus the two actions in opposite directions cancel each other out, nearly eliminating recoil.Another idea people are working on are two forms of magnetic accelerator weapon that use small but powerful ring magnets positioned around the barrel every inch or so with their lines of magnetic force angled so that the projectile is pushed through the barrel and accelerated. When a round (usually a steal bullet) is moved into the chamber end of the ring magnet surrounded barrel and released, the magnetic lines of force from the successive ring magnets accelerate it through the barrel. This would have no recoil, since there would be no "action" to cause an "opposite and equal reaction" (the fact of natural physics that causes recoil). Two methods are under developement. One is an "electro magnet" accelerator weapon that uses electrical power to create magnetic fields in the barrel's ring electro magnets (same way an electric motor creates a magnetic field, same way the earth does for that matter). In the electromagnetic accelerator, the magnets are electrified in succession to create the acceleration. The other method is a "permanent magnet" device that simply uses angled permanently magnatized rings with increasing power magnetic fields that simply "take hold" of the projectile and accelerate it through the barrel. Obviously the permanent magnet method would be simpler and probably cheaper as you wouldn't need a batteries, etc. to power it, but making successively more powerful permanently magnatised magnets that don't lose their field strength over time is pretty hard, so the electro-magnet method shows more promise.The easiest way to make a recoiless weapon is the good old bazooka or something like the LAAW rocket. A tube open at both ends that is held over the shoulder, which fires small solid fuel rockets. The need for a true recoiless weapon is practically a mute point though today. Arms makers are constantly coming up with better gas operation systems and gas charged shock absorption systems in place of recoil springs, etc. and Steyr has developed a gas operated, gas compensated semi-auto or automatic bolt system in which the whole barrel moves as part of the action, called an "eclipsing bolt" that almost eliminates recoil altogether. Given enough time, gun makers will eliminate recoil in guns even though they'll still fire good old metalic cartridges.

Rembrandt

Browning has had a recoiless competition shotgun out for some time...

JudgeColt

Rocket guns are "recoiless." The 1960s gun mentioned was probably the GyroJet made by MBA, which fired 12mm (most common) or 13mm rockets. I am not sure about putting one's hand in front of the barrel, but they were not accurate and were expensive to shoot. The gun (actually a rocket launcher) was expensive to shoot and soon died in the market place.

opentop

Just read an article about White Sands Test Facility testing a high pressure compressed hydrogen gas gun that can fire a steel projectile at a muzzle velocity of about 24,000fps. That's a damn fast bullet!

opentop

JudgeColt - honest I saw that thing about "putting your hand in front" of the GyroJet's barrel and stopping the rockets, on the History Channel's "Tails Of The Gun", their episode on strange and unusual firearms. I've found them to be fairly accurate about most of what they've covered on that show.

opentop

Now, if you're asking me if I'd be willing to test the theory, well I'd have to say no.

cbxjeff

JudgeColt,I have been talking about this Gyrojet for 10 years to my buds. They think I'm crazy. I may well be, but it's got nothing to do with my recall of a friend back in the 60's that had one. Ever see one at shows? I'm printing your comment and passing it around tomorrow.Jeff

opentop

cbxjeff - here you go http://www.hwth.com/guns/MBA_Gyrojet.htm

opentop

kimberkid makes a good point, directed energy weapons produce no recoil. So, Gene B., go out and create the first practicle laser rifle or pistol or man portable particle beam gun, patent it and you'll be the Sam Colt of the 21st Century.

Txs

Not exactly a shoulder fired, but I recall reading once about a WWI aircraft cannon for air-to-ground use. I don't remember the bore size, but it was probably 30-40mm. One charge simultaneously fired the main projectile down the bore and an equivalent weight load of lead shot/petroleum jelly out the rear of the tube.The opposing recoils supposedly canceled each other out, allowing them to be mounted on the flimsy airplanes of the era.Makes me wonder what the folks on the ground thought when wads of vaseline started falling from the sky.[This message has been edited by Txs (edited 09-28-2001).]

ironsites

opentop-- Magnets in the barrel cause no recoil? Physics describe any object will stay put until an equal opposite force is applied. To accelerate a bullet to 2500 fps in 24 inches a great force is needed. The magnets will be pulling the bullet therefore will be pushing back. There is no such thing as no recoil- only an opposite force oposing in the opposite direction at the same time. This is usually achieved by blowback gas (compressed gas) relieving at the same time the weapon is fired. "Thats all folks"

idsman75

While spending 2 months at Ft Jackson, SC I managed to hit several pawn shops with a friend of mine just to see what kind of firearms they had in their inventory. I found a NIB GyroJet that had a $3,000 price tag on it. The guy behind the counter let me hold it. It isn't much of a gun but it was a rare experience.

Rosie

You guys should shoot Brownings recoiless trap shot gun. almost like shootinh a .22. Rosie

opentop

ironsites - technically you are correct, but the "equal opposite reaction" of magnetic fields accelerating the projectile one way down the barrel, would be hardly noticable.

ED P

Gene B,The new soviet gun you refer to, the AN-94, does have recoil, but they delay it with a reciprocating barrel until after 2 rapid succession shots have gone off, to allow an accurate double shot before the gun begins bucking. The recoil is still there, just delayed.Recoiless guns do exist, but they are big anti-tank style weapons mounted on vehicles or tripods, and are similiar to a bazooka with alot of back blast vented out to minimize recoil.

JudgeColt

Ed P, those are really rocket launchers, not guns that accelerate a bullet down a bore due to the pressure generated by burning gases in a closed chamber. A rocket launcher tube is open at both ends. The back blast of a rocket launcher is what comes out the back of the launcher tube as the rocket fuel burns, thus equalizing the reactions and eliminating recoil.

Iconoclast

Re the Gyrojet, my recollection is that they were staggering along and probably would have gone down the tubes on their own, but GCA68 killed them because of some technicality on bore size or means of propulsion. I knew a guy who had one. Accuracy was right up there with the hand cannons and rocks of the late Middle Ages. I don't remember exactly what the ammo cost, but do remember wondering how much of the payload was made from precious metals. Wish I'd bought a few boxes . . . .opentop - very interesting & enlightening post. Appreciate it.

ysacres

YES i already have one,i think it says red rider on the stock. Just got to have one smart * in the mix.

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Ruger-Remington-RULE THE ROOST

opentop

When I was five I had a plastic Springfield Trapdoor carbine in which you put these die cast cartridges with a red, hollow, plastic "bullet" on the front end and a regular paper cap in a slot on the rear. You put this "cartridge" in the breach via the trapdoor the same way as the .45-70 cartridge in the real thing. You cocked the side hammer and pulled the trigger. A "firing pin" crushed the paper cap which went off creating a a rush of heated air in the hollow die cast cartridge which caused the hollow, red, plastic "bullet" to come off the cartridge and fly out the smooth bore barrel. It was recoiless as I recall and you could almost put your brother's eye out with it if you hit him just right at close range. I doubt they'd allow anything like that to be sold to kids as Christmas gifts now days.

.250Savage

Sounds like an assault rifle to me! F' Gods' sake, don't bring it into Kalifornia! They'll shoot you on the side of the road for having such a dangerous and deadly weapon! AND giving it to kids! For shame!

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I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.--Voltare

barto

i fired a 2.5 in. rocket launcher in 59-you damned sure wouldnt hold your hand over either end of that puppy!! the dummy rocket (no explosive charge).would penetrate over 4 in. of armor plate.

cbxjeff

Opentop,Great site. Thanks.Jeff

opentop

I'd say that sight should be enough proof to show your buddies. Get them to make a bet with you first.

arkresearch

The answer is counter-accelerating mass by gas porting into piston weights ,it functions perfectly well in any auto or semyauto weapon ,the only factor is cost and maintenance in the field versus the benefitof added acuracy in target adquisition andtermination.