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Blood Pinnings COULD DRAW BLOOD!

.250Savage.250Savage Member Posts: 812 ✭✭✭✭
edited May 2002 in General Discussion
Thank HEVVINS some officers are responsible, mature adults! Imagine this! A blood pinning THAT MIGHT ACTUALLY DRAW BLOOD!!!!!! Oh, I feel the pain of the poor servicemen (who, by the way, WEREN'T the ones to file the complaint)! After this, I'm sure our servicemen were having a big group hug, having never SEEN blood before!!!!

Christ.

I'm sure this will be good news to all the fanatical, "willing to die for Allah" terrorists around the globe. "American soldiers won't even have a PIN driven into their chests as a sign of honor! WE would take a bullet! Now we know they truly ARE weak!"

I'll wager boku buck both "reporting officers" were chicks... Thank God they lowered the standards so girls could get into the military. It sure has made the military stronger, leaner, and better able to do it's job...

http://www.uniontrib.com/news/uniontrib/fri/metro/news_7m3blood.html

Local Navy unit leader relieved in hazing case
'Blood pinning' incident prompts investigation


By James W. Crawley
STAFF WRITER

May 3, 2002


The Navy is investigating a reported "blood pinning" hazing incident at a downtown restaurant and has relieved a local unit's commander, the service announced yesterday.

Cmdr. Robert Seligman, commanding officer of Explosives Ordnance Disposal Mobile Unit 3, was reassigned after two officers told authorities hazing had occurred April 18, Navy officials said.

"There's no room for hazing in the Navy," said a spokesman, Cmdr. Rob Newell.

Investigators are trying to determine whether Seligman - as part of a ceremony marking the completion of an officer's training - placed a metallic badge on a lieutenant's uniform without the protective caps, then used his fist to pound the insignia's pins into the officer's chest.

The junior officer suffered puncture wounds but no serious injuries, Newell said.

Two other officers at the dinner reported the incident to their units, initiating the investigation.

No charges have been filed, but Seligman potentially faces a general court-martial or administrative punishment.

The investigation is being overseen by Capt. Michael Tillotson of Explosives Ordnance Disposal Group 1. Newell said the Naval Criminal Investigative Service, the service's civilian criminal detective unit, is not involved.

Seligman could not be reached for comment yesterday.

Mobile Unit 3 disarms bombs, mines and explosives. It has about 80 officers and enlisted men and women who are routinely deployed with aircraft carriers and amphibious groups. The unit also keeps, trains and uses dolphins to locate mines and enemy swimmers.

The reported hazing happened during a "hail and farewell" dinner April 18 marking recent transfers to and from the unit, stationed at the Naval Amphibious Base in Coronado. Attending the dinner were 17 officers and 13 civilian guests.

"Blood pinning" was part of many elite units' initiations for decades. The Pentagon banned the practice as it clamped down on hazing in the late 1990s.

The most notorious blood-pinning incident involved Marine Corps paratroopers.

Videotapes that came to light in 1997 showed two initiations in 1991 and 1993 during which Marines could be seen grimacing in pain after fellow Marines used fists to pound newly awarded paratrooper pins into their chests. Blood could be seen.

In one scene, a helmeted Marine was picked up by others and used as a human battering ram to slam a paratrooper's gold-winged insignia into another Marine's chest.

After an investigation, several Marines were discharged from the military and others were reprimanded.

Traditionally, such hazing was more common in high-risk units, said David Segal, a military sociologist and University of Maryland professor.

"It demonstrates that they are tough enough to do the job," Segal said.

Hazing was prohibited by order of the Navy secretary in August 1997. The order bans striking, branding, tattooing, pinning, "tacking on" and "blood wings."

"The Navy has a zero-tolerance policy on any form of hazing or harassment," Newell said. "We're an organization committed to respecting the dignity of our service members."

Although the military justice code doesn't mention hazing, the Navy policy states that hazing constitutes a "failure to obey a lawful general order." Hazing also could violate sections on assault and battery.

When Tillotson completes the investigation, he can pass the case to an Article 32 hearing, which is a cross between a grand jury and a criminal preliminary hearing. After the hearing, an investigating officer could recommend a court-martial, administrative punishment or dropping the charges.



James W. Crawley:
(619) 542-4559; jim.crawley@uniontrib.com




Copyright 2002 Union-Tribune Publishing Co.


I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.--Voltaire~Secret Select Society Of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets~

Comments

  • RugerNinerRugerNiner Member Posts: 12,636 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    "It demonstrates that they are tough enough to do the job," Segal said.

    I thought the Training did that.
    I saw the other Videos in Question and saw nothing that bestowed Honor on another.

    Remember...Terrorist are attacking Civilians; Not the Government. Protect Yourself!
    Keep your Powder dry and your Musket well oiled.
    NRA Lifetime Benefactor Member.
  • badboybobbadboybob Member Posts: 1,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Only a candy * would object to such a rite of initiation

    PC=BS
  • idsman75idsman75 Member Posts: 13,398 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I've heard rumors of damage being done that was sufficient enough to render someone ineligible for continued service. Like I said...rumors. It still goes on in the Army. However, in the Army, there are regulations against it for CYA purposes but the powers-that-be look the other way. When cadets at West Point receive their branch assignments there is a big hot dog and beer party (paid for by your tax dollars) and then they all head back to the barracks where they drive the insignia into eachother's chests with the butts of their M-14's. They take Polaroids before pulling the insignia out of their chests. The only badges I wear are the Recruiting Badge (which isn't much of a rite of passage) and the Air Force Security Police badge (which was also not much of a rite of passage). Needless to say, neither was presented in blood. I'm sure InstrumentOfWar has a story to tell about his Airborne and Air Assault wings.

    Any damage that one inflicts upon one's self will be met with an Article 15 if it affects duty performance. Other such damage includes excessive sunburn and infected tattoos. However, tattoos and sun tanning are not illegal in the Army. You just have to make sure you are willing to pay the price if you screw up.

    SSG idsman75, U.S. ARMY
  • hackerhacker Member Posts: 162 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    guess i'm a candy *. i think this ritual is childish and stupid. it's also a little dangerous as these things can get out of hand. anybody trying to do this to me would have to pound the pin into my dead or at least unconscious body.

    i never make misteakes.
  • instrumentofwarinstrumentofwar Member Posts: 1,545 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Every time I have been promoted, blood has been drawn. Lower enlisted promotions were a b***h! Getting smoked for literaly days before getting pinned. Not to sound like a glutton for punishment, but I took pride in that. The only ones doing the so called "hazings" were NCO's that I looked up to and wanted to emulate. I have learned ALOT from them and they have undergone the same treatment, as did their mentors, and their mentors mentors also. It's a little thing called tradition. I will say that as you gain higher rank there are fewer present, when I made SSG there were only 5 NCO's that got to "pin em on". Hell my CSM put em on with a head butt. Same for the air-assault wings.

    The airborne wings are a different story, talk to anyone who was in the 82nd, that is before the nice police got there. I've got a set burned into my chest. Three things I learned that night. 1-Yaegermiester REALLY sucks. 2-When getting branded in the chest....don't flex!!!!(wouda been a perfect set of jump wings, damnit!) 3-The night it's done it really won't hurt (the smell of burnt skin isn't all that tasty, however), but for the next three weeks it'll hurt like a M.F.!

    Some people just shouldn't be allowed to breed
  • allen griggsallen griggs Member Posts: 35,695 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I bet they were femme officers that snitched them out. If so, the feminization of the military continues.

    "Not as deep as a well, or as wide as a church door, but it is enough."
  • hackerhacker Member Posts: 162 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    warguy i'm glad you are proud of letting someone tortue you but it still sounds stupid to me. a friend of mine takes karate lessons and he invited me to watch him take the test for his next belt color. it was pretty intense and at the end the head guy made him stand up straight while he kicked him in the gut and knocked him back about 10 feet. he bounced off a wall and collapsed. he couldn't get up for about 5 minutes. he said this was so he would be humble. i don't see how a ruptured sleen would make you humble. i think it's the guy who has the status showing off at the exspense of the new guy and i think earning the rank should be enough without the immature pranks. is this bs optional or is someone who declines to be assaulted and mutilated subject to being hassled by his comrades?

    i never make misteakes.
  • .250Savage.250Savage Member Posts: 812 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:
    "i think this ritual is childish and stupid."


    Hacker:

    Soooo, what's your point?

    I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.--Voltaire~Secret Select Society Of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets~
  • BoyWonderBoyWonder Member Posts: 63 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    "All things in moderation..."
    Blood wings, brandings, incentive physical training, etc. are painful but not usually permanently damaging. Unfortunatly someone always eventually takes it too far, and group beatings can and do cause permanent, service ending disabilities. Like many other things, it's the bad few messing it up for everyone else.
  • wundudneewundudnee Member Posts: 6,108 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    In the mid 90's my son got his Naval navigator wings at Pensacola N.A.S.. The pinning ceremony was held in the Naval Air Museum under the hanging Blue Angel retired F-4's. The ceremony was conducted by a young Naval astronaut that had been through the same school. Each graduate could pick who pinned on his wings and my boy honored his mother with the request to pin him. No mother is going to hurt her baby. It was a mixed Marine and Navy class and one young Marine had asked his older Marine officer brother to pin him. There was a big ROO HAH and that kid was pinned. He stood there and grinned and then the brothers hugged. It impressed me. There were a lot of big brass there and nobody seemed offended. I think since then things have gotten a lot more P.C. and I think that might not be all well.


    ....................
    AD ASTRA PER ASPERA

    To the stars through difficulties
    standard.jpg
  • hackerhacker Member Posts: 162 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    my point, savageguy, is that i think that anyone who wears the uniform of their country's armed forces has already demonstrated that they have what it takes and allowing someone to jam pins into their chest is just silly and unnecessary. it doesn't have anything to do with pc or feminization, it's just common sense. i don't see where letting someone do this to you proves anything other than how dumb you both are. i think there are better ways to celebrate and commemorate an achievement than this asinine tradition.

    i never make misteakes.
  • .250Savage.250Savage Member Posts: 812 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hacker, I was making a joke. Lighten up.

    I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.--Voltaire~Secret Select Society Of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets~
  • idsman75idsman75 Member Posts: 13,398 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    InstrumentOfWar--I knew you had some sort of mark on your body from your jump wings. I couldn't remember if you got "blooded" or branded. Now I remember.

    I came into the Army as an E-3. The only non-NCO promotion that I have received was my promotion to E-4 in 1997. After shift my platoon made me walk the gauntlet prior to doing PT. Being struck on each shoulder by the balled up fists of every member of your platoon creates some real nice complications when you have to do pushups immediately afterwards. Those guys were great--some of the greatest people I ever worked with.

    SSG idsman75, U.S. ARMY
  • hackerhacker Member Posts: 162 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    i get it now savageguy, point. pretty funny. i am a little slow on getting jokes sometimes.

    i never make misteakes.
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