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Lethal Force?
gunpaq
Member Posts: 4,607 ✭✭
I have been watching some extensive local news coverage about a man who was shot and killed with a single shot to the chest by PA State Police while he was confronted swinging a garden rake at his home during a response to a domestic disturbance call by his girlfiend who was not on the premises. Neighbors who witnessed the event say the shooting was not necessary describing the man shot as a good neighbor and the State Police say it was justified since the officer felt threatened. The officer was not alone at the time as several cars responded.
I taught at a private school facility for young offenders for more than 10 years and being confronted by an 18 yr old 6'250lbs client swinging a garden rake was a minor event.
In another lethal force type shooting several years ago in southern PA the person shot survived despite 9 bullet wounds. I knew the lady who was shot, a nonviolent bozo and mother. She was pulled over for drunk driving then lead a slow speed chase with 4-way flashers on to a lighted parking lot 1/4 mile away (police and TV/radio were telling women to put flashers on and drive to a public and well lit area due to a fake LEO rapist on the lose at that time). This chase prompted a massive response by the local police departments. In a drunken stuper she attempted to park her car but was cut off by police cars and then as directed by the LEO's she proceeded to get out of her car. With the car door open and one leg out she stepped on the gas (she was still seatbelted in but too drunk to notice) and the car lurched forward about 3' against a police car and stalled, that is when the LEO's opened fire. A big ivestigation was launched by the county DA and it was found that the shooting was justified since LEO's have the right to use letahl force any time they feel that their lives may be threatened and when the car lurched forward they were in fear of their lives. Fortunately the women did survive.
I do know the circumstances of my bozo aquaintence but not the man with the rake but in any case the rake man did not seem to justify lethal force in my mind and certainly not for the drunk woman in the car.
My question is: Is the use of letahl force strictly up to the individual LEO's descretion and are the rules of engagement different between departments and states?
Pack slow, fall stable, pull high, hit dead center.<BR>
I taught at a private school facility for young offenders for more than 10 years and being confronted by an 18 yr old 6'250lbs client swinging a garden rake was a minor event.
In another lethal force type shooting several years ago in southern PA the person shot survived despite 9 bullet wounds. I knew the lady who was shot, a nonviolent bozo and mother. She was pulled over for drunk driving then lead a slow speed chase with 4-way flashers on to a lighted parking lot 1/4 mile away (police and TV/radio were telling women to put flashers on and drive to a public and well lit area due to a fake LEO rapist on the lose at that time). This chase prompted a massive response by the local police departments. In a drunken stuper she attempted to park her car but was cut off by police cars and then as directed by the LEO's she proceeded to get out of her car. With the car door open and one leg out she stepped on the gas (she was still seatbelted in but too drunk to notice) and the car lurched forward about 3' against a police car and stalled, that is when the LEO's opened fire. A big ivestigation was launched by the county DA and it was found that the shooting was justified since LEO's have the right to use letahl force any time they feel that their lives may be threatened and when the car lurched forward they were in fear of their lives. Fortunately the women did survive.
I do know the circumstances of my bozo aquaintence but not the man with the rake but in any case the rake man did not seem to justify lethal force in my mind and certainly not for the drunk woman in the car.
My question is: Is the use of letahl force strictly up to the individual LEO's descretion and are the rules of engagement different between departments and states?
Pack slow, fall stable, pull high, hit dead center.<BR>
Comments
God forbid that we have blood hungry leo's out there.
But I do get worried that their training is more like military enemy killers than local leo's.
But, if it were you, what would you have done. And don't tell me because you weren't there and you don't know what really happened.
Each agency/department has a "Use of Force" policy. The policy is in black and white, however, has many ways of interpretation depending upon the incident. To answer your question, each officer determines how much force to use based on what LEO's call the "totality of the circumstances". This is basically everything about the incident like time of day, weather, what type of call,number of people involved, etc... There can be many factors. It is up to the officer, at that time, to determine the use of force. There are many hours on use of force, however, no call is textbook!As for the incident you posted, I was not there so I would not know if it was justified without having all the facts. Hope this helps.
Put the rake down, turn the car off, get the names of all witnesses if able, get his badge number and name, give it to someone else as soon as possible, get a good lawyer.
I suppose, if you feel threatened, if he is going to shoot you no matter what and you have a CCW and are carrying, defend yourself, but then leave the country.
When you wrestle a 'gator, there ain't no good end!!
"Molon Labe!" Spartan General-King Leonidas
We had a case like that locally and the police readily acknowledged they were forced into a situation of using deadly force. Most of us would hope that police were more readily equipped to use non-lethal force, but that doesn't always play out.
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