How many shots to kill a Pitbull?

alledan · November 2001

Police shoot dog they say had bitten several people.Police shot and killed a dog yesterday on the sidewalk on Hartman Street near Central Avenue in central Toledo after a failed attempt to control the animal that, authorities said, had bitten several people.The victims, whose names were not available, were treated at St. Vincent Mercy Medical Center. It was unclear last night who owned the dog.Officers arrived about 6:35 p.m. after someone called 911 and found John Canfield of 3005 Hartman holding the dog down after i had been hit with a baseball bat which broke upon impact. They tried to put a dog noose around its neck, but it broke free. After officers failed to hold it to the ground with a dog-controlling device, they shot it 22 times before the animal died, police said.The Lucas County dog warden's office was testing the animal for rabies last night

Mojorisin · November 2001

Sounds like the officers need some target practice..22 short, 1 shot between the eyes,dead pitbull.Pit bull owner- a stout slap in the face & a good scolding for owning such a stupid & vicious breed.

TED GAR · November 2001

They must not have been using a 45acp with silvertip hollowpoints! One shot one kill.

Mojorisin · November 2001

Has anyone ever seen a really old pitbull in my experience most of them do not live too long as the owner or somebody else puts them down due to their defense attitude towards anything bigger than them.

nunn · November 2001

Some of you have apparently never had to shoot an angry dog that is facing you. They can be VERY hard to down. The skull is hard and sloped. I have had my bullet strike the skull and slide over the top without penetrating. A charging dog offers little else to hit. The chest is partially shielded by the head. Plus the dog is moving quickly in your direction with bared teeth.I have seen a Rottweiler take about a dozen hits from .40 caliber pistols before he quit attacking. He then retreated to a protected position between a fence and a stack of lumber. It was from this position that he was finally euthanized with a 12 gauge. He was no longer a threat, but he was put down at that point to end his suffering. BTW, his owners were very understanding. They knew he was a bad dog, and for whatever reason, he was not in his fenced yard. They raised him to be a threat to strangers, and they fully understood why he was killed.Now, a standing broadside shot at a dog is another story. Large vitals easily reached through the rib cage or shoulder.Never Monday-morning quarterback these kinds of reports unless you have been there.PS: A dog is a dog is a dog. Pit bulls are no different. I have seen many that were angry, useless, neglected creatures. I have seen many more that were gentle, loving family pets that let the kids ride their backs and pull their ears. To damn a breed for being what it is is wrong. It is only a product of its training, or lack thereof.

Certified SIG pistol armorer/FFL Dealer/Full time Peace Officer, Moderator of the General Discussion Board on Gunbroker. Visit www.gunbroker.com, the premier gun auction site on the Net! Email davidnunn@texoma.net Jesus is Lord![This message has been edited by nunn (edited 11-08-2001).]

mudge · November 2001

I defy anybody to look in the AKC registry and find a breed with the name "Pit Bull".No such thing. If you look under "American Staffordshire Terrier" you'll see them. They are no more a fierce BREED than a Beagle. They are what their owners make them.Anyone who trains any breed of dog to be an attack dog should be held liable for the actions of that dog.Any dog that attacks any person, that I am witness to, will get as many rounds as it takes to stop the attack......then I reload and find the owner!!Mudge the vindictive

I can't come to work today. The voices said, STAY HOME AND CLEAN THE GUNS!

Txs · November 2001

It's not something enjoy, but in the course of my job I've been put in the position of having to shoot vicious dogs following unprovoked attacks against people and animals.Rule #1- If the dog has bit someone don't make a head shot. To keep the victim from having to undergo rabies treatment unneccessarily, the animal's brain must remain intact for testing.In my experience, no handgun can be relied upon to drop an agitated dog quickly without breaking a shoulder or making a brain/spine hit. As occurred in this story, I've seen dogs take a surprising number of body hits from 9mm's, .357's or .45's and remain a threat. These hits may eventually be fatal, but prolong the danger, are inhumane and you run the risk of having the wounded animal flee.The only reliable weapon for stopping a dog in it's tracks is a shotgun. Shot size doesn't seem to be as important as the multiple projectile impact of the shot load. #6 birdshot seems to be as effective as buckshot, as long as the shot pattern stays under about 12-16 inches.If it has to be done, the proper weapon should be used in order to stop these animals as efficiently as possible.

Mojorisin · November 2001

Nunn, I must disagree with you on the dog is a dog part of your post, I feel that different traits are bred into Different breeds & are very hard to change , now I'm sure that some pitbulls live out their lives in a peacful, gentle manner, but I would bet that most of them are very tempermental animals that will eventually turn on their owners & show some aggression. I have never owned a pitbull but I have been around several of them & it seems that whenever I read of a dog attack in the paper 90% of the time these attacks involve pitbulls attacking children. Perhaps I am wrong but these are just my observations & I will not let my children ride a pitbull, doberman, rottweiler, or chow & surely some other breeds, Now a purebred black lab would be a different story.Just my opionion,Mojorisin [This message has been edited by Mojorisin (edited 11-08-2001).][This message has been edited by Mojorisin (edited 11-08-2001).]

travelor · November 2001

First there's peanut..Bull Terrior...jaw muscles as big as biceps (nearly). belonged to a friend of mine. H was as sweet a pet as you could want, as long as he new you. Only towards people. He had this nasty habit of attacking the nieghbors horse. Would latch on, and dangle there while the horse kicked and bucked, and ran all over the paddock trying to shake the dog. The dog would also attack any other animal that invaded his territory. I never could figure out why a guy would want to keep a dog like him. He was finnaly shot. Next there's another friend of mine. He was riding his bike, with his two sons. One in the child seat behind, One his own bike. Some guy didn't secure the door to his house when he left, and his Bull Terrior got out just as my friend was riding by. the dog attacked, trying to pull the boy of his bike by his leg. When my fiend laid his bike down (with the child still strapped in) and went after the dog, it urned from the child and attacked dad. He received two nasty leg bites, one on his chest, one on his arm, and one on his face. He went down for a moment, and the dog went after the small child in the seat. Luckily for the child, the seat back was high enough to shield his head from the force of the bite. The dog's teeth were partly snagged in the plastic, and only tore the boy's ear 85% off. By this time a neighbor who new the dog's name called it off, and mannaged to get it on its chain. This was the second offence involving this animal, as it had pinned an old woman in her car for over an hour on a previous occasion. The dog was taken into custody, and eventually destroyed. The owner got a dog at large ticket. My friend and his kids were severly traumatized by thier attacks and injuries. two weeks later, the owner got another pit bull. the bumper sticker on the back of is truck says "American Pit Bull" and depicts the siloette of a bull dog with a blood dripping, torn-off human arm in its jaws.... I'm sorry, but I have to say that if ever there were a valid reason for genoside, it would be for this breed of animal.

keep lots of extra uppers for your ar..you can change often enough to keep the thing from over heating...what ever caliber fits the moment..~Secret Select Society of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets~

turbo · November 2001

I've heard that dog owners usually own dogs that resemble and in some cases look very much like it's owner."Hard skull, and sloped" is a dead give away of the possible description of the owner.Sounds like the "missing link."

j2k22 · November 2001

Ted- gotta agree with Nunn on this; had a friend who went to serve a warrant end up shooting a Dobie with a .45 Silvertip after the dog made a surprise attack. The dog yelped and ran, but was still functional. Most folks have very little experience shooting at close-in targets, let alone fast moving ones. Couple this with a dog's single-minded dedication to the attack, and their high tolerance for pain, and it can be a real problem to stop them. As previously stated, unless you break the spine or a major joint, they keep on coming. This is a case where high-cap mags earn their keep.Also agree with the conclusion that the shotgun is the best way to go, in the rare event that you are actually carrying one when attacked.

Lowrider · November 2001

I disagree with wholesale condemnation of a certain breed. I was friends with a guy in Oklahoma who raised bull terriers for strength competition. They would put dogs in a harness and the dog would pull a loaded (2000 lbs.) wheel sled down a track. Pretty amazing to watch.He had a dozen of these dogs and I never felt threatened by any of them. Any dog will bite someone given the right circumstances. It's just that when a bull bites somebody it usually does a lot better job of it.I get along great with any and all dogs. I've only been bitten a few times in my life and two of those bites were by dachshunds. Are they considered a dangerous breed?

Lord Lowrider the LoquaciousMember:Secret Select Society of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets She was only a fisherman's daughter,But when she saw my rod she reeled.

Mojorisin · November 2001

Lets analyze where the word "pit" in pitbull comes from, I say that it means that the dogs were bred to be placed in a pit or ring to fight with another dog to the death for gambling purposes. I used to know a guy who knew a guy from Oklahoma that supplied pitbulls to the bikers around this area for just such events & these dogs were trained & excersized by pulling heavy sleds, probably not the same guy though. I was at this fellows house once for something or other & he brought one of his pitbulls out to the garage where there was a treadmill set up, he said the he had a big fight set up for the dog next month & was conditioning it, he then strapped the dog to the treadmill with a body harness, stood me in front of the dog & told me to clap my hands once, immediately the dog began running towards me on the tread mill, this dog ran hard for a good half hour looking right at me while I visited with the guy. Eventually I left with the dog still running, it was very unnerving & I don't think the dog wanted to kiss me. [This message has been edited by Mojorisin (edited 11-08-2001).]

travelor · November 2001

I realize that the owner/trainer is primarily responsible for the way an animals disposition turns out. But as Mojorison stated, how many really make it to old age? Some where in their breeding, they picked up a territorial domminence, that coupled with their incredible strength, produces a highly unstable animal. I would hate to see what would happen if a few of these dogs slipped through the cracks in some secluded area, and began to cross with wolves, for instance, and became farrel pack dogs. Instinct is a powerful influence. And owner training would no longer play a roll. In a territorial pack, these formidible animals would present quite a challenge for one guy with a shotgun, or .45, regaurdless of how many extra mags you have.

keep lots of extra uppers for your ar..you can change often enough to keep the thing from over heating...what ever caliber fits the moment..~Secret Select Society of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets~

royc38 · November 2001

Its like anyhthing else: shot placement. 22 rds sounds like a bit much but I wasn't there. Now in my experience I have seen dogs go down with one shot from a .45 and one dog took 8 hits from a .223 and I still had to beat it in the head with a club to kill it. Now that was my fault because of my great marksmanship when I was 18 and knew everything. I have seen farmers shoot bulls down with a 22 short revolver, so it goes back to shot placement. I don't know what happened but I am glad I wasn't there.

218Beekeep · November 2001

I saw my sisters boyfriend breakup a dogfight when I was 16,it was very impressive!It was his dog,that was the bigger of the two dogs in the fight,and he was geting the better of the other.About a year later I came upon a bad dogfight,and the bigger dog was puttin down some wup * on the other dog,who`s owner was a teenage girl,and she was crying and screaming.I did what I`d seen the other guy do,I ran at the aggressor,and in one motion,without stopping grabbed him by the skin of the both thighs,up front near the crease.Without stopping ,in one motion swinging him like the guys in the summer olympics swing that thing with a cable on it,letting him fly.The other dog hauled * by that time,and the one I`d swung did the same.The girl was very happy,and I could have probably scored...only I was with some other chick at the time...That was a Bummer...It was a drag..It blew my high!!!.218

nunn · November 2001

Beekeeper: That method for breaking up a dogfight was published in an outdoor magazine and it USUALLY works. Grab the dog getting the best end of it and the other one will run away.I say it usually works, but not always. The method assumes that the dog that is getting whipped KNOWS he is getting whipped.My sister had a medium size dog that was VERY protective of her kids. I had a large collie mix. Once when they were visiting, my collie got too close to one of the kids and the fight was on. My dog had sis's dog down and was working him over pretty good. I grabbed my dog by the hind legs and lifted him free. Now the other dog was supposed to gladly run off, but he didn't. He apparently wasn't through fighting and had not been convinced that he was whipped. As soon as I got my dog free, sis's dog came up like a comet with teeth. He missed my dog, but made a direct hit on my arm. Bit me but good. Fortunately, he had his shots, but it still hurt and bled a lot. I could not blame him either. He was doing his job as he saw it.And he wasn't a pit bull either.

Certified SIG pistol armorer/FFL Dealer/Full time Peace Officer, Moderator of the General Discussion Board on Gunbroker. Visit www.gunbroker.com, the premier gun auction site on the Net! Email davidnunn@texoma.net Jesus is Lord!

travelor · November 2001

The comments about the simmilarities between a pitbull and a dachshund are rediculous. I've been bitten by similar small dogs before also, and though I think small dogs are pretty useless also (good pets for some)I never considered killing one of them for biting me or anyone elce. A paper cut, compared to the bite of a pitbull. I've heard that a pitbull has more strength in his jaws than a gator. And when they cross that line, there is simply no turning back. Some thing gets switch on, that doesn't turn back off. They get a lust for it.

keep lots of extra uppers for your ar..you can change often enough to keep the thing from over heating...what ever caliber fits the moment..~Secret Select Society of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets~

218Beekeep · November 2001

nunn,sounds like your dogfight might have been in close quarters,and both dogs had good reason to be there:your dog lived there,and sis`s dog was there with it`s family.I could see how neither would have a place to run to,and it might not work as good.The dogfights I mentioned were out in the open...back when dogs ran around stealin steaks off the grill,and there were no leash laws.The dogs in those fights both had seperate homes to run to.Dogs can get a person in a lot of trouble,back in the 70s my sister in law shot a dog that had killed her chickens ,and it died with one in it`s mouth.The guy it belonged to had the nerve to press charges against her..218

Mojorisin · November 2001

When I was a teenager my best friends girlfriend had a dog that was half pitbull & I think half beagle,anyhow this dog I swear looked just like Petey off the Little Rascals & that was his name. We were frisbee playing fools in those days & Petey liked to play also, the only problem was that when he got the frisbee he would chew it up into little pieces before we could get it away from him which would end our frisbee playing until we could buy a new one. I came up with a plan to save our precious frisbees,before we would start playing I would go to a good sized tree with a low stout limb, grab the limb & bend it down as far as I could & call Petey to me & sic him on the limb which he would immediately lock onto with his strong jaws then I would let the limb go & it would hoist Petey off the ground a few feet,of course being half pitbull he would'nt let go for a while & would just dangle there for a bit which would allow us to play frisbee without the threat of losing it.When he would let go I would repeat the process for more playing time.Petey eventually started killing cows & had to be put down but that dog cost me a lot of frisbees.

Lowrider · November 2001

Travelor: My comments ridiculous? My good man. Is that any way to address a brother from the Smoking Jacket Club?Before you get too pissy you might re-read my post.I wasn't suggesting any similarities between pit bulls and dachshunds. I said I'd been around a lot of bulls, probably many more than the average man, and had never felt threatened by any of them. By contrast, I have been bitten twice by dachshunds. My point being that any breed of dog will bite you given the right circumstances. Which would I rather be bitten by? The weenie dog, of course. The bulls have a tendency to rip limbs off when they get a good clamp on you.The reason for my post was to disagree with blanket condemnation of any particular breed of dog.After being bitten I certainly never thought of campaigning for laws against owning dachshunds.

Lord Lowrider the LoquaciousMember:Secret Select Society of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets She was only a fisherman's daughter,But when she saw my rod she reeled.

timberbeast · November 2001

The snout, guys! A good slap with a stick across the snout will stun any dog (just below the eyes), long enough to kill him with a simple chest crush to bust the heart (no trappers around?). However, in the aforementioned situation, I will defer to the cops. They did what they had to as best they could. I had to shoot a feral housecat once, which was "unloading" his "previous dinners" in my barn. Hit him right through one eye with a .22 LR hollow point. I couldn't fire again. I think he climbed every wall in the room twice, looked like the danged Tasmanian Devil! I never would have hit him, safely. It took a good minute before he was done. Back of the skull had a hole the size of a nickel. You never know. I tried to trap him, but found out why I didn't after he was dead....had a couple of missing toes, so he was trap-wise. I had to get rid of him because he was messing with my cats, and I had no idea if he was rabid or not. Tests said he wasn't, but he was a mean, dirty s.ob. and I had to get rid of him, hell, I have kids.

barto · November 2001

great danes forever!!

alledan · November 2001

Timberbeast, the pitbull was hit hard enough in the head to break the baseball bat into two pieces and all it did was minorly stun him.The police here carry 9MM sigs. It would appear that this round fired in this kind of situation might be a little too inadequite to stop an animal like the pitbull on it's attack run. Apparently this animal has a highdeflection factor to protect it's head.Secondly, I have concerns about that many rounds fired in the center of a major city. It is always the question of of hitting innocent bystanders either directly or by richochet. When an incident of high interest exposes itself, all the idiots in the neighborhood come out and gather in groups as close as possible to the action.Concerning domestic animals,they are like computer they are only as "good" or "bad" as the programmer[This message has been edited by alledan (edited 11-09-2001).]

travelor · November 2001

Sir Lowrider, My appologies if I was offensive or offending, none intended, buddy. I just have seen and heard nothing but bad from a breed of dog that has only been developed for one purpose. I guess that all the controversy is what makes for good conversation. And I just expressed my opinion. Maybe we could call back our men in Afgahnistan, and ship all the wild bulldogs there, let them rip the limbs off the taliban, before we carpet bomb the place with daisy cutters. I bet those hounds of hell would do just fine in the tunnels....

keep lots of extra uppers for your ar..you can change often enough to keep the thing from over heating...what ever caliber fits the moment..~Secret Select Society of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets~

alledan · November 2001

It would be a sight to see-a dog fight that is! [This message has been edited by alledan (edited 11-12-2001).]

timberbeast · November 2001

alledan: I realize that, but all you have to do is smack yourself across the bridge of the nose to see how it feels. Dogs are much more stunned by this because of their huge nasal passages. All you have to do then is stomp him as hard as you can directly behind the front shoulder. You'll actually feel the heart beat cease. I realize the cops didn't know this, but adrenaline can make the best of us over-react. I would have preferred to have seen them use a shotgun blast first, but I was not there....so....who am I to point fingers, and how do I know that the media reporting was correct. I trust the media as far as I can throw them!!! Just my opinion, no ill-will intended.

averagedude · November 2001

A former pizza drivers view on dogs...I have been bitten by dogs several times. I don't like dogs period. Big, little, medium miniature it doesn't matter. They are all walking sets of teeth waiting to clamp down on somebody. How many times have I heard the he/she doesn't bite phrase and then suddenly (insert dogs name here) is trying to munch on my leg and make dinner out of me. I dont care about why the dog bit me. Just that the dog bit me and its owner better have homeowners insurance. I loved the people who would say "(Insert dogs name here) has never done that before. I base the following statement on my experence with dogs. "Cats are cool"

semi-auto · November 2001

Don't count on most dog owners having any sense, let alone insurance for liability. As all of the recent local maulings have proved, the dog owners were irresponsible asinine fools, who drool more than their animals do.

will270win · November 2001

When in doubt, empty the magazine.

When it absolutely, positively,has to be destroyed overnight.....U.S. MARINES. will270win@aol.com ~Secret Select Society Of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets~

Patrick Odle · November 2001

Dogs is the only animal I fear. This includes bi-ped and quad. I have a chapter in my book about dealing with a biteing dog,titled (Why I shot widder Greelow,s Bo Boo)I respect snakes but I don't fear them,I havehad a cotton-mouth the size of a half-dollarin my right hand. the snake wraped around my arm and tried to pull his head loose from my hand. Amazing how strong it was, but I was holding him far enough up his neck to keep him from pulling his head loose. You know how long a snakes neck is, well I have never seenone with shoulders.

How many shots to kill a Pitbull?

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