In order to participate in the GunBroker Member forums, you must be logged in with your GunBroker.com account. Click the sign-in button at the top right of the forums page to get connected.

Police Push for National Gun Privileges

Josey1Josey1 Member Posts: 9,598 ✭✭
edited May 2002 in General Discussion
Police Push for National Gun Privileges
5/24/2002



Email

Print

Subscribe



Citing the terrorism threat, law-enforcement groups are urging Congress to pass a concealed-carry law that would allow police officers to carry their firearms anywhere in the United States, the Criminal Justice Funding Report reported March 27.

"For too long, this has been considered a firearms issue," said Steve Young, national president of the Fraternal Order of Police (FOP). "If it ever was just a firearms issue, it certainly is that no longer. On Sept. 11, 2001 it became a critical public-safety issue.'

The Community Protection Act is cosponsored by 245 members of the U.S. House of Representatives. Despite the support, the measure has not moved out of the House Judiciary Committee.

The bill would exempt active and retired law-enforcement officers from state and local bans on carrying concealed weapons. The measure would not apply to officers under disciplinary action.

"The tools of the police officer are the badge and the gun," said Young. "The badge symbolizes the officer's authority; the gun enforces it. These tools are given in trust to the officer to enforce the peace and fight crime. The Fraternal Order of Police seeks a measured extension of that trust to improve the safety and security of the public."

http://www.jointogether.org/gv/news/summaries/reader/0,2061,551320,00.html







"If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878

Comments

  • leeblackmanleeblackman Member Posts: 5,303 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Everyone should be able to take their guns anywhere in the nation, not just police...

    If I'm wrong please correct me, I won't be offended.

    The sound of a 12 gauge pump clears a house fatser than Rosie O eats a Big Mac !
  • AlpineAlpine Member Posts: 15,092 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I would agree absolutely. However there has to be a starting point for the next round of laws to extend CCW that are issued by local (in the case of Kalirornia: Sheriff) law enforcement, to be recongized nationwide. When doing out of state work we used to have to have a letter from the Sheriff, stating that we would be carrying. It was just an understanding that if another agency objected to us carrying, then they would have to deal with the state attorney general. So generally no one objected.
    This is something long past due.

    Edited by - Alpine on 05/25/2002 10:00:44
    ?The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.?
    Margaret Thatcher

    "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."
    Mark Twain
  • dheffleydheffley Member Posts: 25,000
    edited November -1
    Leeblackman,

    What's the matter with you? Do you think there's such of a thing as the second ammendment or something? And, if you do, do you think it applies to the individual? You must be living in a pre-1935 world. You need to watch more Rosie O'Blob on TV. You're becoming a social outcast!

    Save, research, then buy the best.Join the NRA, NOW!Teach them young, teach them safe, teach them forever, but most of all, teach them to VOTE!
  • LowriderLowrider Member Posts: 6,587
    edited November -1
    "The tools of the police officer are the badge and the gun...etc."

    So how does that logic apply to retired (no longer a police officer) cops? This only makes retired officers a privileged class of civilians.

    Lord Lowrider the LoquaciousMember:Secret Select Society of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets She was only a fisherman's daughter,But when she saw my rod she reeled.
  • AlpineAlpine Member Posts: 15,092 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I don't understand why you would object to, or think that a twenty year LEO veteran would not be entitled to CCW? They have had a requirement (by policy and procedures) to be armed 24/7, have made a lot of emenies by way of the nature of their employment. And you are telling them suddenly they may not carry any more? Your logic escapes me. Perhaps you can explain?
    Do miltary retirees get commissary priviliges? Yes. Think of CCW as commissary priviliges for retired LEO's.
    ?The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.?
    Margaret Thatcher

    "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."
    Mark Twain
  • mudgemudge Member Posts: 4,225 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Sorry, but I don't believe national carry for cops would be a "starting point" for anything. Lets say they do get national privileges. Are the cop unions then gonna fight as hard to get the same for non-cops? As "Big Shoulders" would say "That'll be the day!"

    Mudge the cynic

    I can't come to work today. The voices said, STAY HOME AND CLEAN THE GUNS!
  • He DogHe Dog Member Posts: 51,593 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I am not at all sure you want Albuquerque's cops running around the country carrying concealed. They tend to be a shoot first bunch.

    I agree with Saxon, they have not been noticably on our side.
  • AlpineAlpine Member Posts: 15,092 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Rank and file LEO's would. The heads of police departments, and large organizations claiming to represent the views of law enforcement, as a general rule do not support this issue. However the personal actually doing the work, would support a national CCW. If only to get some kind of standardization in place, because it certianly is a hoge-poge now.
    ?The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.?
    Margaret Thatcher

    "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."
    Mark Twain
  • rg666rg666 Member Posts: 395 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Alpine, Lots of people make enemies. Do retired Prosecutors, Judges & Lawyers have CCW permits? The issue I think is why not allow ALL Americans that can legally own a firearm the right to carry it anywhere? Why create a caste system of haves and have-nots?

    Saxon you a 100% right. The FOP has NOT supported gun rights advocates or legislation.
  • AlpineAlpine Member Posts: 15,092 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    RG666:Yes they all do.
    I do not believe there is a "caste" system in place. Retired law enforcement were not born into these jobs. It was a career they choose, and more than likely pissed off some bad persons along the way.
    I think you are about 100 years to late to aspire that a system you describe could be put in place. There are to many large population urban areas.
    The Faternal Order of Police has never represented the rank and file of working LEOs. The orgainzation, at least when they were recruiting for membership in our area, was made up of heads of departments, not representive of LEOs.

    Edited by - Alpine on 05/25/2002 19:54:44
    ?The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.?
    Margaret Thatcher

    "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."
    Mark Twain
  • gars320gars320 Member Posts: 471 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    ALPINE:
    Sorry I have to disagree with you also. There is a caste system in place already. What do you think happens if you get in an argument with an LEO now? Do you think a judge or jury is going to buy your side against a sworn officer of the court? No way ray.
    This would just extend the idea that LEO's are a special class and I don't believe for 1 minute that after they got there's that they would give a fiddlers f..t if anybody else got to carry anywhere. I have dealt with LEO's in nearly all my jobs over the last 20 years and I know they think of the BROTHERHOOD OF LEO's and anybody else is an outsider, maybe with good reason but it's there.
    As for the rank & file who do the work, yes! As individuals they probably do agree that anybody who can legally carry should have the same priviledge to carry anywhere, at least the street cops I know always did, but they are not the ones who are speaking OFFICIALY for the rank & file, it's the politically appointed chiefs etc. that call the tune as to who gets the endorsement and donations or whatever they give, and they don't support our rights at all, they have their own polital masters to please to keep their jobs.

    Nil Illegitimus Carborundum
  • dheffleydheffley Member Posts: 25,000
    edited November -1
    Alpine,

    I made several enemies when I testified in court. I have a CHL. Why should a former LEO have privileges that are not extended to all other law abiding citizens. You can't segregate a few and give them more or special privileges over others. We all equal. Remember.

    Save, research, then buy the best.Join the NRA, NOW!Teach them young, teach them safe, teach them forever, but most of all, teach them to VOTE!
  • daddodaddo Member Posts: 3,408
    edited November -1
    I say let all LEO's and law abiders carry. The more guns that are carried by the good people the better. Then someday the criminal will be out gunned.
    How about a training course for the citizens and they could carry a badge and gun.
  • BayouCritterBayouCritter Member Posts: 76 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    This type of law would address jurisdicitional problems LEO's face when they leave the jurisdiction they are sworn to serve.
  • Josey1Josey1 Member Posts: 9,598 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Retired LEO's are United States citizens,no more no less.This thought that LEO's getting National carry is a step for national carry for everyone is a crock.What does a LEO in NY have to worry about a criminal he may have locked up in NY when he is on vacation in Texas or California or Florida?This is a BIG country fellas,there is a higher probability that a vacationing non LEO will fall victim to violent crime than there is for a LEO/retired LEO,there is simply more of us out there.Then there is this "What's wrong with having a "Trained for 20 years retired LEO carrying nationwide without allowing an average citizen",what's wrong is that once an LEO is retired he has as much right to carry a firearm as I do any benefit for him and not me is definately creating a two class system.What makes a law abiding citizen any more dangerous than an ex-LEO,maybe the ex-leo is more of a risk as he may get involved when he is beyond his means an on duty LEO mistakes him for the criminal and he gets shot.I would also like to add that I have many friends in several states who are LEOs and the only "work" they put into their firearm training is what the force mandates.On the other hand the majority on my friends are non-LEO and have taken firearm training that well exceeds that of the police Dept. as well as train regularly to hone their skills.I would trust the law abiding general public for National CCW just as much as LEO's.This bill is garbage.

    "If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878

    Edited by - Josey1 on 05/26/2002 11:32:38
  • will270winwill270win Member Posts: 4,845
    edited November -1
    I'm strongly with leeblackman on this one; all or none.


    ~Secret Select Society Of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets~
  • LowriderLowrider Member Posts: 6,587
    edited November -1
    What about retired military people? If this proposed law is all about furthering national security, why aren't they including 30 year military people in on it?

    Most law enforcement agencies have a mandatory retirement age. I guess the logic is that after a certain age, your ability to do the job is in decline. What possible advantage is there to national security by having a bunch of old retired cops packing guns all over the country? Is there an age ceiling on this law? Should I sleep better at night knowing that some 85 year-old retired cop is out there with a concealed weapon?

    This whole thing is CRAP. I believe that NO ONE is better suited than ME to provide for my security and protection. I pack my piece ( or several pieces ) with me no matter where I travel in this great country. If I'm caught with it in a state that won't honor my Washington CCP, then I guess I'll just have to deal with it. More than likely, the only way my concealed weapon would come to light is if I have reason to pull it out or use it. In that event I've probably just saved my own life with it, and any charges laid on me for possession are going to much less severe than the consequences would have been had I NOT been packing.

    Lord Lowrider the LoquaciousMember:Secret Select Society of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets She was only a fisherman's daughter,But when she saw my rod she reeled.
  • AlpineAlpine Member Posts: 15,092 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Lowrider: "Most law enforcement agencies have a mandatory retirement age."
    Im sorry but mandatory retirement age is a violation of federal law.

    dheffley: You testified in court once? I'm sorry but LEO's regulary testify in court. Multipy that times a career and you can see how many emenies you can make.

    Josey1: Your 2nd amendment rights have been slowly eroding away for the last 100 years. If you expect to see legistation passed that suddenly gives you back what the orginal foundling fathers set forth, it is not gonna happen. That is simply unrealistic.
    ?The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.?
    Margaret Thatcher

    "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."
    Mark Twain
  • Josey1Josey1 Member Posts: 9,598 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:
    Josey1: Your 2nd amendment rights have been slowly eroding away for the last 100 years. If you expect to see legistation passed that suddenly gives you back what the orginal foundling fathers set forth, it is not gonna happen. That is simply unrealistic.


    Exactly so why is tipping the scales further toward one group of individuals and ignore the others a god thing? I believe you are wrong however about not getting back what the original founding fathers set forth,our 2nd amendment right will have to be restore the same way they were incroached upon,,like a frog in a boiling pot of water.It has already started with the reversal of the DOJ opinion on the 2nd amendment from a collective right to an individual right.This opens the door for many future changes for the better,also every year goes by and another state returns their citizens right to carry concealed for self defense.Will it happen overnight?No,I give no illusions that it will.But long strides have been taken already and with an aware, actively participating patriotic citizenry we can turn the corner.

    "If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
  • rg666rg666 Member Posts: 395 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    What do you call a system where some have rights others do not? Thats called a caste system.

    As Josey says, why pass a law that perpetuates this discrimination? Was carrying a gun after retirement a key factor in why a LEO chose his profession? I think not. As for the LEO's I know, they all think they have rights that others don't. Take speeding for example. And don't give me the "running silent BS". They just speed because they can. This post may make some angry but sometimes the truth is not pleasant. RG
Sign In or Register to comment.