Talking About Guns at School

gunluv280

Here's one I'm sure you'll appreciate.....My 10 year-old told me the other day that they weren't allowed to talk about guns at school--they might scare someone.I usually back the school and teachers, and expect my kids to respect them, but I told him he could talk about guns at school any time he wanted to. What do you think?

barto

i wouldnt want my son to deliberately bump heads with the powers that be but i would back him all the way if he was being a normal kid & discussing guns with his pals.we used to have free speech but its getting to be a grey area now, it seems.

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the hard stuff we do right away - the impossible takes a little longer

Bullzeye

I'm a Senior and I brought the new Ruger catalogue to school the other day.My teachers have learned by now that attempting to make a stink about it is a quick way to a major lawsuit, so they leave me alone.Especially when the entire class thinks it's amazing. More kids than I ever knew owned guns and just were afraid to mention it in school.

GreenLantern

I should preface this with the statement that I don't have kids yet but I'm of the opinion that I would never tell them to not discuss an interest or a hobby because someone else might not like it. As long as it's done in a respectful manner and such. The last thing I want a kid to do is feel ashamed or stigmatized for enjoying a legitimate interest just because some liberal school board doesn't agree with it. This is America, what happened to freedom of expression?

Hillbilly Hank

sort of related ....my six year old daughter was talking to her friends about Jesus a while back at school, and the teacher told her that they were not allowed to talk about that at school...can you believe this! Oh yes also when I was a kid I used to draw pictures of my first gun(H&R 058 topper 20g.)all the time, you'd probably say I was obsessed nowadays wonder what they'd say to that(probably send you in for mental evaluation)[This message has been edited by Hillbilly Hank (edited 02-17-2002).]

RugerNiner

SaxonPig; I totally disagree with you. I learned about the Bill of Rights in School. The First Amendment gives me the right to talk about the Second Amendment. We can't give up our rights because of criminals. Giving up your right to free speech (1st Amendment) is no different than giving up your guns (2nd Amendment). *********************************************I'm adding this after my Post. Obviously you want to teach your Kids what has happened (Columbine & 911) and not push the envelope by them talking about weapons of mass destruction. But to use good judgement in their conversation. I strongly beleive that the more we comply with the bleeding hearts the bigger opportunity we are giving them to take more of are rights from us. Remember...Terrorist are attacking Civilians; Not the Government. Protect Yourself![This message has been edited by RugerNiner (edited 02-17-2002).]

offeror

When I was in the fourth grade back in the 50s my teacher confiscated the little Luger cap gun I had with me, and wore it in her belt the rest of the day. Without making a stink, she made a point that even a cap gun wasn't okay back then. Now that kids are bringing real guns to school more and more often, I think a zero tolerance is, if not a happy thing, at least understandable. What if some bully wants to one-up my kid by following up his harmless talk by bringing the real thing in a day later, sneering and brandishing? Schools have time and again been ruled zones where pure democracy is not in effect, because kids are not adults and are rightfully under supervision, who have a responsibility to the community to keep all kids safe. Since the behavior of one may have reverberations and consequences, I'd say anywhere short of college falls short of the test for a freedom zone. If you don't want your kids supervised, better not send them to public school. Otherwise, there are policies to contend with for the good of all, which as Mr. Spock once pointed out, outweighs the good of the few, or the one.

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"The 2nd Amendment is about defense, not hunting. Long live the gun shows, and reasonable access to FFLs. Join the NRA -- I'm a Life Member."

nunn

A few years ago, one of the Economics teachers in the high school in the town where I work created a minor stir by teaching his class how to make a potato gun.I thought it was pretty funny.Then, one day the drug and bomb sniffing dog alerted on a truck on the parking lot. Kid was summoned to the truck and like a fool, he opened it up. Behind the seat was his dad's Remington 870, left there after a dove-hunting foray. School officials went ballistic, big newspaper coverage, wanted kid prosecuted. Trouble is, it was NOT illegal to have the gun on the parking lot. So they expelled him forever and he had to change schools.Major reason why my kids do not attend school in that district.

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Certified SIG pistol armorer/FFL Dealer/Full time Peace Officer, Moderator of the General Discussion Board on Gunbroker. Visit www.gunbroker.com, the premier gun auction site on the Net! Email davidnunn@texoma.net Jesus is Lord!

RugerNiner

offeror; are you saying both the student "with the harmless talk" (your words)and the "bully brandishing the real thing" (your words) are equally responsible? One is exercising his first amendment right and the other is committing an act of crime.

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Remember...Terrorist are attacking Civilians; Not the Government. Protect Yourself!

Bullzeye

My point is that constructively teaching a kid the difference between acceptable and not-acceptable is 10 times better than just refusing to allow the issue to be discussed at all.Schools should teach students that owning a gun is okay, and talking about it is a good thing. The more talking, the better.The real problems come when talking about something is forbidden.And I'm happy to say that most of my classmates have a pretty firm grip on the difference between looking at my Ruger catalog and bringing a gun to school to shoot people.Just a quick heads up for you puckered soccer moms out there: You are 27 times more likely to win the Lottery than you are to have your child killed in a school shooting.So maybe you should start writing checks before you go to the Million Mom March.

RugerNiner

I still disagree. The airports are a business like any other. Their are some businesses that don't want guns in their establishment and I respect that. When you go to the airport you know in advance that you are going to get searched, you are not giving up your rights you are consenting to the way they do business. Our rights are slipping but I feel that you are giving up on our rights totally. If you belong to the NRA or some other organization then you must still believe there is hope.

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Remember...Terrorist are attacking Civilians; Not the Government. Protect Yourself!

offeror

I believe there is plenty of hope. I also believe it is a bad idea for a kid to talk about guns to other kids at school. That is not the same thing as having a gun safety class or an Eddie Eagle program, which would be fine with me. I am not an NRA moderate. I am firmly behind gun freedoms for both sport and home defense. Your question makes me wonder how I wound up on this side of a discussion. I think that responsible gun handling extends to speech as well as gun manipulation. A kid may say nothing objectionable or he may speak with less care. Either way, in a school where a pocket knife can get a kid expelled, gun talk can't possibly go unnoticed if the other kids are of a mind to "tell an adult," which they are now encouraged, even trained, to do. At any rate, by the time faculty hears about "gun talk" they have no choice but to get to the bottom of it. Unless you live in an area where there's a school .22 shooting program or something, expect the faculty to freak, to some degree, about gun talk. Once a report is made, they have to eliminate the ominous possibilities. And, as I said, if you get very unlucky, you could conceivably have a worst case scenario where some other kid who is trying to show off might take this as his cue to bring a gun to show around since that's the cool topic of the week. I know this sounds alarmist, but that's the school mindset these days, and it's supported by most parents -- who aren't into guns themselves and don't want trouble in their school. What I am saying is that kids talking to other kids about shooting and guns is about as wise as going to that airport check-in and saying the word "gun" or "bomb" and expecting not to be taken aside and checked out. The First Amendment won't matter at that moment. You are going to get the expected grilling and strip search, and miss your plane, probably. You have the freedom to say gun, but they have the duty to eliminate you as a terrorist suspect if you do. It is easier, and wiser in a climate of concern about terrorism and Columbine-type incidents, to explain to your kids that because guns are SUPPOSED TO BE dangerous, it may scare people to talk about dangerous things at school where they may misunderstand. It might be better to re-direct the gun talk to after-school time with companions who are also into shooting.Schools have a responsibility to maintain rules for their kids and the First Amendment is not an absolute in an institution for underage dependents, particularly given that even us good NRA members are looking to avoid a repeat of Columbine. Who isn't? That autocratic tradition in public schools is why principals are often successful in shutting down newspapers by students that cover unpopular subject matter. They're not little democracies, nor are they supposed to be. What's a "hall pass" but "papers?" Just be happy they don't have paddles anymore. Besides, kids should not be saddled with carrying a torch for their parents' more mature views; kids lack the maturity to wage a legal battle and should not get tangled up in one. And that may be the unintended effect of a word in the wrong place to the wrong person. Let them be kids. Be proud of our heritage. Just don't encourage loose lips in inappropriate settings, in the current (justified) state of higher alert. It doesn't take anything away from my gun rights to cooperate with the enforcement of reasonable measures designed to protect all kids from emotionally disturbed people or terrorists or the misuse of firearms and other weapons. In fact I think it's more responsible to be realistic in a world where more kids seem to be hurting themselves or others with weapons.

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"The 2nd Amendment is about defense, not hunting. Long live the gun shows, and reasonable access to FFLs. Join the NRA -- I'm a Life Member."

booger

Compare it to talking about getting laid at work. You can jabber all you want to about whatever Amendment you want, but you better keep your yap shut about certain things at certain places, or you (or your kid) will get punted.This would appear to be a new reality? I don't like it either.

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Them ducks is wary.

RugerNiner

This is more like what I"ve been saying all along. "It is easier, and wiser in a climate of concern about terrorism and Columbine-type incidents, to explain to your kids that because guns are SUPPOSED TO BE dangerous, it may scare people to talk about dangerous things at school where they may misunderstand. It might be better to re-direct the gun talk to after-school time with companions who are also into shooting."

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Remember...Terrorist are attacking Civilians; Not the Government. Protect Yourself!

idsman75

First of all school, like home, is not a democracy. I don't like the idea of keeping a kid from talking about guns at school but I also know that it is not wise for the kid to fight it. That's a parent's job. You play the game and check all the right boxes (like it or not) and you graduate so that you can further your own future and gain positions from which you can wage that battle. It is not worth expulsion and self-martyrdom. Any police involvement on school grounds (no matter what the incident) is equivalent to a felony conviction for the purpose of enlistment eligibility. If I have children one day, I'll tell them to play the game and use what they have learned in order to build their personal arsenals so that you can defeat the gun crowd on their own grounds one day. A record (criminal or not) will just ruin your credibility. In the eyes of the public, perception equals reality no matter what your age is. I couldn't stand the liberal BS that went on in high school (class of '93) and I was vocal but I also played the game and kept my nose clean. I went to a couple of different colleges and used my roommate (who was the newspaper editor) to send lead downrange via OpEd pieces that I still have today.I like to compare the liberal school environment to a crucible. It is an environment in which the liberals and the conservatives separate from eachother very quickly and true colors show. It forces you to pick your sides. Those of similar political inclinations will be easy to pick out and unite. It was in this type of environment that, at the age of 20, I saw the light when it came to guns. I was anti-handgun to the core. I met a gentleman that educated me and I have him to thank for opening me up to a new passion. Thank goodness it happened before my 21st birthday. It's never to early to own your first pistol

nunn

Once upon a time, I was looking through my mom's or dad's high school yearbook. There in the back with the French Club and the Debate Team, were the ROTC posing with rifles, and the school rifle team, posing with rifles.That was 1949. A more civilized age.

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Certified SIG pistol armorer/FFL Dealer/Full time Peace Officer, Moderator of the General Discussion Board on Gunbroker. Visit www.gunbroker.com, the premier gun auction site on the Net! Email davidnunn@texoma.net Jesus is Lord!

RugerNiner

SaxonPig;Are you telling me that the pilots,stewardess,baggage handlers and ticket operators get a pay check that says U.S.GOVERNMENT on it?

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Remember...Terrorist are attacking Civilians; Not the Government. Protect Yourself!

RugerNiner

Saxonpig;Your statement was: "By the way, they are not private businesses. They are government operated."You mean government owned, not operated.I think that makes a difference in the subject.

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Remember...Terrorist are attacking Civilians; Not the Government. Protect Yourself!

Iconoclast

My youngest has had numerous run-ins w/ the PC administration of his school over his behavior. One @#$%^&* history teacher started to bad mouth the Second Amendment & sent him to the office after my boy told him, diplomatically, that he was full of s*** and biased. Principal called me & I asked him if he wanted to switch my son's schedule or come visit me in court. The most recent time was when, in a private conversation, he referred to a person not present as a b***ch & was overheard by another tight butt teacher. Two day suspension for 'sexual harassment.' I let that one go because he shouldn't have been swearing in school (as though far worse is not said every day), but we both got great satisfaction in my telling the Vice Principal her eyes should be brown. Teachers have it hard, but some, like the bad cops who were discussed recently, get on a power trip and make it harder for others. I agree you have to play the game, for a while. I can't wait until he graduates so I can really pop off to these jerks.

RugerNiner

Iconoclast;I like your attitude. I'm the same way.

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Remember...Terrorist are attacking Civilians; Not the Government. Protect Yourself!

UNIVERSITY50

this one also fits with nunns posting on idiots. my 9 yr old was sent to the office and my wife was called by the school admin. due to him making a statement about bulletproof vest. he had made the comment at 8:30am that i had a old bulletproof vest that had been shot during testing and training. then went on to say that i let him shoot a sheridan pellet gun in the basement into a bullet trap. when asked about the bullet trap he explained how it works, and how i use it to test fire guns that have been repaired. buy lunch time the school admin. was calling and wanting to know why we let my son shoot me while wearing my bulletproof vest with guns i have fixed!! she was very concerned that we would let him test these handguns on me,"what if he misses the vest, this child would have to live with that the rest of his life!" and that she was going to call child services on us, we would have a lot of explaining to do, and be lucky if we do not end up in court. after my wife stopped laughing, she told the school admin. that she really felt she should call me and advise me of this because she has told me 100 time not to let the kid shoot me like that, but after he has a few beers it's hard to get the gun off of him. these are the people we have teaching our kids!!!! [This message has been edited by UNIVERSITY50 (edited 02-19-2002).]

Bullzeye

I'd have to say that, with some exceptions, the teachers of today are THE most biased, THE most ignorant, and THE most poorly trained teachers that have ever existed.Even one-room schoolteachers had contact with the community and a sense of traditional morality, even though they didnt have a bookshelf full of people's opinions on how to teach someone else's kids.My hat is off to anyone who has the time or accomodations to home-school their children. Bravo.

beachmaster73

nunn....I invite you to look at the yearbook for the high school in which I teach. There are some great pictures in it of my air rifle team shooting in matches in the cafeteria as well as pictures of the entire team on the 600 yard line with M1's, M1A's and a couple AR-15's those year books are dated 1999, 2000, and 2001!While I work for a very enlightened school district(especially in regard to Second Amendment rights) I don't think you can pooh pooh all that high schools have to do in this post Columbine era. Remember that the high schools are charged with the safety of your children. And while you and your family may practice responsible gun ownership...it ain't that way in every family. And while you and your family may be fairly psychologically stable....it ain't that way in every family. Yet the high school is tasked with ensuring one standard of protection for all the children in the school. Kind of hard to do until you've tried it. Yes most people in the education field tend to be more liberal than most gunowners; but taking the "You'll have to pry this gun from my cold dead fingers" approach with the administration can cause precisely the wrong reaction. At another school nearby, which doesn't have anywhere near the pro gun attitude that my school has, the Senior ROTC Instructor instituted a turkey shoot in the school with air rifles that pitted teachers against students and administraters with the winners winning Thanksgiving turkeys. The end result was a lot of fun by everyone as well as a little more understanding about guns by the staff of the school.Most of you will admit that there had to be one student nut-case in your school when you were in high school that really never should have been allowed around guns for any reason. Think about if his dad had had guns easily available in the house to that kid and.........you had beaten him up on the playground yesterday. At the high school level we have to deal with those issues daily. Beach