Arafat

Big Sky Redneck

Nobody gonna post the story or discuss his little problem he's got right now?

scott5792

Simple. He should have taken the agreement. Getting exactly what he asked for now.Neither he nor the arabs want peace .

royc38

Can't say I would give odds that Arafat will see the Fourth of July this year.

Big Sky Redneck

I thought after another thread we had a couple of weeks ago that this would be headlines here since he got himself into that pile of poo poo.

Lowrider

"...neither he nor the Arabs want peace."Add the Israelis to that list. While they claim to only be retaliating for the attacks on their citizens, and claim they're only trying to stop the terrorism, they won't stop 'till they have all the West Bank real estate. This is all part of their long-range State expansion.Sharon is as much a war criminal as Milosevich. (sp?)

---

Lord Lowrider the LoquaciousMember:Secret Select Society of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets She was only a fisherman's daughter,But when she saw my rod she reeled.

RugerNiner

Did anybody see the guns they recovered at the compound? What I saw was mostly Shotguns. When seeing pictures of the Middle East I guess I just got used to seeing AK47's.

---

Remember...Terrorist are attacking Civilians; Not the Government. Protect Yourself!

scott5792

I feel the israelies had a very good offer on the table.Yet Arafat said no.None of the arabs will be happy until israel is destroyed. No matter what is offered to arafat and the arab states by israel, is ever enough.sooner or later they will have to live together. just a matter of how many will die in the process.America would have gone into the palistinian areas long before now.Had they been doing the bombings here.Well,I believe they would anyway

Big Sky Redneck

One thing I'm curious of is why they don't kill him. I havent followed this too much so I don't know the politics behind the decisions made since Friday. Somebody put it into simple terms why keeping Arafat alive is important. I would think Arafat needs put out of action and here is the chance to do it.

scott5792

They don't know who would replace him.Something about the known evil over the unknown. Make sence?Scot

Big Sky Redneck

Kinda like the unofficial reason that Saddam is still alive and well?

scott5792

Exactly. We're good at that it seems. Scott

scott5792

Didn't we do the same thing to the montanyards(sp)? just as in iraq and afghanistan we supply them with arms , only to have them turn on us ..

gruntled

I feel the Saudis have a very good offer on the table.Yet Sharon said no.None of the Israelis will be happy until Palistine is destroyed. No matter what is offered to Sharon and Israel by the Arab States it is ever enough.Sooner or later they will have to live together. Just a matter of how many will die in the process.America should have stopped paying for the Israeli atrosities long before now. Had they been doing the murders here we would.Well,I believe they would anyway

Jungle Jim

Telling the Israelis not to retaliate to the Palestinians is like telling the US not to retaliate over 911. The Palestinians are terrorists, and always have been. Arafat is their Chief terrorist.I hope he isn't killed, and turned into a martyr. My guess is that he will be removed from office, and put into prison.(Remember Noreiga?)

---

"De Oppresso Liber"

badboybob

Those people have been murdering each other since recorded history. They won't stop because of any "peace" agreement since the arabs don't want peace. Turn the Israelies loose, get all the arabs out, put a BIG fence around Israel and shoot anyone trying to get in. This idiocy on the part of the arabs has gone far enough.

---

PC=BS

Patrick Odle

Ask yourself this question, who would you rather turn your back on, Israeli or Arab. FACT; No dead Arab can carry out a suicide bombing. the only ones period that lack of life prevents.

gruntled

I can hardly believe such sick, mindless bloodlust. Happy Easter.

mudge

Some discussion was going on the other day about "offing" Arafat. One of the theories put forth was that one of the militant Arab groups might do it and blame the Israeli's. Everybody would believe it and it would launch another series of attacks and counter-attacks. There needs to be some humongous, military "*-kickin'" by the Israeli's. A piece of paper ain't gonna do it!I also seem to remember some of these Israeli big shots being the terrorist leaders against the Brits about 50 sumpin' years ago. Now they're all hissy about people doing it to them. This is going to sound anti-semitic as hell, but.....the Jews have been being "persecuted" for a few thousand years. What is it about them that seems to piss people off?Mudge the observant

---

I can't come to work today. The voices said, STAY HOME AND CLEAN THE GUNS!

offeror

Unfortunately for Arafat, he didn't catch on quick enough that terrorism has essentially been outlawed, at least for a while. The news channels keep interviewing Palestinians on the street, who are saying suicide bombings go on because "we have no army -- this is the only method we have." Welp, the only method they have has suddenly become something the larger portion of the world wants to stamp out as heinous criminal activity. Overnight, Arafat's M.O. became an anachronism. They've surrounded him with an army, and it was an awkward but telling moment when Christianne Amanpour asked him on the phone, "are you ready to publicly renounce terrorism and stop the suicide bombings now?" Arafat got mad and sounded almost hysterical as he tried to scold her for asking such a question while he was under fire, but it's really the only point of the matter now. True, it leaves the Palestinians with no war cards to play. It only leaves them with a single tool -- asking for global help to build a nation with secure borders called Palestine through negotiations. I believe it is sinking in to some Palestinians, slowly, that suicide bombing will no longer matter politically. Each new bomb will only make them seem more criminal and lose them more sympathy. Soon, trials of the bomber's conspirators will begin happening and the criminalization of what they used to call freedom fighting will become complete. It will only get worse for the Palestinians if and when Netanyahu gets the Prime Minister's office back in a few months. If they don't like Sharon, they're going to love to hate Netanyahu. And he may actually have Arafat shot. It is interesting that the winning strategy, the most effective strategy for the Palestinians might turn out to be peace negotiations after all, attended and approved by the major powers in and out of the region. I think that probably the trouble all along has been that the Palestinians really DID secretly hold out hope that, as Arafat said in Arabic yesterday, "some day our flag will fly over the churches, mosques and synagogues of Jerusalem." That statement is out of touch with reality. The Palestinians are to some degree "occupied," certainly, but they are a lot less occupied than they think they are. And occupation by a standing army is not terrorism by any definition we're becoming familiar with. This all has to end with a compromise over the disputed real estate. Israel may be right when it asserts that the '67 borders, with a 10-mile-wide strip, are too narrow to defend properly. On the other hand, they have offered land compromises, and the Saudi summit produced concepts all of which could see this business settled. The Israelis have put aside some of their past restraint and have decided to control Arafat with the power available to them, probably from now until peace comes -- and his image has already changed -- he now looks fairly small and ineffective. This may be the dose of reality that redefines in everyone's mind what real peace is going to look like. But again, terrorists are going to find that they are effectively criminalized from now on, and are not viewed as heros by the world, only by their own small minority of like thinkers. They will be killed, arrested, tried, sentenced, imprisoned -- not like guerilla fighters, but like murderers. This is the sea change that 9/11 has wrought and it has infected many parts of the world already. No longer is terrorism going to be given grudging respect as a political necessity. It is going to be demoted in importance to simple criminality and its perpetrators will become pariahs who will not accomplish grand ends like nation-building. Since the USA gets a cold and the whole world coughs, and because we tend to insist on equal justice, it will become more and more difficult for terrorists to earn exceptions to this criminalization for any cause, even regional or local. I think, in short, that the world, to its credit, has finally figured out that terrorism should be eradicated as a means to an end. Terrorists have accomplished something that nothing else has been able to since WWII -- it has made the tactical use of "surgical" nuclear weapons thinkable. You have to go pretty far to become less well liked than a nuke. Enough rambling for one session. Arafat, give up the terror card. Announce it publicly and unequivocally. You may get shot by your own people like Begin did, but for once, you'll be right and history will prove it, just as it did with Begin.

---

"The 2nd Amendment is about security, not hunting. Long live the gun shows, and reasonable access to FFLs. Join the NRA -- I'm a Life Member."

HAIRY

Has anyone given any thought that once Israel has removed all of the arabs from the land, that the Christians are next? After all, what valid claim does a Christian have to the sacred city?

scott5792

Religion is the reason for all this insanity. Like the kristians are any better than these savages.the kristians used terrorism against the indians here when we took over.(smallpox blankets)and the list goes on forever ,just like the arabs and the jews.I don't trust anyone who puts all of their energy into religion. Begs for the kind of nuttyness we have today.Don't make me call you a witch

robsguns

I really dont care about all of this, I'll just take the stance our leaders have, step back and wonder..... how long before they are ALL dead, so we will finally have control of all that oil over there, which is the ONLY reason why we are involved in this thing in the first place.

---

SSgt Ryan E. Roberts, USMC

cowdoc

i think we should stand back and let them ALL have it out. fight till the last one standing wins then we go deal out some woop * and take control of the whole area and have some peace for a change. jmo doc

---

I dont give my guns without somebody getting hurt!

idsman75

scott5792--You are so out of line that it's not even funny. First of all, the atrocities committed against the Indians were done by a bunch of arrogant SOB's that just happened to be "kristians". They hardly represented Christianity as a whole. Secondly, the Indians were just as savage towards one another long before the "kristians" arrived. For example, the Sioux nation in my area of the country were once located north of what is now the U.S./Canadian border. They came down and decimated the Crow Nation and took their land from them. We may have given them small-pox but they gave us tobacco. Who is dying in larger numbers from what they received from the other party? Last time I checked, small-pox is no longer an epidemic. Tobacco may be a choice but so is the alcohol for which they place the blame on the "white man" even today. Atrocities committed in the name of religion would have been committed anyway regardless of whether the purpetrator of those atrocities had been raised muslim/jewish/hindu or whatever. These people are idiots walking around doing what they would have done regardless of their religion but using their religion as an excuse or as a justification. They know that their actions are not justifiable so they are using their religion to add some sort of credibility to those actions. It's just an excuse to murder. God forbit we encounter another Mother Theresa who will direct so much energy towards healing the sick and caring for the poor. That would be such an aweful thing wouldn't it.You may be a cherry here on this board and we may not all agree about religion. However, most of us that come here don't stoop to demeaning someone else for their choice of who they call "God". [This message has been edited by idsman75 (edited 04-01-2002).]

scott5792

Was not religion bashing. Was pointing out the simularities.And amazingly even the indians were exactly the same.Sorry ,I really wasn't slamming your religion.I compare the israel and palistinians only because they are in the same cetury that the indian smallpox incident happened.you know 10th cetury VS 21st century.Does that make sence?Not a great orator. yeah, I'm a cherry LMAO.

scott5792

Still doesn't look right to me.we are looking at a time capsule. I don't know LMAO. I hate thatScott

stanman

Arafat and the Palestinians have no desire for peace and the rest of the Arab nations have no love for the Palestinians. The Arabs want to use the Palestinian issue to justify their hatred of the Israelis. I find it interesting that 80% of Jordanians are of so-called Palestinian descent, yet neither Jordan or any other Arab country is offering the Palestinians a homeland! The Arab world can't seem to get over the fact that in 1967 three Arab contries thought they could gang up on the Israelis and drive the infidels into the sea. Israel promptly kicked everybody's *...... in six short days!!Now the Arabs want Israel to give back the land that they lost as a result of their bungled action. Sort of like "Oh gee, we didn't think it would end like this,How about you guys just give back the land we gambled and lost and we'll just pretend the whole thing never happened,,,, OK??The Israelis may want to anhilate the Palestinians, but so would we if this was happening on our soil. If we had turned the Israelis loose in 67', Sept. 11th would never have happened!And can we puleeese get over the Indian thing? The tribes practiced genocide on each other for hundreds of years before the last wave of white settlers arrived. Ever hear of the Chimacum Indians?? No, probably not, because they were exterminated by several other Puget Sound area tribes in a joint effort. All was not peace and love among the Indians as the liberal historians would have us believe. And while it may be off the subject, let's not forget that the oldest human remains found on this continent are those of a white European, evidence would suggest that Europeans were the real "Native Americans".Israel may not be the innocent victims that they would like us to believe they are, but given a choice of casting my lot with the Israelis or the Palestinians?? Well just let me say that I hope my tax dollars bought the bullet that blows Arafat's brains out!!

timberbeast

Religion has no more to do with violence than guns do. INDIVIDUALS make choices. From those choices come consequences.

gruntled

stanman: Please read the history of the 1967 war. Israel launched a Pearl Harbor like attack on Egypt & then attacked Syria after the Syrians had already accepted the U.N. request for them to stay out of the war.

beachmaster73

X-Rings for Idsman and gruntled!!! Maggies drawers waving furiously at Stanman! Beach

stanman

Pearl harbor like attack???LMAOAfter Egypt, Syria and Jordan had massed troops, tanks and aircraft on Israel's borders and blockaded Israeli shipping???How do you launch a Pearl Harbor like attack under those conditions???The Arabs strutted in to start a war but forgot to bring their guts!!!Egyptian president Abdul Nasser had ordered the U N Peacekeeping forces out of the "Protection Zone" ...... and like the UN does, THEY LEFT!!I can't imagine why Israel would have no faith in Syria's promises to that same UN!Beach,I got a good look up Maggie's drawers,,,,,, and I'm sure the two of you are very happy!

timberbeast

You can only launch a "Pearl Harbor-like attack" if your president has the ships in harbor grouped together as a perfect target, has sent the carriers off to points far, and knows of it in advance and allows it to happen, in order to kill off the excess workforce on foreign battlefields.Rot where you belong, FDR.See "The Final Secret of Pearl Harbor" by Rear Admiral Robert A. Theobald, with corroborating forewords by Fleet Admiral Husband E. Kimmel and Fleet Admiral William F. Halsey.(Devin-Adair Publishing)

gunpaq

If you put a scarf on the head of my neighbors goat he looks just like Arafat.Also, if you put a cowboy hat on Arafat, he looks just like Willie Nelson.

---

Pack slow, fall stable, pull high, hit dead center.[This message has been edited by gunpaq (edited 04-01-2002).]

beachmaster73

Stanman....Your incredible ignorance of history and politics is exceeded only by your deplorable ignorance of shooting terms. ROFLMAO at our new resident revisionist. Beach P.S. Stanman if your knowledge of the construction industry mirrors your knowledge of shooting I'd hate to have you build a house for anyone I know. Beach

barto

man, you got one uuugleee damn goat! barto

---

the hard stuff we do right away - the impossible takes a little longer

beachmaster73

X-Ring barto! Maybe we should give Arafat an old "hogleg" and Sharon an old "hogleg" and have them meet in the street out side the compound for an old fashioned showdown....last man standing gets to put his ideas into play. Beach

offeror

HAIRY --I was watching some news interviews on TV the other day, and guess what? Christians are already definitely treated as second class citizens in Israel. Of course, that never happens to U.S. Christians, say, in the film industry.... ;>(

badboybob

I have always wondered, when I see a picture of that ugly sob, which end of him am I seeing.

---

PC=BS

Patrick Odle

badboybobIn my opinion both ends are equal in inteligence as he has repeatedly demonstratedhe has nothing short of s%$# for brain. I have never seen the other end but can't immagine it looking as bad as the one he has the diaper around.

Bullzeye

The Arab militants (note, thats not all Arabs) simply have no morals or scruples as the rest of the civilized world defines them.They tried a massive coordinated invasion, and they got their * summarily handed to them.Civilized people have limits. They have a point at which they will go no further. The United States could have plastered Baghdad and the desert of Iraq with nukes until the whole country was a giant glowing blue ice-rink, but we didnt. It would have saved a lot of trouble, and many American lives, but we didnt do it. Because we are civilized, and we have limits.But now, instead of conceding that they arent going to win through military means, the Arab militants will simply play up the ante and attack civilians with suicide bombings.They claim they're just using that method because they have no other recourse.Tell me, do you think Hamas or Hezbollah would hestitate for a tenth of a second to detonate a nuke in the middle of Jerusalem if they had the chance?How about release nerve gas and kill a million innocent Israelis?They wouldnt blink an eye and you know it.If they had the strength to invade Israel again, they would. And the resulting slaughter would make Nanking look like a knitting circle.Dont fool yourself. This is not about having no recourse. This is not about their last resort. This is plain and simple about killing as many Israelis as possible to quench both their own personal lust for Zionist blood, and their political lust for power.And with Iran as their new permanent arms dealer, I'd watch the situation very carefully. All it would take is 50 pounds of C4 wrapped around a barrel of Iran's worthless uranium waste, detonated in the middle of Jerusalem, and we'll all have a ringside seat for World War III.

Gordian Blade

Hey, Bullzeye, that's pretty good for a punk kid.