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It started already ... read and relate to other events

Judge DreadJudge Dread Member Posts: 2,372 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited October 2001 in General Discussion
All M-1 Garands Must Be Destroyed - Government OrdersFrom Illinois State Rifle AssociationPosted By S. Jackson10-11-1This week, the U.S. Senate passed S. 1438, the Department of Defense (DoD) annual authorization bill, which contains a provision that is of grave concern to hunters and sport shooters. Section 1062 of this bill provides the Secretary of Defense with the authority to require "demilitarization" of any "significant military equipment" that has ever been owned by the DoD. This would include all firearms (such as the venerable M1, M1 Carbine, and Model 1911, as well as all Civilian Marksmanship Program rifles, even "sporterized" surplus bolt-action Springfields!); firearm parts such as barrels, bolts, triggers, firing pins, sights, etc.; ammunition and ammunition components; and firearm accessories such as cleaning rods, oilers, and even cleaning brushes. "Demilitarization" is the term for rendering such items permanently inoperable, and Sec. 1062 allows for this action to be carried out either by the owner or a third party, with the owner paying the cost, or by the DoD. However, if the DoD determines it should perform the demilitarization, it can also determine that the cost of returning the demilled item is prohibitive, then simply keep the item, and reimburse the owner only for the fair market scrap value of the item. Furthermore, this new authority would require private citizens to determine for themselves if an item they own is subject to demilitarization, and face criminal penalties for non-compliance. The DoD would be under no obligation to notify law-abiding citizens that items they have lawfully owned for years, and perhaps that their families have owned for generations, are suddenly subject to forced demilitarization. This becomes extremely significant when one considers that U.S. military surplus has been "regularly and legally" bought, sold, and traded for centuries. Countless Americans own items that could be subject to Sec. 1062. It is likely millions of law-abiding Americans would be affected, and could unknowingly become criminals overnight without having done anything or having ever been informed. The DoD already has the authority and responsibility to demilitarize any item it sells as surplus, so there is absolutely no reason to seek new authority to confiscate and destroy lawfully sold and lawfully owned items that are now the property of private citizens. Be sure to contact your U.S. Senators at (202) 224-3121, and your U.S. Representative at (202) 225-3121, and urge them to strike Sec. 1062 from S. 1438, the "National Defense Authorization Act for FY 2002." the "National Defense Authorization Act for FY 2002." Act Today - Or Lose Your Heritage This notification brought to you as a courtesy to the gun-owning community by the Illinois State Rifle Association.
I judge Thee!, Not for what you are , but for what you say !

Comments

  • alledanalledan Member Posts: 19,541
    edited November -1
    I have a garand and it don't think I will allow it to be demilled!I've got their demill right here!
  • njretcopnjretcop Member Posts: 7,975
    edited November -1
    I also own a Garand, and a 1911 .45 pistol. I will never give them up and hope that all like minded Americans will stand together on this issue.
    Guns don't kill people, it's the bullets, stupidI am the NRA, the KABA, NJ Area Rep for the 2ampd, and the AARP :(njretcop@copmail.com
  • ironsitesironsites Member Posts: 97 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have and always will consider any law which is against the constitution, null and void and those who present and pass such laws- criminals against their oath to protect the constitution. THEY WILL NOT GET MINE! When are we going to protest in numbers (gigantic numbers) and put a final stop to this nonsense! We must assemble- we need G.O.A., N.R.A. And state associations to band together and begin a national gun rights day, to bring us all together and protest. I will E maill them and suggest this- for they have the power we need to get it going. All of you E mail them too.
  • badboybobbadboybob Member Posts: 1,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Ain't gettin mine neither.
  • .250Savage.250Savage Member Posts: 812 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    No sir, no how, no way. I would hate like hell to get involved in a revolution at a pivotal moment in history like this, but I WILL NOT! give them up. Not until Osama bin * gives up his.
    I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.--Voltare
  • Free N TXFree N TX Member Posts: 165 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I will demill my firearms when they hold the Winter Olympics in Hell...NOT!!! I will never deface a fine piece of equipment. It would be like destroying any of my other tools. I bought it, it is mine, therefore I decide what to do with it.
  • mudgemudge Member Posts: 4,225 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    The gun-grabbers REALLLLY don't want to go there. Most of you will remember the flag that one town in Texas flew during their fight for independence that had the cannon on it and the words "Come and take it".WELL.........Mudge
    I can't come to work today. The voices said, STAY HOME AND CLEAN THE GUNS!
  • Mark IIMark II Member Posts: 247 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    When they come asking for mine, I'm pretty sure my reply will be "what guns?"
    "To meet with ill fortune is to meet with good fortune. To meet with submission is to meet an enemy."
  • mudgemudge Member Posts: 4,225 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    "Gee, all my guns fell in the lake when the boat capsized."Mudge
    I can't come to work today. The voices said, STAY HOME AND CLEAN THE GUNS!
  • opentopopentop Member Posts: 143 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    More complete BS mis-information! Section 1062 of S.1438 is the "SEC. 1062. AUTHORITY TO ENSURE DEMILITARIZATION OF SIGNIFICANT MILITARY EQUIPMENT FORMERLY OWNED BY THE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE". This was copied right out of the U.S Senate's website freedom of information act section on Senate legislation. NO WHERE IN IT does in mention anyone coming to get your old Garand or M1 Carbine or anything else that was already legally transferred to the civilian market! Here's the entire section. Read it and stop spreading * misinformation!SEC. 1062. AUTHORITY TO ENSURE DEMILITARIZATION OF SIGNIFICANT MILITARY EQUIPMENT FORMERLY OWNED BY THE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE.(a) PROHIBITION- It is unlawful for any person to possess significant military equipment formerly owned by the Department of Defense unless--(1) the military equipment has been demilitarized in accordance with standards prescribed by the Secretary of Defense;(2) the person is in possession of the military equipment for the purpose of demilitarizing the equipment pursuant to a Federal Government contract; or(3) the person is specifically authorized by law or regulation to possess the military equipment.(b) REFERRAL TO ATTORNEY GENERAL- The Secretary of Defense shall notify the Attorney General of any potential violation of subsection (a) of which the Secretary becomes aware.(c) AUTHORITY TO REQUIRE DEMILITARIZATION- (1) The Attorney General may require any person who, in violation of subsection (a), is in possession of significant military equipment formerly owned by the Department of Defense--(A) to demilitarize the equipment;(B) to have the equipment demilitarized by a third party; or(C) to return the equipment to the Federal Government for demilitarization.(2) When the demilitarization of significant military equipment is carried out pursuant to subparagraph (A) or (B) of paragraph (1), an officer or employee of the United States designated by the Attorney General shall have the right to confirm, by inspection or other means authorized by the Attorney General, that the equipment has been demilitarized.(3) If significant military equipment is not demilitarized or returned to the Federal Government for demilitarization as required under paragraph (1) within a reasonable period after the Attorney General notifies the person in possession of the equipment of the requirement to do so, the Attorney General may request that a court of the United States issue a warrant authorizing the seizure of the military equipment in the same manner as is provided for a search warrant. If the court determines that there is probable cause to believe that the person is in possession of significant military equipment in violation of subsection (a), the court shall issue a warrant authorizing the seizure of such equipment.(d) DEMILITARIZATION OF EQUIPMENT- (1) The Attorney General shall transfer any military equipment returned to the Federal Government or seized pursuant to subsection (c) to the Department of Defense for demilitarization.(2) If the person in possession of significant military equipment obtained the equipment in accordance with any other provision of law, the Secretary of Defense shall bear all costs of transportation and demilitarization of the equipment and shall either--(A) return the equipment to the person upon completion of the demilitarization; or(B) reimburse the person for the cost incurred by that person to acquire the equipment if the Secretary determines that the cost to demilitarize and return the property to the person would be prohibitive.(e) ESTABLISHMENT OF DEMILITARIZATION STANDARDS- (1) The Secretary of Defense shall prescribe regulations regarding the demilitarization of military equipment.(2) The regulations shall be designed to ensure that--(A) the equipment, after demilitarization, does not constitute a significant risk to public safety and does not have--(i) a significant capability for use as a weapon; or(ii) a uniquely military capability; and(B) any person from whom private property is taken for public use under this section receives just compensation for the taking of the property.(3) The regulations shall, at a minimum, define--(A) the classes of significant military equipment requiring demilitarization before disposal; and(B) what constitutes demilitarization for each class of significant military equipment.(f) DEFINITION OF SIGNIFICANT MILITARY EQUIPMENT- In this section, the term `significant military equipment' means equipment that has a capability described in clause (i) or (ii) of subsection (e)(2) and--(1) is a defense article listed on the United States Munitions List maintained under section 38 of the Arms Export Control Act (22 U.S.C. 2778) that is designated on that list as significant military equipment; or(2) is designated by the Secretary of Defense under the regulations prescribed under subsection (e) as being equipment that it is necessary in the interest of public safety to demilitarize before disposal by the United States.
  • Diesel DummyDiesel Dummy Member Posts: 193 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    opentop - Thanks! I'd heard this but hadn't had time to research it. I understood "significant military equipment" to represent armor, artillery etc.
  • opentopopentop Member Posts: 143 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Exactly, and no where in the bill does it say anything about any kind of "retroactive" demilitarization. It is simply the demilitarization of any "significant" military equipment that is to be liquidated by the military, not stuff that was already legally sold on the civilian market.
  • opentopopentop Member Posts: 143 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Here's more evidence that I am right: Part 121.1 of the United States Munitions list states:in section (b) Significant military equipment. Where an asterisk (*) precedes certain defense articles in the following list. The asterisk means that the article is deemed to be "significant military equipment" to the extent specified in 120.19 . The asterisk is placed as a convenience to help identify such articles.In category I-Firearms, section (a) has an asterisk in front of:"Non-automatic, semi-automatic and fully automatic firearms to caliber 50 inclusive and parts for such firearms." But, as referred to above to section 120.19 "to the extent specified", section 120.19 states:"Reexport or retransfer means the transfer of defense articles or defense services to an end use, end user or destination NOT PREVIOUSLY AUTHORIZED"Since the legal sale of old M-1s, etc., was PREVIOUSLY AUTHORIZED, they do not fall under the category of "significant military equipment", requiring "demilitarization". This whole paranoia about the whole demilitarization part of the defense bill, is just that, paranoia. The government will not be coming after any M-1s or M1911s that were legally sold in previous years. They have neither the time nor the resources.
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