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VA Pre-emtion in Action (VCDL)
smokinggun
Member Posts: 590 ✭✭✭✭
I just borrowed this from another VCDL member on another forum so it's not mine. However, I am one of the original "Seven"
Effectiveness of your local gun lobby (small CCW/open carry victory in Va tonight)
Don't think your local progun lobby can be as effective as the NRA? Read this letter I just received from my friend Dennis O'Connor, Board Member & Head Gun Show Coordinator for the Virginia Citizens Defense League. As any of us would do, Dennis threw his * on the line for us tonite, and we certainly appreciate everything he's doing for us:
quote:
The following is an account of last night's events. Yea, I'm still stirring up the pot.
Dennis
Original Message
From: Dennis O'Connor
To: Philip Van Cleave
Sent: 7/23/2002 6:41:15 PM
Subject: "Then what are you?
On May 28th, seven VCDL members converged on Richmond City Hall to apprise the city council that the gun ban signs in city parks were illegal and had to come down. Those of us who were armed showed our permits to the deputies manning metal detectors at either door and were waved through without incident. However, ten minutes later I alone was inexplicably called out by a deputy and informed that no firearms were permitted at the council meeting. After unsuccessfully challenging the deputy, I left the building.
VCDL President Philip Van Cleave, who was already scheduled to speak at that meeting, took the opportunity to lambaste the council for their violation of my civil rights, and over the next several weeks spoke with the Richmond Sheriff's office on behalf of VCDL to demand satisfaction.. An internal affairs inquiry ensued, and we were led to believe that Richmond's Deputy Sheriffs were apprised of citizens' rights to bear arms, and the situation had been resolved.
On Monday, July 22, I drove up to Richmond to attend the City Council Meeting for the purpose of testing Richmond's compliance with state law regarding the rights of gun owners.
As I pulled into the parking lot opposite City Hall, the thought occurred to me that since I had driven all this way to put them to the test, I might as well "push the envelope" and carry open. So I walked into the lobby with a .45 semi-auto in my Fobus holster in plain view on my right hip. As I signed in at the desk, Deputy Sheriff M stood up and asked "What's that?" while pointing to my hip.
"My firearm" I replied.
"What are you doing with it here?"
"I always carry it."
"Are you RPD (Richmond Police)?"
"No."
"You can't go into the council meeting with that!"
"Oh, really? Is there an ordinance against it?"
"Yes."
"I'd like to see it."
"I don't have it here. They probably have one upstairs."
"I would be interested in getting a copy of it, since if one exists it is clearly in violation of state law, especially in light of the preemption bill signed by the Governor that was implemented July 1st."
He stared at me a moment, taking it all in.
"Have you been to council meetings before?" he asked.
"Yes."
"With that?" (pointing to my gun)
"The last time I was here I carried concealed" (neglecting to tell him I was evicted for it).
At this, he ignored me for a couple minutes, overseeing others signing in, glancing back at me occasionally and probably hoping I would go away. He seemed confused as to what to do.
"I'd like to see the ordinance" I reminded him.
"You're a detective!" he announced hopefully, looking for an easy out.
"No" I said.
Exasperated now, and with raised voice he asked "Then what are you?"
Smiling, I answered "a citizen."
After a pause to mull this over, Deputy M said "Show me your handgun permit."
"You mean in case I ever decide to conceal it? As you can see, this is not concealed. I'm carrying open. No permit is required." (I had a concealed carry permit in my wallet, but I refused to let that be my ticket in, as it would set a bad precedent for citizens without permits who legally carry open).
He stood there looking at me, and after another pause, demanded "show me some ID."
When I complied, he compared my ID to my signature where I had signed in, as if I would have signed in under an alias. Maybe he just needed to feel as though he was in better control of the situation than he really was.
"OK, come with me" he said with resignation. We took the elevator to the 2nd floor, and rounded the corner to where Deputy D was manning the metal detector outside the council chambers. Deputy D was the one who had evicted me for concealed carry two months before, and we immediately recognized each other.
"Ohhh, I know him," sighed Deputy D with a roll of his eyes when he saw me coming. I gave him a cheerful hello, which he didn't return. "I know him," he said again to Deputy M.
It was clear that Deputy D had been counseled concerning the right of citizens to bear arms since our last interaction, but apparently he was only advised to ask for a concealed carry permit to allow access, which he now did.
At this, Deputy M and I now both chimed in together: "But it's not concealed!"
"I don't need a permit for open carry" I added.
There was a look of total confusion and consternation on Deputy D's face. He and Deputy M looked back and forth at each other, at me, at my gun, and then looked at each other again, seemingly at a loss about how to handle open carry.
"He showed me an ID" offered Deputy M suggestively.
"OK, show me your ID" demanded Deputy D.
I handed it to him, and he barely glanced at it before handing it back, turning away from me and saying "just go in."
"Who, me?" I asked, wanting to be sure.
"Yea, just go in," he said again with finality, glad to be done with me, and surely not wanting to have to deal with his supervisors again on the issue of legally armed citizens.
Although there was little on the agenda to interest me (I'm not even a Richmond resident), I stayed for two hours just to make sure the deputies didn't have a change of heart or mind. But they wisely left well enough alone.
VCDL has blazed yet another trail for the freedom of Virginia's gun owners. So feel free to carry your firearm to the Richmond City Council Meeting, either open or concealed as you prefer. It is your right.
Dennis J. O'Connor
Director, VCDL
"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves."
William Pitt, 1781
--- Dennis O'Connor
If you would liketo reply to Mr O'Connor, email me and I will forward it, or just follow the link in my signature to find his emaill address on the VCDL's website.
__________________
For the cost of a box of ammo, you can do something for your Virginia gun rights
"It has got to the point in this country where men believe they are men, just because of their birthright. If that is true, then, by the same logic, an animal held captive in a zoo is still a wild free beast."
- The Anarchist Cookbook, by William Powell
BNRVA@aol.comwww.vcdl.org
Effectiveness of your local gun lobby (small CCW/open carry victory in Va tonight)
Don't think your local progun lobby can be as effective as the NRA? Read this letter I just received from my friend Dennis O'Connor, Board Member & Head Gun Show Coordinator for the Virginia Citizens Defense League. As any of us would do, Dennis threw his * on the line for us tonite, and we certainly appreciate everything he's doing for us:
quote:
The following is an account of last night's events. Yea, I'm still stirring up the pot.
Dennis
Original Message
From: Dennis O'Connor
To: Philip Van Cleave
Sent: 7/23/2002 6:41:15 PM
Subject: "Then what are you?
On May 28th, seven VCDL members converged on Richmond City Hall to apprise the city council that the gun ban signs in city parks were illegal and had to come down. Those of us who were armed showed our permits to the deputies manning metal detectors at either door and were waved through without incident. However, ten minutes later I alone was inexplicably called out by a deputy and informed that no firearms were permitted at the council meeting. After unsuccessfully challenging the deputy, I left the building.
VCDL President Philip Van Cleave, who was already scheduled to speak at that meeting, took the opportunity to lambaste the council for their violation of my civil rights, and over the next several weeks spoke with the Richmond Sheriff's office on behalf of VCDL to demand satisfaction.. An internal affairs inquiry ensued, and we were led to believe that Richmond's Deputy Sheriffs were apprised of citizens' rights to bear arms, and the situation had been resolved.
On Monday, July 22, I drove up to Richmond to attend the City Council Meeting for the purpose of testing Richmond's compliance with state law regarding the rights of gun owners.
As I pulled into the parking lot opposite City Hall, the thought occurred to me that since I had driven all this way to put them to the test, I might as well "push the envelope" and carry open. So I walked into the lobby with a .45 semi-auto in my Fobus holster in plain view on my right hip. As I signed in at the desk, Deputy Sheriff M stood up and asked "What's that?" while pointing to my hip.
"My firearm" I replied.
"What are you doing with it here?"
"I always carry it."
"Are you RPD (Richmond Police)?"
"No."
"You can't go into the council meeting with that!"
"Oh, really? Is there an ordinance against it?"
"Yes."
"I'd like to see it."
"I don't have it here. They probably have one upstairs."
"I would be interested in getting a copy of it, since if one exists it is clearly in violation of state law, especially in light of the preemption bill signed by the Governor that was implemented July 1st."
He stared at me a moment, taking it all in.
"Have you been to council meetings before?" he asked.
"Yes."
"With that?" (pointing to my gun)
"The last time I was here I carried concealed" (neglecting to tell him I was evicted for it).
At this, he ignored me for a couple minutes, overseeing others signing in, glancing back at me occasionally and probably hoping I would go away. He seemed confused as to what to do.
"I'd like to see the ordinance" I reminded him.
"You're a detective!" he announced hopefully, looking for an easy out.
"No" I said.
Exasperated now, and with raised voice he asked "Then what are you?"
Smiling, I answered "a citizen."
After a pause to mull this over, Deputy M said "Show me your handgun permit."
"You mean in case I ever decide to conceal it? As you can see, this is not concealed. I'm carrying open. No permit is required." (I had a concealed carry permit in my wallet, but I refused to let that be my ticket in, as it would set a bad precedent for citizens without permits who legally carry open).
He stood there looking at me, and after another pause, demanded "show me some ID."
When I complied, he compared my ID to my signature where I had signed in, as if I would have signed in under an alias. Maybe he just needed to feel as though he was in better control of the situation than he really was.
"OK, come with me" he said with resignation. We took the elevator to the 2nd floor, and rounded the corner to where Deputy D was manning the metal detector outside the council chambers. Deputy D was the one who had evicted me for concealed carry two months before, and we immediately recognized each other.
"Ohhh, I know him," sighed Deputy D with a roll of his eyes when he saw me coming. I gave him a cheerful hello, which he didn't return. "I know him," he said again to Deputy M.
It was clear that Deputy D had been counseled concerning the right of citizens to bear arms since our last interaction, but apparently he was only advised to ask for a concealed carry permit to allow access, which he now did.
At this, Deputy M and I now both chimed in together: "But it's not concealed!"
"I don't need a permit for open carry" I added.
There was a look of total confusion and consternation on Deputy D's face. He and Deputy M looked back and forth at each other, at me, at my gun, and then looked at each other again, seemingly at a loss about how to handle open carry.
"He showed me an ID" offered Deputy M suggestively.
"OK, show me your ID" demanded Deputy D.
I handed it to him, and he barely glanced at it before handing it back, turning away from me and saying "just go in."
"Who, me?" I asked, wanting to be sure.
"Yea, just go in," he said again with finality, glad to be done with me, and surely not wanting to have to deal with his supervisors again on the issue of legally armed citizens.
Although there was little on the agenda to interest me (I'm not even a Richmond resident), I stayed for two hours just to make sure the deputies didn't have a change of heart or mind. But they wisely left well enough alone.
VCDL has blazed yet another trail for the freedom of Virginia's gun owners. So feel free to carry your firearm to the Richmond City Council Meeting, either open or concealed as you prefer. It is your right.
Dennis J. O'Connor
Director, VCDL
"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves."
William Pitt, 1781
--- Dennis O'Connor
If you would liketo reply to Mr O'Connor, email me and I will forward it, or just follow the link in my signature to find his emaill address on the VCDL's website.
__________________
For the cost of a box of ammo, you can do something for your Virginia gun rights
"It has got to the point in this country where men believe they are men, just because of their birthright. If that is true, then, by the same logic, an animal held captive in a zoo is still a wild free beast."
- The Anarchist Cookbook, by William Powell
BNRVA@aol.comwww.vcdl.org