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Ever seen vapor trails from bullets?

RembrandtRembrandt Member Posts: 4,486 ✭✭
edited June 2002 in General Discussion
Found this on another site, thought it was very interesting. There have been a number of times I thought I saw the path of a bullet similar to a tracer round, here is a good explanation of this phenomon....


What is air?

It is a mixture of several gases - by volume;

Nitrogen 78.03%
Oxygen 20.99%
Argon 0.94%
Carbon dioxide 0.03%
Hydrogen 0.01%
Neon Trace
Helium Trace
Krypton Trace
Xenon Trace

Gas mixtures required properties are ( for industrial applications and compression) :

Specific volume
Density
Volume and mole percent
Molecular weight
Specific gravity
Partial pressure
Ratio of specific heats (k)
Pseudo critical pressure
Psuedo critical temperature
Compressibility
Gas constant
Specific heats

The MOLE;

The mole is a unit of measurement when working with gas mixtures. The specific volume and densiy of some gases are.

Gas---SpecVol cu.ft/mole-lb/mole-Spec.vol/cu.ft/lb.-Density

Hydrogen-379
2.016
188.3
.00531
Air
379
28.97
13.1
.0763
Isobutane-379
58.12
6.51
.153

The character of air changes according to temperature and humidity. The amount of "water" contained in air can be staggering. For example an air compressor takes in atmospheric air and compresses it. The intake volume is 1,000 cfm ( cubic feet per minute ) *{ Thats a fairly large compressor like those seen on construction sites}. The number of pounds of moisture per 1,000 cubic feet of saturated air at 14.7 lbs. absolute and temperatures shown;

Pressure
Temperature
Pounds of water per minute.
0
32F
0.3
0
70F
0.8
0
100F
2.8

On a really hot day 1/3 of a gallon of water is sucked into the intake of a compressor each MINUTE! After one hour's running that's .33 x 60 = 20 gallons or 4 - 5 gallon buckets of water.

The above is to illustrate what it is that a bullet travels through. It is pushing aside molecules of gases that can be laden with moisture. Not only are you able to see the "contrails" under some conditions, they can actually be photographed and often are in ballistics laboratories. Shadowgrams are produced. Different bullets leave different contrails and those trails take different forms depending upon the velocity at which the bullet is travelling. There is a distinct change in trails as the bullet passes up through, or down through, the speed of sound or the "sound barrier". A "stream can be seen coming off the bullets nose or ogive, in a "V" configuration. A second stream trace is seen coming from the base of the bullet. And a third stream is seen behind the bullet that looks like the wake from a boat in water. It is turbulence. I suppose the prow of a boat, as it cuts through water, could be likened to a bullet but just consider that the air and humidity is much thinner than the water.

So as the bullet progresses, or advances, it shoulders aside molecules of air and moisture and as it passes the void, or "vacuum" left behind is re-filled as the air collapses back into the void.

Some practical examples of air being pushed and water condensing are:

* You are standing on the berm of a highway when a tractor trailer passes. The blast of air almost knocks you off your feet.

* You pull into your driveway, your wife steps out of the car and exclaims - " what is all of that water running out from under the car, is there a leak? No, there isnt any leak. It's only condensation pouring off of the air conditioning system.

Under some lighting conditions, usually when the sun is low in the sky, a bullet can be seen traveling. That is sunlight reflecting from the copper jacket. An entirely different cause and effect related to light waves. Quite different than air and humidity related to moving gas molecules.

Comments

  • varmit huntervarmit hunter Member Posts: 1,674 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Down here we don't have air, Just humidity.It helps to be born here,If not you will get use to it in about thirty years.We set up a spoting scope,Behind,And above the shooter.When conditions are right,You can see the con trail and bullet. Last time at the range we could spot 25/06,And .300win mag sometimes.The .50cal was no problem.

    The most important things, Are not things.
  • idsman75idsman75 Member Posts: 13,398 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Last time I saw a vapor trail was from behind Ma Deuce.
  • robsgunsrobsguns Member Posts: 4,581 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    When shooting matches and spotting in the team competition you can virtually see every shot's vapor trail if you make a habit of looking for it, and you can also predict with amazing accuracy where the shot hit by the vapor trail, once you get good at it. Its pretty cool knowing where the shot hit before the target comes back up, and seeing the looks of spectators when every shot you call comes up just the way you called it. Weather conditions are helpful for this of course.

    SSgt Ryan E. Roberts, USMC
  • 4wheeler4wheeler Member Posts: 3,441
    edited November -1
    I am a lowly electrical/electronics man,please go over that one more time but in english/redneck terms

    "It was like that when I got here".
  • groundhog devastationgroundhog devastation Member Posts: 4,495
    edited November -1
    I saw some vapor trails one time. It was after I was loading for a 243 and the phone rang. While on the phone the breeze turned the pages in a SIERRA loading manual. 90grFMJ fits both you know!! 240Weatherby Magnum is somewhat more stout than the 243. I charged the cases after the phone call and proceeded to the bench the next day. First 2 shots, touching!!! 3rd shot, vapor trail, 5 holes in target that should only have 3 and the bolt stuck!! .243WIN stamped on the bolt face when I got it out!!!! No more vapor trails since then!! GHD
  • varmit huntervarmit hunter Member Posts: 1,674 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Robsguns.I had no trouble calling shots for the .50cal at 600 yrds.It is neat to see them go through the target.Looking through the spoting scope, They just seem to pop up. I could see the arch of the flight path.

    The most important things, Are not things.
  • bullelkbullelk Member Posts: 679 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Robsguns,
    That reminds me of when I used to shoot on the Mass. rifle team. We used to call it the Wake. That was pretty neat, like you say. You could predict where each shot would hit. Memorys, memorys.
    Gino

    "If All Else Fails, Read The Directions"
  • AlpineAlpine Member Posts: 15,092 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I don't mean to nit pick, but I will any way. A construction compressors maxium pressure will not exceed 150 psi. Your data assumes you will be removing all the water from the air, and you cannot. The amount of water comming out of the air is directly proportional to the pressure. My high pressure compressor pumps 5,000 psi and will get the water content down to 3 to 5%. That is all that will come out, unless you run air through chemicals specifically for that removal.
    Another explaination is possible, the spotters are seeing the wake of the bullet, and not a contrail, and the behind the bullet position makes the wake much more visible.
    "If you ain't got pictures, I wasn't there."

    Edited by - Alpine on 06/06/2002 10:07:51
    ?The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.?
    Margaret Thatcher

    "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."
    Mark Twain
  • robsgunsrobsguns Member Posts: 4,581 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    varmint hunter, bullelk,
    Isnt it incredible how that seems so obvious once you've been taught to look for it and learn to read it, when before you were told of it, you probably never saw it, or even heard of it, much less thought it possible? That arc is pretty cool VH, gets to be pretty pronounced at the longer distances, I've never seen the .50 cal. vapor trail, havent had time to look for it when I've shot it. I'd like to shoot a target gun in .50, all I've shot is the M2. I honestly cant remember if I could see the .223's trail, but I think so, I know I saw the .308's trail, very easy to see. It would be interesting to see the diff. in trails from one cal. to another, and even in bullets the same size, but at faster speeds depending on their chambering, all on the firing line at the same time, with the same weather and everything, would be a good video opportunity.

    SSgt Ryan E. Roberts, USMC
  • ClairClair Member Posts: 679 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Saw in with my 30-06. Hard to beleive you can hit anything the way it seems to be waving around all over the place.
  • whiteclouderwhiteclouder Member Posts: 10,574 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Usta see 'em all the time before I switched to soft points. Now they jist melt 'n all I * is a puddle 'bout half way to the targit.

    Saw a '06 bullet once. Moved jist in time.

    Clouder..
  • 4GodandCountry4GodandCountry Member Posts: 3,968
    edited November -1
    My boxer has a bad habbit of leaving a vapor trail. When it wakes him from a dead sleep and he gets up and leaves the room I get up and leave also.

    When Clinton left office they gave him a 21 gun salute. Its a damn shame they all missed....
  • 4GodandCountry4GodandCountry Member Posts: 3,968
    edited November -1
    My boxer has a bad habbit of leaving a vapor trail. When it wakes him from a dead sleep and he gets up and leaves the room I get up and leave also.

    When Clinton left office they gave him a 21 gun salute. Its a damn shame they all missed....
  • RembrandtRembrandt Member Posts: 4,486 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Dang Clouder, I almost forgot about those lead bullets that melt due to high velocities....maybe that was what I saw streaking through the range, sort of like a meteorite.....
  • Wild TurkeyWild Turkey Member Posts: 2,425 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    105 mm howitzer in direct fire mode at Ft. Sill, OK (no water in that air) we just watched the projectile-

    Wild Turkey"if your only tool is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail"
  • Wild TurkeyWild Turkey Member Posts: 2,425 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Just remembered reading an article somewhere about bullets actually following a "corkscrew" path downrange; especially noticable if spin rate and bullet design are not set up correctly.

    Tank cannon (before advent of fin stabilized rounds) also had to adjust for the movement to side due to spin at long ranges.

    If you want to do some mind boggling math, try figuring the Kinetic Energy and heat generated when a 15 lb penetrator hits armor plate at 5000 fps----

    Wild Turkey"if your only tool is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail"
  • groundhog devastationgroundhog devastation Member Posts: 4,495
    edited November -1
    Precision Shooting had an article on spotting a couple years ago about watching vapor trails and the correct position for the spotter. I'll look thru the old issues and try to find it and let you guys know where to look for the info. Sarah, my 13 yr.old doesn't look for vapor trails. She just says, "You were high right about 2 inches or you w're low right 6 inches or you were 3 inches high!! I wish I could keep my eys open, not blink and shoot with both eyes open like she can!!! I guess age does that to us!! GHD
  • bluegoose11bluegoose11 Member Posts: 1,011 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    When I was in the Navy I ran a pistol range in Japan while giving classes in 45 shooting if you stand behind the person shooting at a paper target you can see what I thought was the bullet {maybe vapor trail} almost every shot.
  • sig-mansig-man Member Posts: 591 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Maybe the conditions were just right the day I watched bullets coming from a .44 magnum go mdown range and hit the target,it was weird , we all saw it doing that and have never seen it repeated...

    R.I.P 45, 28, 3
  • smokinggunsmokinggun Member Posts: 590 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    When the bullet is backlighted by the sun or lights at the range I've seen the bullet travel to the target several times. I've never seen them when I was shooting, only when I was standing behind the shooter and mostly large caliber slower moving bullets.

    BNRVA@aol.comwww.vcdl.org
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