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Is this a illegal sign????

ccasey612ccasey612 Member Posts: 901 ✭✭✭✭
edited September 2002 in General Discussion
Smokinggun and I where at the shooting range last nigh and on the way out we noticed that there is a sign that says " NO LOADED GUNS IN BUILDING. NO EXCEPTIONS". How big of a target does that make us? We we left the range it was dark and no one was out in the parking lot. Someone could have come up to us and pointed a gun at us and said give us your money and guns. To be a Pro Gun place that seemed a little messed up. Smokinggun does not think it applies to CCW holders because if it does he think it may be a illegal sign. What do you think????

If you will blame gun makers for every shooting then blame car maker for every car accident.
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Comments

  • reel-guyreel-guy Member Posts: 46 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    It seems reasonable, and legal, to request that guns not be loaded in a building.

    Sounds like the sign does not say you can't have a loaded gun in the parking lot though. Perhaps you could jack in a round as you walk to the car if worried about robbery.
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  • NighthawkNighthawk Member Posts: 12,022 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Unfortunantely they can put up a sign as you mentioned and make it illegal for CC on their property.Most every Hospital has this policy,dont make since if you are suitable for a CCW permit.But you dont meet their requirements.I would look for another range because thats the last place you should have to worry about CC.Give a Pro Gun range your support.

    Best!!!

    Rugster


    Toujours Pret

    Edited by - Rugster on 09/19/2002 10:01:37
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  • nunnnunn Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 36,085 ******
    edited November -1
    At many gun clubs the rule is: "NO LOADED GUNS EXCEPT ON THE FIRING LINE, AND THEN ONLY WHEN THE COMMAND TO LOAD IS GIVEN." That is a "cold" range.

    It is a little hard to get used to when I go to a club to shoot.

    My PD range is a "hot" range. All guns are expected to be loaded at all times. Shooters are expected to keep reloading until they are out of ammo, unless ordered otherwise. A gun in the holster is "safe" loaded or not.

    But, on my range, we don't have all kinds of people showing up with all levels of experience and expertise either. And we don't have a half dozen people shooting at once, with another 20 or 30 watching. At most, there will be two shooters, one instructor, and maybe a spectator or two.

    All ranges have rules. You can follow the rules, you can go to a different range, or you can have the rules changed. I have done all three at various times.


    SIG pistol armorer/FFL Dealer/Full time Peace Officer, Moderator of General Discussion Board on Gunbroker. Visit www.gunbroker.com, the best gun auction site on the Net! Email davidnunn@texoma.net
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  • ccasey612ccasey612 Member Posts: 901 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I like the range. There are some good folks there. I am a member of the range. I respected that rule until last night when I was standing out side of the range at night talking and there was no one around. To me that sign is saying "Rob me please".

    If you will blame gun makers for every shooting then blame car maker for every car accident.
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  • nunnnunn Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 36,085 ******
    edited November -1
    If there was no one around, to whom were you talking?

    You are starting to worry me.

    SIG pistol armorer/FFL Dealer/Full time Peace Officer, Moderator of General Discussion Board on Gunbroker. Visit www.gunbroker.com, the best gun auction site on the Net! Email davidnunn@texoma.net
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  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Member Posts: 1,074 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    There are signs like that on the building where I work, dont belive everything you read

    Those people who see nothing but grey areas, no black and white, are lost in the fog.
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  • ccasey612ccasey612 Member Posts: 901 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Smoking gun was there but that was it. It is pretty dark out there.
    He had his guns in a case in his hands.

    If you will blame gun makers for every shooting then blame car maker for every car accident.
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  • competentonecompetentone Member Posts: 4,696 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    It sounds like this is an indoor range on private property.

    Consequently, I don't think this would be a matter of a "legal" or "illegal" sign. Private property owners still have rights.

    Best thing for clarification is to ask the owners.

    The sign probably has a lot to do with "liability issues".

    If there is an accidental discharge and somebody is injured or killed, the range owner has a good defense in that the accident would not have occurred if the customer at his range had followed his rules. Since the customer broke the rule, the customer alone, would be liable. The range owner took reasonable action (ie. the rule and sign) to prevent such accidents and has a reasonable defense against a lawsuit .

    As for being robbed leaving the range--I doubt this is a place the criminal element would "hang-out" at! But if you're concerned, just load your weapon after you leave the building.
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  • ccasey612ccasey612 Member Posts: 901 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    It is a indoor range but when we go in we sigh a waiver and that should be that.

    If you will blame gun makers for every shooting then blame car maker for every car accident.
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  • competentonecompetentone Member Posts: 4,696 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    But there is still the issue of "new" people coming to the range before they have signed the waiver...
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  • ccasey612ccasey612 Member Posts: 901 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I understand that but you should have to worry about that with a CCW holder. If my state thinks I can conceal a handgun safely why cant they. Hell I took my safety class there.

    If you will blame gun makers for every shooting then blame car maker for every car accident.
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  • competentonecompetentone Member Posts: 4,696 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Ccasey,

    I'm not saying it's "right", I'm just telling you some of the concerns a business owner has--liability issues are an important concern, especially since "gun ban groups" have focused attention on using lawsuits to attempt to destroy the private ownership of firearms.

    A few years ago most insurance company's stopped offerring liability coverages to firearm/range businesses--it was the lawsuit threats which caused them to drop insurance for these businesses. There are a very limited number of places a range or gun shop can get business insurance these days, so sometimes some of the "rules" can seem excessive, but they are needed to help protect against possible lawsuits.
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  • ccasey612ccasey612 Member Posts: 901 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I get it.

    If you will blame gun makers for every shooting then blame car maker for every car accident.
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  • .280 freak.280 freak Member Posts: 1,942 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Wasn't going to say anything about this, but ..........


    In your first post, you said that you just noticed this sign last night.

    Then, in a reply to Nunn, you state that you are a member of the range and have always respected that rule up til now.

    Now I'm slightly confused??????????????
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  • ccasey612ccasey612 Member Posts: 901 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    My fault. Change the we to he.

    If you will blame gun makers for every shooting then blame car maker for every car accident.
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  • TrinityScrimshawTrinityScrimshaw Member Posts: 9,350 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    They need a clearing barrel just outside the entrance to this building. Them when someone exits, they can lock & load their firearms. They may just decide to change their procedures after seeing everyone stopping to do this in sight of God & Country .

    Trinity +++

    "Train up a child in the way he should go, even when he is old he will not depart from it."(Proverbs 22:6)
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  • reel-guyreel-guy Member Posts: 46 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Signing a waiver is virtually meaningless if there is an incident and it goes to court. Courts routinely toss out waivers for countless reasons.
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  • smokinggunsmokinggun Member Posts: 590 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The range rules say no ammo allowed exept theirs(range ammo). When I said the sign could be illegal I meant that it might not be posted correctly by law and therefore not legal, but I can't find anywhere that says it has to be a certain way. So ccasey, we should ask them if the sign applies to concealed carry (no exceptions). Then if they say it does, ask them if they think we should be able protect ourselves in their parking lot.

    BNRVA@aol.comwww.vcdl.org
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  • RugerNinerRugerNiner Member Posts: 12,636 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Some Ranges say "All Guns must be Unloaded when entering Building"
    Doesn't say you can't leave with a loaded gun.

    Remember...Terrorist are attacking Civilians; Not the Government. Protect Yourself!
    Keep your Powder dry and your Musket well oiled.
    NRA Lifetime Benefactor Member.
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  • snake-eyessnake-eyes Member Posts: 869 ✭
    edited November -1
    I agree it is a insurance requirement, but bet your butt if someone came into that establishment with a loaded firearm and wanted to rob you, legally if you shot him in the range building the owner would have to sue you or have you prosecuted to keep his insurance policy.


    You have limited self defense rights out of your own home.

    *A wounded man can sue, a dead one get's burried*

    *If there is one gun for every 7 people in the world, I'm saving alot of people money*
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  • mybadodgemybadodge Member Posts: 118 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I know most criminals are stupid but do you really think too many of them would think a gun range is the place to go rob someone? Unless the sign is viewable from the street I wouldn't think so


    Bob



    "Ignorance spreads lies" - puddle of mudd
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  • Matt45Matt45 Member Posts: 3,185
    edited November -1
    The nail was hit on the head earlier- It's most likely private property. Even if it is a business open to the public, it is still private property. Any venture involving firearms, such as an indoor range, requires a double dump-truck load of liability insurance- Most likely the sign is a blanket-on-the-donkey requirement by the insurance company. (Read that as CYA).

    Reserving my Right to Arm Bears!!!!
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  • Judge DreadJudge Dread Member Posts: 2,372 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    If it is a CC permit who darn cares if not visible !!!!!!
    breaking a rule requires knoledge is being broken in the first place
    and self-defence is a priority rule wherever you are present, so keep
    one gun loaded and "CC"..

    JD

    400 million cows can't be wrong ( EAT GRASS !!! )
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  • cbxjeffcbxjeff Member Posts: 17,637 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Listen to the judge. Providing you have a carry permit, carry your piece. What can happen? Ok, some scumb bag comes at in the lot. You can lose two things - your life or being banned from the range for breaking their rules. I don't think we have a problem here!

    cbxjeffIt's too late for me, save yourself.
    It's too late for me, save yourself.
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  • smokinggunsmokinggun Member Posts: 590 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I think Judge and Cbx have the right idea.

    BNRVA@aol.comwww.vcdl.org
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