Blue book - vs - Reality ??

interstatepawnllc

O.K. dealer dudes. Someone was recently griping about inflated msrp, personally I think it is a tool to help dealers retail there weapons. Yes, it is ridiculous, if I sold 2 guns a week in my shop at msrp I could retire next year. What I wanna know is why the blue book of gun values estimations of value of used guns it no where near what my customers will pay? I am afraid the buying public ignorantly believes they get the best deals at "gun and knife" shows, man im getting hot now. Geez, whadda bout the licensed dealers who sell firearms at flea markets without paperwork, permits or background checks? "Private sale" they say, "no paperwork needed". Joe Blow is so paranoid he pays up the yazoo for this "paperless" firearm. I tell ya, it's getting to the point where it is to much trouble for the little guy to sell guns in a legal fashion, what do you think will happen to firearm prices when they can only be had by buying through the monopolies and or the black market? God I hate Wally world and K-mart !!

ericthered

I understand your delema and sympathize. But after the clinton administration and the medias 100% bias toward anti-gun leftists, I feel that I am going to have a target painted on my chest as soon as they can black ball Bush out of office like they did his father. So I hate paper. Even if it costs ten or twenty bucks more, I just don't want to wake up with someone like the ATF shooting me in the head because I own a couple of guns. On the other hand, there are lots of guys I see at the shows who don't mind doing the paper. Wish you the best.Eric

Der Gebirgsjager

Wanna bet we get moved over to General Discussion? Anyway, I hear you--about customers wanting to buy on the cheap. Here's some points though. The Marts no longer carry handguns. Not here, anyway. Too politcally incorrect and too much liability. So there's a large opportunity. The Marts offer such low prices (often I find their sales on such items as Ruger 10/22s at $10 below my dealer cost) because they buy a boxcar load and send a dozen to each store. But you'll find that they're not that big on variety. I know one dealer that goes to the bank when our Mart puts 10/22s on sale, gets a loan, goes to the Mart and buys them all. Then he puts them on sale at $20 over their cost. Also sells at gunshows. Pretty much the same old stuff from Mart to Mart. Rem. 870 Express, Rem. Mod. 700, Ruger 10/22, etc. This gives you an opportunity to run around either end. High end guns, low end guns. Also, brands that they don't carry. Special orders. One guy in this county ran over half the dealers out of business with, "I'll get you any gun at $20 over cost (plus shipping). This killed the boys that ordered at 10% over cost(plus shipping) because 10% of $500 is $50---and $20 is definately less. As some of them later learned, however, this person did (and still does) show the customers the price in the most expensive dealer flyer he has available, establishes a price, and then orders from a less expensive distributor. The customers that think your prices are too high will never buy from you. They will drink your coffee and take up your time, but always go to the gunshow. You have to concentrate on building a base of loyal customers that will buy from you because (A) they like you (B) they like your shop (atmosphere) (C) you have unique merchandise. Also, it doesn't hurt to develop a speciality. For example, if there are a lot of shotgun shooters in your area stock lots and lots of shotgun shells and reloading supplies. Shot, wads, once fired hulls, etc. Or maybe become THE reloading place. Advertise your speciality: "Bob's Guns--Largest Inventory of Shotgun Suppies in the State!" Sometimes pricing something desireable at a break-even price will put you below the Marts and bring in new customers. Some of them will buy more than just the sale item; and some of them will come back. If you have room in the back of your store for a gunsmith, bring one in. Give him a great deal on the rent, because people will have to walk through your shop to get to the back to see him and decide that they need to buy something on the way out. Consider some shooting related merchandise like ear muffs, targets, grips, etc. Best Wishes.

woodsrunner

I have a few comments to make here as an advanced collector and son of an ex dealer.MSRP means nothing for your average gun, The exception that makes something other than average the Specialty guns (Sharps, Etc) The demand exceeds production so whatever the manufacturer suggests is the price.As far as Blue Book, It's a pretty good guidline but not carved in stone. Now there can be regional differences. An example I can give is 20ga Ithaca featherwieghts. When steel shot came along the 20ga was the last to have to change over. My dad couldn't keep one in the rack back then. Now 20 yrs later you can't give them away around here. Still a good gun but lots of used ones around and the lead shot for waterfowling is no longer an advantage.I remember dad catching all kinds of H*ll for selling to LEO's at cost + sales tax. But he got alot of referals that way. Don't knock the guy selling at a low mark up. He's just found other ways to make the money. Dad was a pistol smith, you didn't get out the door at $20.00 over cost. That might be all he charged you for the gun, but there were modifications and tune jobs done, that's where he made his money.I myself won't buy from one of the Mart's or Dicks for that matter. You want my money offer me what they can't. SERVICE!! Too many dealers now days want your money but aren't willing to earn it. I won't buy from someone who isn't a smith. Mounting scopes and slings doesn't make you a smith either. I want to walk into your shop and find you bent over a gun in a hundred pieces.Consider offering terms to purchase. Yes it cost's you money, but let me tell you about "MY" dealer. He just retired in May after 40 years in business. I did business with him for 22 years. He offered very liberal terms. I realize most dealers can't, but more should try. His terms were 10% down, $10.00 minimum a week 6 months max. That sounds pretty unreasonable to most dealers ears. BUT!!! 2 years ago I bought my first home. To get the down payment I sold $9,000.00 worth of guns. This was less than half my collection. That's also not figuring the ones I sold or traded off over the years.My collection currently is appraised at just over $10,000.00 . I sat down and was thinking the other day about all this. In those 22 years I bought three guns from someone other than this dealer. In those 22 years I bought 95% of my ammunition from this dealer. I also bought 3 reloading presses. Probably hundreds of pounds of powder, who knows how many bullets, die sets, clothes, scopes, etc..As far as paperwork is concerned, it doesn't matter. I've filled out so many 4473's they'd never be able to figure out what I have. So if you want business, give service, knowledge (without arrogance helps), Work with people if you want them to drop a weeks+ wages on a gun. And if some 16 year old kid walks in with his dad and asks you to take payments on that old remington 722 in .308. The one with almost no blueing and an old weaver 4 power on it. Consider he might be the one who foots the bill for your kids college education.I miss My gun shop, and if I don't climb down off my soap box I'll start shedding tears about it. Thanks for letting me speak about it guys.

J.John

I have no problem with anyone making a buck. The problem is when Joe Blow goes to the bank and borrows the money to buy up a truck load of the special discount guns from my wholesalers, thrn one of my customers comes inthe store and wants me to order him a gun at cost + 10%. I call every wholesaler in my roladex and can't find this gun any where, nor his 2nd or 3rd choice. A sure sale out the window.Then he can go to the gun show or get on the net and buy this gun for a little more than it costs me.

Orphanedcowboy

I can give you another aspect, as a buyer. I want to be informed, I want a knowledgeable dealer who's honest. Price is important to me, but so is honesty. I feel if I can gather all the knowledge about a particular caliber or gun that I am interested in I am more likely to buy from him even if he is 10 to 50 dollars more than some other uneducated seller. Knowledge and trust are my two biggest issues. If I am looking at a particular gun, and I see it on sell and have had previous expirience with it or knowledge of it's quality I may go to a major discounter, but for the most part I try to stay with one or two dealers or use gunbroker. Another point is when selling a gun, I recently went to sell a gun to "CTD" and they offered less than half their cost for the gun, I walked out, I'll let them do my transfers, but no more sales to me at all, I watched them buy a gun for less than half of what they had it for sale for the next day, they claim to pay 70% of their total cost for clean near new guns, this is a crock. I have watched their customer base slip and slid because of dishonesty, and unknowledgable sales people to eager to to make a commision, than to satisfy a customer.

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Orphanedcowboy@msn.com

gunnut

I am not a dealer, but a "modest" collector, however I do think that the gun industry is similar to the Computer industry in that the money is not made in the hardware itself, but in the service and accessories. Just an obersavation. oh yea and the spelling is just not working this mornin I tend to purchase from dealers in my area for the following reasons..I like to stop and visit with people that share in the same intrestPrices are resonable, I understand that there is a thing called overhead.If I were to have a problem he has always helped in anyway he could.And sometimes just because they are not wally world!!

Phil

I've found that about 9 out of 10 dealers know less than I do about guns.I definitely am aware that they have to cover the overhead of maintaining a shop,and I feel for them,but their prices are too high.I always buy at gun shows-I've noticed that even dealers will sell at a reasonable price if they want to sell a gun bad enough.It's true,though,that the larger outfits can undersell the mom-and-pop shops.I've also noticed that they ALWAYS crouch down behind the counter and thumb through a Blue Book when I make them an offer.I hate to say this,will probably anger some folks,but I think that(most)gun dealers are flat-out on the bandwagon with the congresspeople that want to ban gun shows.

prebanfan

My view will not be popular. If I can save even a small amount or money I will buy my gun from a hung over 21 year old at Wal-Mart. I don't know about other people, but were I am from we only have 2 gun shops in town and they act like it's the biggest pain in the world to get the guns out of the rack and let me look them over until I make my choice. I always have alot of quesitons before I spend hundreds of dollars. I have pretty much given up on our local dealers. Any new gun I by in the future will come from a gun show, wal-mart or from outside of my area. They have to earn my business and at least act like they appreciate me as a customer or I will walk out.....UNLESS the price is not able to be beat. Then I can put up with rudness. Just being honest

MFI

Prebanfan I am a dealer but I do agree with some of your points. There are alot of crappy dealers out there guys that dont even belong in the business. We have some in our area who in all thruthfullness make things better for me because no one will go to their places. I obviuosly hate the marts because they undercut me so bad but I dont blame you for going there. If we weed out the dead beat dealers it only makes things better for us good ones. Service to the customer, respect for each customer and decent prices seperate the good from the bad. Succeeding in business really is no secret.

Xracer

The reason to go to a gunshop or dealer is to get expert input and advice, and personalized service.....which you certainly can't get from the pimply-faced school dropout at (you supply the name)Mart.I, for one, am willing to pay a little extra for this.If a dealer or shop is unable, or unwilling, to provide this, there's no reason for me to pay more than the "Marts" charge.Unfortunately, I've recently gone to several gunshops and found the same pimply-faced dropouts behind their counters....This is a GREAT topic....Capt., please let it run!

semi-auto

In some cases, I have developed a relationship with dealers who do most of their business at shows, which can sometimes help with price or them accepting my trade. I value my local dealer friends with the shops because I can trust them to receive guns bought on the net without hard feelings, as well as them holding back nice things so I can see them first, and most times they'll give me their best price. They are also willing to take most of my trades at a fair value, don't charge me extra for using a credit card, lay away guns, find obscure parts, get me inexpensive blueing and plating jobs done, and they are real friends. I'm talking about two guys out of dozens in my area. Pays to have gun shop buddies over gun show buddies any day! On the blue book, the guys and I use the book values and current wholesale to value guns that are properly graded to everyone's satisfaction, to determine fair local value of a given firearm. Been working OK.[This message has been edited by semi-auto (edited 11-11-2001).]