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NRA Takes Dell's Side In Dispute With Gunsmith

Josey1Josey1 Member Posts: 9,598 ✭✭
edited March 2002 in General Discussion
NRA Takes Dell's Side In Dispute With Gunsmith E-Mail This Article Printer-Friendly Version By Brian McWilliams, NewsbytesFAIRFAX, VIRGINIA, U.S.A.,04 Mar 2002, 12:40 PM CST Stepping into the middle of a fiery debate, the National Rifle Association has declared that Dell Computer Corp. [NASDAQ ELL] is not an enemy of gun owners. In a message posted Friday at its Web site and faxed to some members, the nation's biggest gun lobbying organization weighed in on a dispute between a Pennsylvania gunsmith named Jack Weigand and the Texas-based computer maker. "NRA will continue to explore these issues, but it would appear that Dell as a corporation does not support an anti-gun agenda, as some have been reporting," said the message at the NRA's legislative action site. Weigand, owner of Weigand Combat Handguns Inc., touched off a angry debate last week when he posted a message at his site and in several gun forums, describing how Dell initially canceled his order for an Inspiron notebook computer in February. Dell subsequently confirmed that Weigand's company name triggered an automated order screening system put in place by Dell following the Sept. 11 attacks on America. Weigand has deflected Dell's subsequent apology and refused its offer to ship him the computer at no charge. Last week, some gun owners' ire was raised further when Weigand posted an update at his site suggesting Dell was indirectly funding Hand Gun Control Inc. (HCI), a lobbying group that changed its name to The Brady Campaign last June. The NRA noted that while Dell Computer is listed as a participating merchant in an online mall for HCI at ProgressiveFunds.com, an affiliate program site run by EduOrg.com, the computer maker is also listed in EduOrg-hosted online malls for politically conservative causes, including the Christian Coalition and the National Republican Congressional Committee. "Such 'affinity' programs have become commonplace in the era of the Internet, and generally do not reflect any given political bent on the part of participating vendors when they do not specifically benefit a single group or cause," said the NRA. Last week, a Dell representative said the company participates in an affiliate program run by Igive.com that allows shoppers who purchase computers to donate a small percentage of their payment to various causes, including organizations on "both sides of the gun issue." Among the groups that receive donations from purchases of Dell computers at Igive.com are pro-gun groups The Gun Owners Foundation and the Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners Foundation, as well as Handgun Control Inc. and the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence, the Dell official said. Meanwhile, messages in online discussion forums continue to pillory Dell over its stance regarding the second amendment to the U.S. Constitution. This morning, someone identifying himself as a male from Austin, Texas, posted a note at a Yahoo message board stating that Dell doesn't allow licensed gun owners to carry guns on company property, or to keep them in cars parked in company lots. "Dell has absolutely staked out an anti-gun position with that prohibition," wrote the anonymous poster. Gary Marbut, president Montana Shooting Sports Association, told Newsbytes that Dell ignored his efforts two years ago to arrange a group computer sale to members of the gun association. "As soon as they figured out I was from a gun group, the sales people stopped listening," said Marbut. In light of that and recent events, "I've seen nothing yet to persuade me that gun owners should give them any more business, ever," he added. Weigand's site today included links to the NRA's statement as well as a copy of a letter from Dell explaining its participation in affinity programs. According to Weigand, "I have since purchased a notebook computer elsewhere, so I hope that issue is settled." Weigand's site is at http://www.jackweigand.com . The NRA's statement is at http://www.nraila.org/ActionAlerts.asp?FormMode=Detail&ID=101 . Reported by Newsbytes, http://www.newsbytes.com .
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Comments

  • YankeeClipperYankeeClipper Member Posts: 669 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Let's fallow up on the story of them donating money to Handgun Inc. If that is the case then It's about time that we all dropped our membership to the NRA. Did anyone notice that there is no place to E-Mail the NRA ?
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  • IconoclastIconoclast Member Posts: 10,515 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    As I said in the other thread, I'll continue to give more credence to what happened than the later cover story until I see some pro-firearms action on Dell's part. *And* no business to them.
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  • Shootist3006Shootist3006 Member Posts: 4,171
    edited November -1
    YankeeClipper, go to http://www.nra.org/ and scroll down to 'contact us' if you want to send a message to the NRA.
    Quod principi placuit legis habet vigorem.Semper Fidelis
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  • bhayes420bhayes420 Member Posts: 1,314 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    A quote from the earlier post: "This morning, someone identifying himself as a male from Austin, Texas, posted a note at a Yahoo message board stating that Dell doesn't allow licensed gun owners to carry guns on company property, or to keep them in cars parked in company lots. "Dell has absolutely staked out an anti-gun position with that prohibition," wrote the anonymous poster."When I worked at FedEx, they came up with the same policy. No guns on company property PERIOD. Zero tolerance. I worked midnights for a while, and it was common during deer season for me to leave work at 5:00 and head straight to the woods. I packed all my gear in my p/u, gun included. Had to stop that. Had a friend terminated because he had his rifle (cased) in the front seat. Security saw it, pulled him out of work, and made him get it out to show them for sure what it was. Immediate termination with no recourse. To this day, I will not use FedEx unless I absolutely, positively have to.
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  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I agree with Saxon. Dell took the matter seriously, their CEO personally explained the matter, and they have made their stand clear. If they want to be neutral, you can't expect them to do something "pro-gun" before you'll be satisfied. I'm taking the NRA's guidance on this one. Dell doesn't deserve an economic hit just because they're trying to take some positive post-9/11 action to keep terrorists from buying technology in America. They shouldn't have cancelled the guy's order without asking, but they did apologize for doing it and offered to make it up to him. Since most companies' CEO wouldn't have the smarts or risk his neck by coming out to speak for the company on anything controversial, I believe the man is sincere, principled, and deserves a break.
    "The 2nd Amendment is about defense, not hunting. Long live the gun shows, and reasonable access to FFLs. Join the NRA -- I'm a Life Member."
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  • BoomerangBoomerang Member Posts: 4,513
    edited November -1
    Offeror - 1. "Dell took the matter seriously, their CEO personally explained the matter, and they have made their stand clear." Response - Oh Please!! 2. "Dell doesn't deserve an economic hit just because they're trying to take some positive post-9/11 action to keep terrorists from buying technology in America."Response - Oh Please, are you kidding??3. "Since most companies' CEO wouldn't have the smarts or risk his neck by coming out to speak for the company on anything controversial, I believe the man is sincere, principled, and deserves a break."Response - I have a bridge for sale, if you truly believe this. It is all about the money. Boomer
    Protect our Constitutional Rights.
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  • Gordian BladeGordian Blade Member Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Weigand himself doesn't want to do business with Dell anymore, for whatever that's worth. If you want to check his web site go the the Weigand link above.If you had asked me Sunday, I would have agreed that it was an honest mistake, Dell has done what it should do, and we should forget about it. But I don't think Dell has come totally clean and that's what continues to nag me. I have heard of one unconfirmed story of another "gun" organization denied by Dell, but that hardly makes a pattern. If no pattern turns up, then it was probably just one employee making one mistake.[This message has been edited by Gordian Blade (edited 03-05-2002).]
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  • Gordian BladeGordian Blade Member Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    OK, OK, Saxon. I'm about to throw in the towel. I'm just waiting for the recount from Florida.
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  • twinstwins Member Posts: 647 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    As I understand it a portion of every dell sale goes to HCI. That is second hand info from ar15 dot com.
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  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Boomer --Oh please! If you own the bridge, you didn't get it from me, but somebody sold it to you...
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  • BoomerangBoomerang Member Posts: 4,513
    edited November -1
    Offeror - I will say it again, it is all about the money. The only reason this guy came out and said anything was for damage control purposes. If you read the PR release, it was pretty lame. He tried to wrap his company in the flag with the lame non-applicable excuse of keeping terrorists from getting a Dell, dude. If you choose to support this company based solely on this man's carefully crafted words as opposed to their actions, then that is your right. I choose a different path, one with my eyes open, and one with principles.Boomer
    Protect our Constitutional Rights. [This message has been edited by Boomerang (edited 03-07-2002).]
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  • salzosalzo Member Posts: 6,396 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I wouldnt buy a Dell anyway, 'cause I hate those stupid commercials with that stoned teenager.
    Happiness is a warm gun
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  • jhj370jhj370 Member Posts: 57 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    If I were a big co. like dell, i would have done the same thing. It's called damage control. You can't expect them, especially in this economy, to come out and become an unconditional sponsor of anything that has a dividing line. That would be suicide. Do you really think dell is as concerned about the gun control issue as they are about their bottom line and stock values? Wake Up!
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  • O'ReillyO'Reilly Member Posts: 36 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I read the thread between Weigand and Dell the other night for the first time the other night. I saw Robsguns reply in an anti-dell way. I saw Admin. of this forum react to Robsguns thread with a like it or leave it approach (pro-dell). I saw and am seeing many leaving to perfectunion.com there is a reason! Visit and Find Robsguns, White cluder and others there. No one is "poofing" threads and threatening their membership. Lets see how long this thread survives!
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  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I signed up over there too based on the banner ad; doesn't mean I left here. No, I don't believe Dell is pro-gun, but they came out and said they're not anti-gun either, distancing themselves from the idea that they are giving special support to HCI and their ilk. It is possible that Weigand enjoys his newfound limelight a little too much. The old saying goes "There is an attitude that will keep a man in everlasting ignorance, and that is contempt prior to investigation." I have my mind open as well as my eyes and I'm looking to be reasonable, not touchy. I haven't seen anything definitive, but a lot of opinions, and I assure you I do not change with the wind of these threads. It can be a little too windy.
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  • First On Race DayFirst On Race Day Member Posts: 7 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    As responsible gun owners and partaking in a hobby that is constantly under attack, shouldn't we pick our battles a little better?I agree with Saxon, sounds like an mistake and not worth the anxiety. Unfortunately, the only way Dell can come clean with some here is to open a gun store in their lobby.
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  • BullzeyeBullzeye Member Posts: 3,560
    edited November -1
    The NRA is doing this for a reason.I havent figured out exactly WHAT that reason is yet, but it is almost certainly something to do with money.Bottom Line: The "we dinna know we were supporting HCI! Honest!" excuse doesnt hold water. It's false faced and insulting.Any CEO who doesnt know exactly who, and what his company is being associated with, either directly or indirectly, is negligent and idiotic on a scale that would put Ken Lay to shame.They made a carefully calculated pose, both with their allowing of their company to be covertly allied with HCI, and their denial of the computer shipment to the "combat" company owner.They are making concious and careful poses, hoping that no one will notice if they do it on a small enough scale.Let me give you people who are a bit fuzzy on the details a brief synopsis: Actions like this do not just happen accidentally, right under a multi-billion dollar company's nose!Well, someone just noticed, and someone called them on it.And what do they do? They call out the heavy damage control and wheedle their way out of it. DENY DENY DENY!Screw Dell. They'll never have my business. Gateway, here I come!
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  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    When Time Magazine came out with an official editorial statement that declared that the gun issue was too important to remain neutral about, and that henceforth their editorial policy would be for gun control, I vowed never to buy Time again, and I haven't. I just haven't found the smoking gun here yet. My guess is that this week the Brady Bunch is accusing Dell of sucking up to the NRA. So who's right? Having worked near the top in corporate America, I know it's like pulling teeth to get a top executive to commit publicly on just about anything controversial. I still think Dell has at least tried to reassure the public that his company is neutral, while trying to write a filter program to keep terrorists from buying his product. I can give him one break, if he'll fix his program. Now if he is secretly funneling lots of money to the anti-gun agenda, then I'm all wet and I'll join the crowd in pillorying the guy, but so far the NRA hasn't found the smoking gun either. By the way, Gateway can use your money right now, and they do make a good computer, so go ahead if it'll make you feel better. Personally, my jury is still out.
    "The 2nd Amendment is about defense, not hunting. Long live the gun shows, and reasonable access to FFLs. Join the NRA -- I'm a Life Member."
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  • BoomerangBoomerang Member Posts: 4,513
    edited November -1
    Offeror - I hear you, and that is a calm and reasoned position, but please read the PR release again.There is a phrase buried in the last paragraph that is very telling, "no matter what they sell". This indicates to me that they have a distain for the gun industry. Maybe I am being too sensitive about this, but the lame non-applicable excuse about this being an export related issue to prevent terrorists from getting their hands on a Dell is just too much BS for me, and is CYA at the max. I do not like companies or anyone that attempt to wrap themselves in the flag to obscure the truth.That is why I made the statement to you earlier about an eyes open approach on this matter. Boomer
    Protect our Constitutional Rights. [This message has been edited by Boomerang (edited 03-08-2002).]
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