In order to participate in the GunBroker Member forums, you must be logged in with your GunBroker.com account. Click the sign-in button at the top right of the forums page to get connected.

effective range?

glowplug47glowplug47 Member Posts: 9 ✭✭
edited September 2002 in General Discussion
What would be the effective range (Texas Hill Country Deer) of a 9mm rifle with off the shelf ammo.
Thanks
· Share on FacebookShare on Twitter

Comments

  • glowplug47glowplug47 Member Posts: 9 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    What would be the effective range (Texas Hill Country Deer) of a 9mm rifle with off the shelf ammo.
    Thanks
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • BoomerangBoomerang Member Posts: 4,513
    edited November -1
    Are you asking about a 9mm Luger carbine for deer? Well, how far are you willing to track the critter after you shoot it? That round is better for less than 50 yard varmint/pest category of critters. The 9mm Luger is not my caliber of choice for deer.

    Boomer

    "Success is to be measured not so much by the position that one has reached in life as it is by the obstacles which one has overcome while trying to succeed."NRA Life Member

    Edited by - Boomerang on 09/08/2002 23:06:27
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • .280 freak.280 freak Member Posts: 1,942 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    First off, let me say right out front - I have absolutely zip, zilch, nada experience with the 9mm Luger round.

    However, ........ everything that I have ever read about the round would lead me to believe that it would be, at best, an extremely marginal round to use for deer hunting, regardless of the size of the deer you plan on shooting with it. (And who knows, you just might run into the deer of a lifetime, real monster, only 150 yards away, and there you sit with only a 9mm at your disposal. I don't know about you, but I would be sick to my stomach!)

    With so many other rounds available that are better suited for your purpose, the question begs to be asked - why do you wish to use this round for deer hunting?

    If cost is an issue, there are bargains to be had out there. Nothing wrong with a used rifle, for instance. If you prefer to buy new, consider a New England Firearms single shot, around $150.00 or thereabouts, chambered in an actual deer hunting caliber, ie, .243, .260, .270, .280, 30.06, etc., etc.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • William81William81 Member Posts: 25,499 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    My experience with 9mm rifles is that they are fun for plinking with and I believe they would be decent self defense firearms. They are not really ideal for Whitetail hunting IMHO. I also think you would be better off with something more powerful. If you insist on trying hunting Whitetail with one then I would keep it under 50 yards and be ready to trail whatever you shoot.

    Guns only have two enemies: Rust and Liberals....
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • BoomerangBoomerang Member Posts: 4,513
    edited November -1
    Why are there two of these topics?

    "Success is to be measured not so much by the position that one has reached in life as it is by the obstacles which one has overcome while trying to succeed."NRA Life Member
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • allen griggsallen griggs Member Posts: 35,696 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    There are three, counting the one from the other day, "hunting with the 9mm rifle." I think he isn't getting the answer he wants.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • txnhntrtxnhntr Member Posts: 136 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    only shoot a deer with a 9mm if its busting in yoour camper.

    glen e nuinez
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • He DogHe Dog Member Posts: 51,593 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Boomerang- so you can get another star sooner!

    A balanced diet is a cookie in each hand
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • robsgunsrobsguns Member Posts: 4,581 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Ya know, we seem to be treating this as a joke, but he may be serious, and I for one, although I havent gone and checked on the velocity of any given grain bullets for the 9mm, and have no idea what the energies made by this round are, would guess that a 9mm in an accurate rifle would most definitely be capable of taking a deer out to 100 yds., rather cleanly, as he has stated Texas deer, meaning the smallish variety. It should penetrate and have the same effect on one of those deer at that range as it would a human, and I for one am not going to stand in front of a 9mm at 100 yds., in the hands of a skilled shooter, from an accurate rifle, and wait to find out what it will do. Thats a pretty good size hole its gonna make, and could just penetrate clean through, making for a nice hole in the heart and lungs, or at least lungs, which should leave it every bit as dead as it would be from a slow moving 30-30 round at longer than normal ranges. Anyone here disagree? Just curious, because I'm too lazy to go find my reloading books after moving.

    SSgt Ryan E. Roberts, USMC
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • BoomerangBoomerang Member Posts: 4,513
    edited November -1
    I disagree on the 100 yard potential for this round, especially on game animals. BTW, it is too late and I to am too lazy to look it up to see if it has too little energy potential at too far of a distance to be used on game animals. Hmmmm, that sure is a lot "to-toos""

    "Success is to be measured not so much by the position that one has reached in life as it is by the obstacles which one has overcome while trying to succeed."NRA Life Member
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • robsgunsrobsguns Member Posts: 4,581 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Boomer,
    You've given me a reason to stay awake, be right back, I'll go look for us.

    SSgt Ryan E. Roberts, USMC
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • glowplug47glowplug47 Member Posts: 9 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    You are correct in the serious part of my question. I have been hunting these deer for 40 years with larger caliber weapons. I picked up this Marlin 9mm camp rifle cheap and it is a lot of fun to shoot. The deer part comes in as it is extrmeley light to carry and its darned accurate at 100 yds. I thought it would be a nice rifle to carry on a walk. I do not want to wound any animals I like them to drop in the middle of a road if possible. I just wondered what the potential energy this round would have at that distance compared to a common deer caliber. As far as exspense, if the cartridges were the most expensive part of a hunt I would be a happy guy! Thanks for the input.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • paboogerpabooger Member Posts: 13,953
    edited November -1
    I too have one of these, and you are right they are extremly accurate and fun to shoot. Picked up a 30 round clip for mine. Just use it for plinking as it is illegal to hunt big game in Pa. with a Semi Auto Rifle!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • robsgunsrobsguns Member Posts: 4,581 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Ok, lets compare a 9mm to a .357, cause people say you can hunt with a 357 for deer, right? 9mm (Hornady Book) 147 gr. HP/XTP vel. is 1000fps. energy at 100 yds. is 275 ft. lbs. Hmmm... not good.

    357- 140 gr. bullet HP/XTP again, vel. 1600 fps, energy at 100 yds. is 497 ft. lbs. Hmmm... not so good either, but 1.8 times greater energy than the 9mm.

    Conclusion, neither is a 100 yd. deer gun. Neither looks that good even at 50 yds., with these bullets, and the 357 has more energy at 100 yds. than the 9mm does at the muzzle with these bullets, actually the 9mm only has 326 ft. lbs. at the muzzle.

    Now lets play devil's advocate once again. The 38 special, 140 gr. HP/XTP bullet as the above 357 bullet, at the muzzle only has 281 ft. lbs. of energy. Its a known killer of a man, if bullet placement is right. Thats only 6 ft. lbs. different than the 9mm bullet had at 100 yds. Anyone here think that is enough different to make you feel any better about standing in front of a 38 special at the muzzle, as opposed to a 9mm at 100 yds.?? Will the deer know a difference? Would you, if hungry, and the situation dictated, try shooting a deer at a distance of say 1 yd. with a .38 special and feel fairly certain it would die pretty quick from its wound, so that you wouldnt have to track it far? If you answer yes to that last question, then you should also answer yes to shooting a deer at 100 yds. with an accuate 9mm. WA LA, logic at its best, woo hoo!!!! BUT!! Thats just me.

    SSgt Ryan E. Roberts, USMC
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • William81William81 Member Posts: 25,499 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    We have handgun season here in Illinois and I have seen many wounded deer running around that were shot with .44 Magnums and .357 Magnums.
    Illinois has some large deer, but during handgun season you can only shoot does or antlered deer with antlers under 4".

    I guess that a near perfect shot with a 9mm would kill a Whitetail, I just do not think it is the cleanest way to get the job done. That is why I said that you had better plan on trailing whatever you shoot.
    JMHO

    Guns only have two enemies: Rust and Liberals....
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • BoomerangBoomerang Member Posts: 4,513
    edited November -1
    Ryan - That's pretty good logic except for one thing, the "humane kill factor". I too looked up the data and ran several bullet weights and loads. It appears that at about 100 yards the 9mm will generate, on average, about 250 ft.lbs. of energy. BTW, I put "man" in the varmint category when it comes to killing. We are simply a fragile species, with emotional baggage. Deer on the other hand are a much heartier species with no emotional baggage. It would take much more enregy to dipatch them with a humane resolve.

    I do agree with you in that if a 9mm was all I had, and it was an issue of survival, then yes I would use what ever I had to accomplish the task at hand.

    Lastly, yes a 9mm can and will kill an animal, but for me the larger question/issue should be; Is this a preferred caliber to accomplish the humane kill of a medium game animal? For me the answer is no, no mattter how accurate it is. I feel the same way about using a .22LR to kill deer.

    Boomer




    "Success is to be measured not so much by the position that one has reached in life as it is by the obstacles which one has overcome while trying to succeed."NRA Life Member
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • robsgunsrobsguns Member Posts: 4,581 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Boomer,
    Dont get me wrong, I'm not an advocate of hunting any deer with a 9mm, just passing time looking up some numbers, and passing around some random thoughts. As far as I know, it would be illegal in any state I've hunted in, even if the handgun round is in a rifle, it is still illegal if smaller than a 357 in most states I know of. NC doesnt even allow any muzzle loader handguns, period, just found that out. Michigan, and Missouri dont allow anything smaller than .357, I dont think CA does either, but not sure. NC breaks it down into the length of the brass case, diameter of bullet, I was pleasantly surprised to see their thoroughness in covering this aspect of their laws on cartridge use in hunting.

    SSgt Ryan E. Roberts, USMC
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • BoomerangBoomerang Member Posts: 4,513
    edited November -1
    Ryan - I know, you are one of the sane ones on the board. I just like passing the time with members I respect. Like you I have a .454 Casull, and .41 Mag, if I need to go that route. BTW, believe it or not, here in Tennessee the limiting factor is only barrel length for handgun, and the .243 caliber for a rifle. I don't believe there are any energy requirements on the cartridges. Maybe they should start thinking about modifying the rules, what do you think?

    Boomer

    "Success is to be measured not so much by the position that one has reached in life as it is by the obstacles which one has overcome while trying to succeed."NRA Life Member
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • IconoclastIconoclast Member Posts: 10,515 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    One other item not addressed (as far as I can see) is the fact that cartridges intended for hunting have bullets intended for that purpose. I've never heard of a 9mmP (or .357, for that matter) built for this. Doesn't mean that the usual loadings would not work, only that there are better pills - which I believe come in better bottles - for the job. Back before I was chased out of the woods by the weekend Hawkeyes, I used a .44 Mag *carbine* which I found to be plenty adequate to the task - but I limited my shots to 50 yds or so . . . not that this was a hardship in these woods, where visibility is often 35 yards or less.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • BoomerangBoomerang Member Posts: 4,513
    edited November -1
    Good point Icono. Corbon makes hunting loads for the .357 Mag. They are real slammers.


    Caliber Bullet Wt/Design Velocity/Energy Bl.Length
    357 Magnum 180gr. Bonded-Core SP 1265fps/640ft/lbs 4.00in
    357 Magnum 200gr Hard Cast 1200fps/640ft/lbs 4.00in


    "Success is to be measured not so much by the position that one has reached in life as it is by the obstacles which one has overcome while trying to succeed."NRA Life Member

    Edited by - Boomerang on 09/09/2002 22:42:09

    Edited by - Boomerang on 09/09/2002 22:52:24
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • robsgunsrobsguns Member Posts: 4,581 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Boomer,
    I'm not sure about modifying the rules. Some rules should only apply to certain individuals, while it wouldnt make sense to apply the same rule to others. For instance. I could cleanly take a deer with a .22long rifle, but I'd do it when only presented with the right shot, which could be debated, but thats not the issue, while others would take a shot with a .22 long rifle no matter how the deer presented itself, if it were legal to hunt with one for deer. That is why I tend to be against putting further restriction on caliber use when it comes to hunting. NC, I've been reading the regs. lately, even has regs. on the width of the cutting edge on an arrow for bow hunting. Now thats pretty exact standards, and I dont fault them at all for that, but you have to wonder if its based on good field results info. or just some preconceived notions of what will kill a deer and what wont. The same could be said for further restrictions on calibers for hunting certain species, see what I mean?? Basically I think the restrictions are put into effect because of stupid people taking shots in a manner totally inappropriate to the range, angle, and ability to place a shot accurately, which isnt fair to the guy who waits for the right angle, shot, and practices regularly all year long, and can put a bullet into the eye of a fly at 20 yds, be it with a gun or a bow. Taking all this into consideration, it even makes no difference what the caliber is if the shot is not where it belongs, which is really the issue. Maybe instead of caliber restrictions, we should have accuracy tests, which would really make the deer a lot safer, because for those that cant shoot worth a darn, we could put range restrictions on them. 'You sir, cant shoot your way out of the inside of a barn. You may shoot at nothing further from your body than 10 yds., must be accompanied by a PH, and provide evidence of the kill being within legal range for your ability through the use of a video, provided at your own expense'!! He, he, he. Now I bet you that fella will start practicing eh?? By next season he'll be able to shoot so well he could use any caliber he chose!!

    SSgt Ryan E. Roberts, USMC
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • groundhog devastationgroundhog devastation Member Posts: 4,495
    edited November -1
    Sarge, Is the 30 Carbine allowed in NC for deer? They're legal here in VA and between the 9mm and the 30 Carbine I would probabbly choose the 9mm! That is a very moot point though because I would never take either one on a deer hunt!! I'd rather have the 17HMR! It will turn the lights out with an eyeball shot at 100 yards! Haven't tried the old standby neck shot yet. That's the next test! GHD
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • robsgunsrobsguns Member Posts: 4,581 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    GHD,
    I'd have to research that a bit, not tonight, its bed time. They break it down into straight wall cases and the length they have to be, and bottle neck cases, and the length they have to be, really well, I'll check.

    SSgt Ryan E. Roberts, USMC
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • BoomerangBoomerang Member Posts: 4,513
    edited November -1
    Ryan - I think you hit the nail on the head.

    quote: Basically I think the restrictions are put into effect because of stupid people taking shots in a manner totally inappropriate to the range, angle, and ability to place a shot accurately

    Hmmm. Accuracy tests! You may have something there.

    Boomer

    "Success is to be measured not so much by the position that one has reached in life as it is by the obstacles which one has overcome while trying to succeed."NRA Life Member
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • 218Beekeep218Beekeep Member Posts: 3,033
    edited November -1
    Boomer,yer gittin` soft on us!

    Just tell the guy
    to * a real gun,
    that shoots real buddits!

    Doesen`t anybody like bees?

    .218
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • BoomerangBoomerang Member Posts: 4,513
    edited November -1
    Dang, There goes that buzzin sound again.

    Hey Marty - We were needing your help on a different topic. Is it legal to hunt Key deer anymore down you way?

    "Success is to be measured not so much by the position that one has reached in life as it is by the obstacles which one has overcome while trying to succeed."NRA Life Member
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • 218Beekeep218Beekeep Member Posts: 3,033
    edited November -1
    No!

    Just about the only place
    you can see them anymore
    is No Name Key,
    and Big Bine Key...before
    you get to Key West.

    They have about 95 killed
    by car every year.

    .218
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Hunter4lifeHunter4life Member Posts: 45 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    wouldn't a gun with a 16 1/2" barrel produce
    substancially more velocity and energy than
    a gun shooting the same cartridge with a 4"
    barrel?

    Hunter
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • shootinfoolshootinfool Member Posts: 219 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    How long is the barrel? That is its effective range. Knock it on the head when you reach effective range.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • BoomerangBoomerang Member Posts: 4,513
    edited November -1
    Carbine length can provide up to 40% gain in velocity for handgun cartridges; however, the .45 ACP actually looses velocity. Not sure, but I thnk the 9mm luger has about a 20% gain.

    Boomer

    "Success is to be measured not so much by the position that one has reached in life as it is by the obstacles which one has overcome while trying to succeed."NRA Life Member



    Edited by - Boomerang on 09/10/2002 08:27:45
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
Sign In or Register to comment.