Is the .32 an underrated round?

offeror

Obviously, decades ago the .32 enjoyed a great deal of popularity, particularly with European police departments. I have one, a war-era relic 1934 in good condition inherited from my granddad, a career cop in Fort Wayne from about 1926 to 46, after which he ran the "Acme Detective Agency."

Setting aside, as much as possible, the obvious comparisons to the .380, how good a defense caliber is the .32? Is anyone shooting it anymore? It comes in Silvertip, for sure. Certainly, some women could shoot it more easily than bigger bores. I believe the fellow who is giving away free guns for defense, against the laws of his state, is giving away P-32s and some ladies have taken them for defense. The .32 used to enjoy the high confidence of police and perhaps even some military in Europe, as I said. And of course the rounds available for it today are more effective than the old ball. So is it really that much different from say, .380, or much less effective than many 9mms?

- Life NRA Member
"If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878

Logansdaddy

.380 ACP is a 94 grain projectile at 1000 feet per second...the .32 ACP is a 60 grain projectile at the same velocity....but I don't think anybody will shrug off a hit from a .32 and wait to get hit with a "real bullet"

It's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it...

22WRF

Comparing the 9mm Luger to the 32 ACP and 380 (9mm short) is comparing apples to oranges.
The 9mm Luger 115gr JHP has a MV of 1300 and a ME of 423.
The 32 ACP 60gr JHP has a MV of 960 and a ME of 120
The 380 Auto 85 gr JHP has a MV of 1000 and ME 189

So the 32 ACP and 380 are close the 9mm Luger is a step up.
I do have a CZ 70 32 ACP I to carry. Knock down has never been a concern with me. Just empty the clip.



I Refuse to be a VictimGrumpy old man

Life, Liberty, and Pursuit of All Those that Threaten it

interstatepawnllc

The .32 is a poor penetrator. However it is a light and compact round that is ideally suited for back up carry. Certainly a better choice of round compared to a .22LR or especially a .25. I know several LEO's who would testify by the round as a back up but only in a +P or +P+ version.

offeror

Good points. 22W, you are giving the 9mm credit for the high end of its maximum velocity from a handgun, but I'd say you are still right, with certain loads. Perhaps the .32 is due for a power/technology upgrade. Sounds like engineers have spent lots of time on the 9 and very little in keeping the .32 up in terms of wringing out its maximum performance. My guess is that the best .32 loads are going to be a MagSafe, a Glaser, or a CorBon -- if there is one. And as you say, empty the mag. Its still bound to be more effective than a .22 or .25. Clearly it has a weight disadvantage against the .380 by somewhere between 1/4 and 1/3.

- Life NRA Member
"If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878

allen griggs

22, I am on board with you. In my long career as a paramedic, I never saw anyone get shot, but I got to the scene many times while the gunsmoke still hung in the air. So I don't know if the little .32 knocked the guy down, but he was down when I got there. I saw so many killed with the little .22lr, .25 and the .32. You get popped between the neck and the belt one time and you better start praying.

"Not as deep as a well, or as wide as a church door, but it is enough."

aglore

The 32 acp is what I would consider to be the bare minnimum self defense round. I have 2 of them, a 1934 Mauser and a CZ50. Federal does make a new state of the art personal defense load for it I believe.

AlleninAlaska

Free men are not equal and equal men are not free

22WRF

offeror, I agree
If your going to carry a 32 ACP you should keep Glaser,CorBon, or Hyrdoshocks in it. I got ball in mine right now because my favorite gun shop stays sold out of the before mentioned. He says the demand for 32 ACP is going up all the time. So I would say it is starting to get some recognition.

I Refuse to be a VictimGrumpy old man

Life, Liberty, and Pursuit of All Those that Threaten it

thesoundguy1

I wouldn't want to be shot with ANY caliber gun!

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competentone

Offeror,

I've thought of this too, how the .32 was considered a "defensive round" and was even used by police--especially in Europe, as you note--in the early 20th century.

The round seems pretty anemic by today's "defensive handgun round" preferences, but you have to remember: People were significantly smaller in past decades.

The focus on "nutrition"-- everything these days is "vitamin enriched"--and overall abundance of high caloric foods explains the "bigness" of people today.

Bigger animals require more powerful rounds.

offeror

If popularity is increasing, I would look for a popular gun to account for it, and the only new one I can think of offhand is the Kel-Tec P-32. Of course there are also batches of PPKs that turn up in that caliber. In fact, that's how I got to thinking about it today. There's a fellow here in town with an old one, with the flap holster, in .32. He wants $350 obo. Too bad I'm between jobs.

- Life NRA Member
"If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878

idsman75

I read a few years back that the most common caliber pulled from corpses was the .22 LR.

Fep1990

MagSafe puts out a .32 round that they state is: 36grain with a F.P.S. of 1,450 and Muzzle energy of 168.
the .380 is: 60grain 1,500 FPS, and muzzle energy of 300
the 9mm is: 64grain 2,000 FPS and muzzle energy of 524

Glasers are close to the same specs as above
.32 55grain 1,300FPS with a muzzle energy of 206



These both are a little spendy though, and I would have to say that I would alternate the rounds woth the Quick-Shok or the Hydra-Shocks

I would hate to get shot period. But I think that the .32 ACp would be the smallest caliber that I would use for self defense


Edited by - Fep1990 on 08/03/2002 03:56:19

njretcop

In the summer time I like to carry a small gun in my shorts. (Mrs NJRETCOP says that there is always a small gun in my shorts, but that's another story.

I carry a Colt 1903 .32 with 8 shot magazine. Since it was made in 1919, I do not feel that it would be safe to fire some of todays high power rounds through it, although it is in excellent condition.

Charlie

"It's the stuff dreams are made of Angel"NRA Certified Firearms InstructorMember: GOA, RKBA, NJSPBA, NJ area rep for the 2ndAMPD. njretcop@copmail.com

allen griggs

idsman, I saw more killed with the .22 than any other. This is partly because there are a heck of a lot of .22s out there. Still, I was amazed at how lethal the little bullet is. When shot in the torso, the.22 tends not to exit, but to bounce around inside, whereas the .44 or .38 will generally take a straight path and go right on out. Each time that little slug bounces around there is a chance that it will strike the heart, or nick one of the big arteries, or cut through the liver or the spleen. Each of those injuries is fatal if not treated promptly.


"Not as deep as a well, or as wide as a church door, but it is enough."

Nighthawk

I think it is respected for what it is.I see alot of Seecamps around and there quite expensive.(just what I heard) There is supposed to be a back list of people waiting to get theirs.Because off the great demand.


Best!!

Rugster

offeror

Heck, this turned out to be a much more decent thread than I had hoped for. rugster, Seecamps are no longer back ordered and prices have returned to normal, usually a bit under $400 and sometimes less at gun shows. There is no longer any reason to pay premiums for these guns. You can even buy two with consecutive serial numbers a lot of places now if you want to. Of course, now that the Guardian "clone" has come out in .380 there is serious competition for that configuration; the Seecamp no longer has a lock on a decent caliber in a pocket gun.

I agree with njretcop that if you have a vintage gun, I would not be in a big hurry to put the latest Federal race round in it. I don't plan to buy any hi-vel ammo for my old Mauser 1934, though I think a hollowpoint would be necessary to get any real defensive use out of it.

As for the .22 caliber, the only lucky person is the one who gets shot in the head with a .22 short, because there is a slightly better chance that it won't penetrate the skull, but zip around the perimeter under the scalp instead, than with almost any heavier caliber. Other than that, I believe those who say, hit a vital spot, and the .22 caliber can hurt you bad.

- Life NRA Member
"If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878

Judge Dread

I differ from the .380 and .32 cal speed ,many depends in the type of gun is shot from and barrel lenght ...

In the proper barrel a cal .32 can hit 1750FPS

If is the long cartrige version as Used in spanish grease guns
from 1500FPS to 2200 FPS depending on the type of ball you are using.

For a .22 just resise .223 FMJ balls to .21850 and fire them from rimfire 22 short,standard LR and magnum ,you will be surprized at what you can learn if you work with different speed powder loads .....
and barrel lenghts......

With precise calculations a 22 magnum can perform as a .223 ,reason is simple 65% of the powder in the standard .223 goes to waste !!!

A better lock system to prevent rim blowouts can be designed as to use higher pressures and better loads to equal the center fire performance.

Any gunsmith out there wants to try???

JD


400 million cows can't be wrong ( EAT GRASS !!! )

leeblackman

I always look at it this way, its better than a .25acp. You can carry a .32 in your pocket. Sure its not a real stopper, but it does spit out lead, and thats the number one rule of being in a gun fight, you've got to have a gun.

If you just curious, the number two rule is to have a bigger gun than your opponent...

If I'm wrong please correct me, I won't be offended.

The sound of a 12 gauge pump clears a house fatser than Rosie O eats a Big Mac !

yankee bob

Am a CWP holder,my choice of a 32 is the Beretta Alley Cat, flip barrel night sight, extra mag. with Winchester hollow points. Works for me.



Edited by - yankee bob on 08/04/2002 12:21:39

Educator

Sheer portability...the light-weight Kel-Tec p32 or the smaller(though heavier) NAA Guardian slips into a front pocket very discreetly and will be carried more than a full sized 'proper' defensive gun. A gun is only useful if you have it. The first rule of a gun fight is to have a gun. JMO but I think the Guardian is better than the over-rated Seecamp. They were great in their time because they were the first small pistol in an effective caliber but their time is gone.

"When in doubt...whip it out!"

dheffley

I don't think it's "underrated", just out of date. I still carry a Beretta Tomcat in .32 in dress clothes.

Save, research, then buy the best.Join the NRA, NOW!Teach them young, teach them safe, teach them forever, but most of all, teach them to VOTE!

offeror

I almost forgot about the Tomcat. The early ones had magazine problems (around the feed lips, I think) but they were quickly ironed out after the first gun magazine reviews of the pistol. I suggest anyone whose Tomcat is not perfectly reliable see about buying newly manufactured mags. I would have a new Tomcat (or Alley Cat) in a minute. The Guardian was once compared to several other Seecamp clones in a respectable review, none of which quite measured up in terms of things like trigger pull and/or feed reliability. But if I were to dry fire a Guardian and find I could live with the pull, I think I'd have one in .380 over a Seecamp .32 now. The Guardians are pricey for a Seecamp clone, but not out of range.

- Life NRA Member
"If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878

Boomerang

I guess the old saying "It's better than nothing!" applies to carrying a pistol chambered in .32ACP.

Boomer

"Success is to be measured not so much by the position that one has reached in life as it is by the obstacles which one has overcome while trying to succeed."