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300AAC aka Blackout
bhale187
Member Posts: 7,798
I know everyone seems to think they have the best new round for the AR15 platform, but this one looks the most promising to me. No new mags, bolt, and it works with the standard gas impingement or piston conversions. Plus everything from subsonic to super sonic is available
http://300aacblackout.com/
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/07/foghorn/ammunition-review-300-aac-blackout/
http://300aacblackout.com/
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/07/foghorn/ammunition-review-300-aac-blackout/
Comments
It sure looks a lot like this one
http://www.accurateshooter.com/cartridge-guides/30br/
It sure looks a lot like this one
in terms of ballistics? Otherwise they don't physically look alike, and don't share the same bullet diameter or casing, etc
EDIT: sorry same diameter bullet, just different casing and appearance
quote:Originally posted by bpost
http://www.accurateshooter.com/cartridge-guides/30br/
It sure looks a lot like this one
in terms of ballistics? Otherwise they don't physically look alike, and don't share the same bullet diameter or casing, etc
EDIT: sorry same diameter bullet, just different casing and appearance
I think you are right. The case head diameter needs to stay close to the 5.56 NATO to reduce the bolt thrust. The 300 WHISPER looks a lot like the 30 AAC.
http://www.quarterbore.com/300whisper/index.html
quote:Originally posted by bhale187
quote:Originally posted by bpost
http://www.accurateshooter.com/cartridge-guides/30br/
It sure looks a lot like this one
in terms of ballistics? Otherwise they don't physically look alike, and don't share the same bullet diameter or casing, etc
EDIT: sorry same diameter bullet, just different casing and appearance
I think you are right. The case head diameter needs to stay close to the 5.56 NATO to reduce the bolt thrust. The 300 WHISPER looks a lot like the 30 AAC.
http://www.quarterbore.com/300whisper/index.html
Yep, first time I heard of the 300aac was in the Honey Badger, and instantly I thought 300 whisper.
In fact, I've read that hornady 300 whisper ammo is compatable with any firearm chambered for 300AAC
I guess I'm missing something. What's it do that the 7.62x39 won't do? Re-inventing the wheel IMO.
Sub-sonic 208gr bullet. Can you do that with an AK or SKS for the same amount of money?
I guess I'm missing something. What's it do that the 7.62x39 won't do? Re-inventing the wheel IMO.
Taken from the 300acc blackout website:
"At 300 meters, 300 BLK has 16.7% more energy than 7.62x39mm. Max effective range, using M4 military standards for hit probability, is 440 meters for a 9 inch barrel, and 460 meters for a 16 inch barrel. 300 BLK from a 9 inch barrel has the same energy at the muzzle as a 14.5 inch barrel M4, and about 5% more energy at 440 meters - even though the barrel is much shorter."
More energy is more better![;)]
quote:Originally posted by Horse Plains Drifter
I guess I'm missing something. What's it do that the 7.62x39 won't do? Re-inventing the wheel IMO.
Sub-sonic 208gr bullet. Can you do that with an AK or SKS for the same amount of money?
not to mention it uses a 5.56 case, which feeds better, and only requires a barrel change, and it utilizes the same bolt and BCG, and magazine.
I'm going out on a limb here but if handloading is acceptable, you could "improve" the 7.62x39 case to less taper and sharper shoulder. This cartridge would end up being very similar to the PPC cases and would probably work through 6.8 mags. Neck length could be adjusted to give better bullet alignment/support during feeding.
There, I just developed a new wildcat to improve the performance of the AR. Just about anyone can do it with an adequate amount of monetary input. Basically the same thing the guy in the link did.
quote:Originally posted by bhale187
quote:Originally posted by bpost
http://www.accurateshooter.com/cartridge-guides/30br/
It sure looks a lot like this one
in terms of ballistics? Otherwise they don't physically look alike, and don't share the same bullet diameter or casing, etc
EDIT: sorry same diameter bullet, just different casing and appearance
I think you are right. The case head diameter needs to stay close to the 5.56 NATO to reduce the bolt thrust. The 300 WHISPER looks a lot like the 30 AAC.
http://www.quarterbore.com/300whisper/index.html
Thats because the 300AAC is a SAAMI 300 Whisper, but instead of the parent case being a 221 fireball, the parent case is a 223rem. they re essentially 5.56NATO vs 223 rem you can safely shoot whisper in AAC but it's not recommended the other way around
Thats because the 300AAC is a SAAMI 300 Whisper, but instead of the parent case being a 221 fireball, the parent case is a 223rem. they re essentially 5.56NATO vs 223 rem you can safely shoot whisper in AAC but it's not recommended the other way around
Learn something new all the time, thanks for the info
Well, yes, you could load the 7.62x39 with a heavy low velocity bullet and do the same thing. It would require a different twist rifling and might not give the accuracy that the longer necked BO/Whisper cartridge does.
I'm going out on a limb here but if handloading is acceptable, you could "improve" the 7.62x39 case to less taper and sharper shoulder. This cartridge would end up being very similar to the PPC cases and would probably work through 6.8 mags. Neck length could be adjusted to give better bullet alignment/support during feeding.
There, I just developed a new wildcat to improve the performance of the AR. Just about anyone can do it with an adequate amount of monetary input. Basically the same thing the guy in the link did.
I assume your post is directed at me.
It certainly can be done, but not for the same $$$$. Someone else has already done the hard work for you on the 300AAC. You don't need to spend all the money and time to develop and test the cartridge, have a special barrel made and fitted ( I'm sure I'm leaving something out). You just need to buy the upper or barrel and voila....you are there.
I'll be getting a 300 blackout upper. I was very interested in the round when my brother told me about them. I love that you can use the same lower, mags, and still get good output. I was going to build a completely new AR-10 for hogs, but I think this round will do great.
That would be my intended use as well.
I did the "Just Because" thing with the 7.62x39 and 5.7 but after the new-ness wears off they just end up sitting in the safe. Like most here about all I do is punch holes in paper ... some day I hope to rain havoc on some prarie dogs but if the SHTF, due to the limited availability ammo, the 300 blackout won't be my "go-to gun" anymore than the 7.62x39 or the 5.7 would be and looking back I'm glad I stopped short of doing it "Just Because" with the 6.5 and 6.8
Keep the info coming tho, I for one enjoy reading about it ... and maybe someday I will change my mind!
? otherwise, you'll find an excuse.
IE:the Whisper would have built in freebore when fired in the BO chamber while the BO might have bullets jammed into the rifling in a Whisper chamber. Yup, read that in one of the shooting industry magazines.
Regardless, I still see no great improvement over other rounds unless a suppressor is in your plan. I've seen the 7.62x39 in action on deer and while it did the job, it was unimpressive and has very limited range.
The "M4 test" that they speak of, if it's the one I'm thinking of, is rather cheesy since that would imply that their rounds with match loads can hit a man sized target a certain amount of times out of x many shots. They are comparing this to an M4 with military grade (not very accurate) rounds. That comparison stinks like rotting fish. Downloading a PDF from that page shows that it has a shorter effective range than an M4... but is vastly more versatile... what is the measurement criteria for versatile?
Another chart in the same PDF shows the ammo being compared to different guns. Of course when you compare an ammo to a gun you're going to find the ammo is going to be better since the other comparison items are locked while the one you're showcasing is allowed to change its variables.
Another comparison they made between their round and the "5.56mm" is that the 5.56mm has a 3.9 MOA at 200 yards 5 round extreme spread while theirs is .64-1.2 MOA at 100m 'average mean radius'. This kind of comparison is not legit as they are including 'flyers' from the crap NATO loads while taking an average of averages from an untold quantity of their match grade rounds.
Sticking with my opinion that this is a pistol round made out of a rifle cartridge, I think that it would probably be superior to using 9mm pistol rounds in an AR. It sits, wobbly, at the bottom of the list of things that would be fun to have, in an AR pistol that is. It is not magic, it does not do tricks, and the marketers are completely silent about how it compares to .308, besides chanting "low recoil" and leaving people to form their own conclusions.
When I started hearing about an ammo named "Blackout" I figured it was some hyped up item being marketed to the 'SHTF' crowd. This appears to be the case, and a smart maneuver. Those guys will buy anything and are always shopping. Fortunately there isn't much on the web about tactical shoe shopping... yet.
I guess I'm missing something. What's it do that the 7.62x39 won't do? Re-inventing the wheel IMO.
+1 that was my first thought when I read the ballistics.
For the versatility it offers I think it is a far better round than the 5.56 it's designed to 'replace'
As for comparing it to 308, the 300aac subsonic's velocity and energy are near identical to Lapua 200gr Subsonics. 308 supersonics are of course smoking the 300aac, but they are a much bigger round; comparing the 2's supersonics is about like comparing the 308 to the 300 win mag
125db is pretty dang impressive in my book, that's within a couple db of the MP5SD and almost 10db less than the MK23 w/ KAC used by SOCOM. Those are both pistol rounds with less energy and range than the 300aac.
For the versatility it offers I think it is a far better round than the 5.56 it's designed to 'replace'
As for comparing it to 308, the 300aac subsonic's velocity and energy are near identical to Lapua 200gr Subsonics. 308 supersonics are of course smoking the 300aac, but they are a much bigger round; comparing the 2's supersonics is about like comparing the 308 to the 300 win mag
The PDF I read showed that it did, in fact, get quieter than the MP5, when using their best can, by 1dB. They went on and on about how it was quieter than the MP5. The other can they showed was louder by a few dB. Because testing fluctuations can vary more than 1dB, I think it was pretty silly to not just grasp a fragment of credibility out of their rediculous comparisons brocure and say that it was the same as or equivelent to the MP5.
Of course the supersonic nature of 300BLK does not compare to the larger .308WIN, nor does the 9mm compare to the much larger 300BLK. Since they made the 300BLK out of .223 brass, which is outdoor carpeting in some places, I really do like the theories presented about fitting nicely into AR machinery and magazine compatibility. It appears to be superior to an AR in 9mm but not as good as rifle rounds... So where does that leave us?
The 300BLK would be a fun project for me to get into forming cases. I would also choose it over a .223 or 9mm IF I were to get an AR pistol. I just don't have a high priority for getting an AR in pistol form at this time.
I think the best use of the round is in an SBR with a can, like the AAC Honey Badger. IMO, it beats out any pdw or sbr in size and weight range. Given the fact that nothing about that configuration is legal in my state, I'll just have to dream [B)]
If the ammo was more readily available and priced closer to 5.56 I'd choose it over 5.56 in a rifle, sbr, or pistol and with our without a can.
I think the best use of the round is in an SBR with a can, like the AAC Honey Badger. IMO, it beats out any pdw or sbr in size and weight range. Given the fact that nothing about that configuration is legal in my state, I'll just have to dream [B)]
Yes, that was another smart move. Taking the piles of surplus .223 brass and turning them into something that will never become surplus will allow them to get full price for their ammo and never have to compete with uncle Sam's or mother Russia's cheap cast offs.
I agree that it would be dandy in a very short SBR or PDW and that this could bring it favor from police and detached military groups, but the ammo not being the equivalent of battle rifle or machine gun ammo will make it unacceptable for general military use.
I'd like to see more types of pistols that use it though, if the recoil is low enough that is. Could be fun to shoot in a T/C.
With the amount of data distortion they are using to sell insert this product it should be called 'brownout' instead of 'blackout' though.
Looks like 300 ammo is already coming down in price, I saw some UMC on another sight for $13 per 20
I heard someone say the .300 aac uses the same AR bolt as the 5.56. Is that true?
Yes and same magazines too [:)]
quote:Originally posted by JnRockwall
I heard someone say the .300 aac uses the same AR bolt as the 5.56. Is that true?
Yes and same magazines too [:)]
Aside from the barrel all other parts are interchangible
Buddy just called today, he got back from Shot Show, and it was all about this. Get yours now, prices going up ....
just ordered mine [:D]