and the police just blazed away!

guns-n-painthorses

To make a long story short, A few mounths ago there was a big fight at a soccer game (imangine that) in Council Bluffs, Iowa. A man was stabbed during the fight and drew his gun ( no CHL ) and shot into the ground (Conflicting reports) as the police rolled up. The police ordered him to drop his wepon, he did not speak english, and they shot him for not complying. He was killed and two other people were injured by gun fire. The police were cleared of any wrong doing as they said he presented a threat to the safety of others around him. I have no problem with the shooting, But if this guy was such a threat, why were all the injuries from police bullets. One witness said "they ordered him to stop, then the police just blazed away". Why did we not check downrange before we shot? I don't want to hear about heat of the moment judgements. This guy was stabbed during a fight that involved30 or more people. Could it be he was trying to defend himself. I think the whole thing stinks,, And I support LEO's.

instrumentofwar

forgive mi ignorance but what are "LEO's"

jeenyes

Law enforcement officers

idsman75

Dangit' instrumentofwar. I figured you would have known that after hanging out with me so much. *sigh* I heard that news up here in Sioux City as well and was utterly disgusted. Now the city is spending mega-bucks on giving their LEO's spanish lessons and cultural lessons. It nauseates me. Anyone that lives in this country should be able to speak and understand enough english to know what "drop the gun" means.

semi-auto

Note to self; stand very still and let the pistol fall quickly to the ground, while praying fervently!

timberbeast

Shouldn't be in a fight over a soccer game, or any other game. Stupidity can get you a fast dirt nap.

dakotashooter2

You've just fired a shot, you are holding a guns and several uniformed men are pointing guns at you. Duuuh!!!!!!! Language barrier or not you'd have to be an idiot not to figure out what is going on. I also don't buy the language barrier crap. I live in an area that employs a large number of migrant workers. Seems anytime it can work for their benifit they don't understand english. We even had a hispanic police office who confirmed this.[This message has been edited by dakotashooter2 (edited 12-05-2001).]

Teamblue

I have been trained in street survival Spanish by my department and though I don't use it frequently, I practice it and it is good to know. What we are up against is many would assume that the man with the gun would have dropped the gun if he had heard the command in Spanish...."Suelte la arma!!!" But we don't know that for sure. I have been in many a confrontation that I knew full well that English-speaking folks understood my English commands and did not comply. But, and this is the kicker, IN COURT it is a whole lot better from a liability standpoint if all bases are covered...and in the case at hand if the officers had given their commands in Spanish...or even if one of them recognized the man was Hispanic and gave the command in Spanish. Often times it is what the bystanders HEAR is what makes the difference. That is the world in which we operate. The bullets downrange injuring bystanders is another issue entirely. Officers in my dept. are taught at every range session that they are responsible for every round they fire from their weapon in every situation. That is one example of what makes the job difficult. If there is a threat to your life or the lives of others you have to address it to stop the threat. To do otherwise is dereliction of duty. LEO's rarely, if ever, get to pick the situations and circumstances under which they have to make these split-second decisions. Also officers cannot be trained for every situation they face. That is totally impossible. That is why the usual standard is if officers act REASONABLY based upon the situation and in accordance with their department's policy and procedure, they most often are not held criminally responsible. HOWEVER, that is the criminal side, not the civil side. That is another arena altogether. I know one thing for sure though. I will not and cannot second-guess the officers on the scene because I was not there. I did not face what they faced. We should all be glad we didn't have to.[This message has been edited by Teamblue (edited 12-05-2001).]

j2k22

So how many languages are the officers going to try before they are allowed to shoot?Will some minorities complain about racial profiling if the commands are given in Urdu or Swahili? Do the cops have to learn to tell a Chinese from a Laotian from a Cambodian from a Hmong from a _________ ?Screw sensitivity; the lingua franca of the USA is English, spoken in many dialects, but "Freeze!" means freeze, especially when backed up by the body language of a pointed gun. Remember the Japanese kid in Louisiana (?) a few years back, who got a .44 mag through the chest around Halloween time for failing to understand enough English to freeze when so ordered by the homeowner?Maybe some literature in the seatback pockets on airliners, with some basic survival-grade English phrases could replace the standard pap that is offered for reading.

.250Savage

Oh Lord, if only common sense prevailed like that more often... 'course then no one would vote Democrat.Hey, wait, that's good!

ndbilly

I'm sure my experience is not atypical. Grew up in a small town. Cops knew everyone and everyone knew the cops. Cops knew where you lived and were usually on a first name basis with your old man. You screwed up and they either took you home or called your house and had Pap come down to get you, knowing that you're a** was grass when you got home. Now, I live in a suburb of a big city. Seems that we have new cops every third day. Young folks who use the job to move on to bigger and better things. I don't know them, they don't know me. They enforce the law like automatons - little to no personal discretion. Perhaps they have none to use. As a result, there is no rapport with the community outside feelgood programs that get newspaper photos of "Officer Phil" - or "Mary" - warning the grade schoolers about the evils of drugs and alcohol. So I guess it's no wonder that incidents like the one at Council Bluff mentioned above or the Dialo (sp?) shooting in New York occur. Those guys were "going by the book" and if you go by the book you can't be wrong.

idsman75

I am so tempted right now to comment on the reservation police right now but I think I'll just hold my tongue. I cringe when my travels take me across the reservation and I am always watching my back. I know of one guy who literally had no clue why he got pulled over. The res. cop pulled him out of his vehicle and beat him senseless and tossed him in jail for the night. He was released in the morning and no charges were brought. The res. court system is just as crooked. Oops. I forgot to hold my tongue.

HAL-9000

Well the dumb boy was in a a country and couldn't speak the language. He knew it was illegal to carry a gun. He fired it in a public place. Not a bright man. Now the LEOs in this country seem to have a policy of Shoot first, Shoot last, Shoot somemore, and when everyone is dead, then ask some questions. Well the dumb man with the gun paid the price, apparently as did some of the crowd. The LEOs seem to always walk.........but the Police dept will be in court soon in civil suite from the other wounded.I wonder what would have happened if a citizen with a licenced CCW had drawn a weapon and shot the perp. I think he'd be in singsing now, they wouldn't have let him walk.laterHAL

HAL-9000

Dano, that wasn't a personel attack so please don't take it that way. I know its always the bad outcomes that make the news, and few of the good things make the news. Now I've been associated with hard assed departments and PC departments as a medical advisor. been at the sites of large number of shootings. Its strange that the same type of guy always seemes to be involved in these questionable shootings. They always say the same thing "you don't know unless you've been there!" Well..........I have been there, and in these cases where a command is given followed by emptying the service weapon seemes to be unique to one type of LEO. In this case the guy WAS armed, and had actually fired the weapon, unlike other cases where there was no weapon or no weapon was discharged, except by the involved LEO. OH crap this is draging on too much, please disregard anything I've said.laterHAL

aby80

It sure is easy for people who read something in the paper or hear it on the TV or radio and weren't anywhere near the scene of a Police shooting to start making derogatory statements about the Police. I guess they believe that the suspect should be given the right to shoot first. STUPID, STUPID, STUPID THINKING.