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death penalty

songdogsongdog Member Posts: 355 ✭✭✭
edited March 2002 in General Discussion
I want your thoughts on the subject. Just rtecently acouple people have been convicted of quad homicidesand their sentence was life imprisonment with no chance of perole. Why doesn't the gov't just shock the piss right out of these guys to save the taxpayers all that money that it costs to board these unwanted bastards.songdog
Be bold in what you stand for, careful in what you fall for.
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  • songdogsongdog Member Posts: 355 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have made it clear in many posts I am against the death penalty. Not because I am shy of punishing evil but because I am aware of the failings of our judicial system and I value the life and liberty of even one person above the cost and inconvenience of lifelong incarceration for those who are guilty.

    If I am so against the death penalty dispensed through a court of law in broad daylight, then imagine how opposed I am to summary executions carried out by alphabet agencies at the behest of minor bureaucrats.

    This latest murder sickens me to my core.
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  • Gordian BladeGordian Blade Member Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Standard arguments against:(1) It actually costs more in legal fees to go through the lengthy appeals than the money saved not caring for the prisoner for the statistical remainder of his life.(2) If you execute someone and then it turns out the person was not guilty, OOPS! If the person is in jail for life and the same thing happens, at least some sort of restitution is possible.(3) The death penalty is disproportionately applied to minorities and poor people who can't afford good legal representation.Standard arguments for:(1) Justice demands it for the worst offenders.(2) Mistakes are impossible to avoid in law enforcement or any other aspect of life. Sometimes they are fatal, like mistaken police shootings. That doesn't mean we should disarm the police. Sometimes the military kills innocent civilians. That doesn't mean we shouldn't engage in military operations when necessary.(3) An executed murderer can't do it again. Some lifers have killed guards (LeMuel Smith).(4) Minorities commit a disproportionate percentage of capital crimes. When white people commit horrible crimes they get the death penalty also.I believe the arguments for the death penalty outweigh those against.PS - One of my kids saw the movie Dead Man Walking and told me that he was so sick of the characters and the movie he was happy the guy was executed because that meant it was over.
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  • RugerNinerRugerNiner Member Posts: 12,636 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    There is also a morals clause here:"THOU SHALT NOT KILL"Not my stand on the issue, but many others.
    Remember...Terrorist are attacking Civilians; Not the Government. Protect Yourself!
    Keep your Powder dry and your Musket well oiled.
    NRA Lifetime Benefactor Member.
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  • bartobarto Member Posts: 4,734 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    IMO with the death penalty you get VERY few repeat offenders. that is the bottom line.you cannot pick up a paper it seems w/out seeing where some parolee did a repeat. & not for the first time, either.
    the hard stuff we do right away - the impossible takes a little longer
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  • hunter280manhunter280man Member Posts: 705 ✭
    edited November -1
    I'm for the death penalty, as long as there is absolutly no shadow of a doubt about there guilt. Say if they get cought with a dismembered body or something like that, now if they get convictid by circumstantial evidence, even if it is very incriminating, no. I say then give the person a right to get an aquittle, or new evidence show up latter to prove his inocence. Hard to bring a dead man back to life, whether inocent or not. As far as the thou shalt not kill, they should of thought of that sooner. I believe the Lord also said an eye for an eye...and a tooth for a tooth...
    Though I was born to royalty, I was snatched at birth, so treat me as the noble I am!!!
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  • RembrandtRembrandt Member Posts: 4,486 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    ...I'd need to do a little more research on this, I believe the anti-death penalty movement was begun by the Quakers, their belief was that man did not have a biblical right to take the life of another and criminals could be reformed for the good of society.....I'm a proponent of the death penalty, the state of Texas should be commended for how they deal with evil members of our society.
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  • Rafter-SRafter-S Member Posts: 2,173 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    This refers to plotting and committing the murder of our neighbors...for some sort of personal gain. We are also instructed to maintain (by the sword if necessary) an orderly society where we can live and worship the Lord in peace.Check out the prescribed punishment for homosexuality, among other things.
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  • XracerXracer Member Posts: 1,990 ✭
    edited November -1
    Hunter280man....your biblical quotation, "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth" is actually a prohibition of excessive revenge...(not more than) an eye for an eye or a tooth for a tooth.Gordian Blade...At one time I was a strong proponent of capital punishment.....but the recent introduction of DNA evidence has exonerated a disturbingly large number of death row inmates....this gives me pause.
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  • Rafter-SRafter-S Member Posts: 2,173 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    By the way, I support the death panalty. And I think executions should be held in public where society can witness them.In past times, hangings were public. They had to have made profound impressions on young boys as to what would happen if they strayed from the rules of society.
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  • v35v35 Member Posts: 12,710 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Gordion Blade- When you say minorities I think of Filipinos, Japanese,Vietnamese Chinese,Koreans,Mexicans,Hispanics,Jews, Cubans, Arabs and Blacks. If it is the black population that you're referring to then why paint other minorities with that brush? If it isn't why allow them to hide in the minority category.The first step in problem solution is problem identification.
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  • niklasalniklasal Member Posts: 776 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    This may sound a little strange given the fact that all prisoners supposedly hve been found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt but...I think that if it is 100% undeniable that you have the offender, fry 'em. Screw appeals, screw the lawyers, just give em quick justice. It would definetely be a strong deterent to future offenders and would save the cost of free housing for the bastards. One could argue that we are stripping them of their basic human rights, but I beleive they forfeit those rights when another dies by their hands.Still, I feel it should be reserved for a few select cases, and no those that would fall into the gray area or murder... like the abused wife that shoots her husband, or cases like that. I mean for the brutal ones we hear on national news.
    NIKLASAL@hotmail.com
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  • changdaochangdao Member Posts: 43 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    You don`t lock a mad dog in a pen `til it dies. You do the humane thing; you shoot it.
    No good deed goes unpunished
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  • S&W ManS&W Man Member Posts: 208 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    One other misnomer from biblical quotations. "Thou shall not KILL". If you find someone who knows the original languages and translates it from the original, the correct translation is "Thou shall not MURDER". MAny times thru theBible, god tells the Israelites to go kill many other people. But never to MURDER someone.
    The second admendment GUARANTEES the other nine and the Constitution!
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  • kimberkidkimberkid Member Posts: 8,858 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    v35,Careful or you'll run the risk of racial profiling or some other PC crap ...With today's technology with DNA matching, I say if there is a DNA match and not justified, take 'em out ... no appeals, no getting off because of some technicality or some other sort of crap lawyers spew about, if the POS is guilty, just a nickels worth o lead to the head ... or a $3 rope. This crap of electrocution, lethal injection and crap is just too complicated.
    Here's a thought: Let's make criminals responsible for their crimes ... ...Not blame society and the tools they use!kimberkid@gunbroker.zzn.com [This message has been edited by kimberkid (edited 03-10-2002).]
    If you really desire something, you'll find a way ?
    ? otherwise, you'll find an excuse.
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  • bullhaulerbullhauler Member Posts: 118 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    if they get the death penalty kill em then. never heard a judge sentence someone to 30yrs of prison and then death. executions should be done publicly and quickly. less money we have to pay to feed and house the bastards
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  • songdogsongdog Member Posts: 355 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    What ever happened to public stonings? Bible verses aside.I am getting to like NIklasal more and more as I read his post. You can even set aside his trigger happy finatics.songdog
    Be bold in what you stand for, careful in what you fall for.
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  • imadorkimadork Member Posts: 147 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    It seems to me that one of the reasons the government is inefficient is to guard against it violating the rights of citizens when it is expedient for the government to do so. The real life story of "The Fugitive" is just one example in which the evidence was overwhelmingly damning, but the convicted perpetrator turned out to be innocent years later. And to those who talk about god's will, I would point out the story of the town of evil people (the name escapes me), which god intended to destroy until someone wise pointed out that the life of even one innocent person in the town outweighed the justice that would be done to the rest of the town's inhabitants. Sure, 99% of convicted felons actually did it, but it's tough to know about that last 1%. Life in prison without the possibility of parole seems to be the best solution. Wouldn't it be torture for you to live decades behind bars knowing you would die in prison? Maybe they should have a choice between that and the death penalty...who knows, they might actually rather die than live 40 years and then die.
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  • niklasalniklasal Member Posts: 776 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thanks Songdog!I was starting to think everyone here hated me Can't argue with the trigger happiness, though. I can belive it.
    NIKLASAL@hotmail.com
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  • concealedG36concealedG36 Member Posts: 3,566 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have to admit I'm not sure how I feel. If somebody killed one of my family members, I'm sure I'd probably find the * and kill him myself. On the other hand, I almost think it would be more torturous (and therefore more punishment) to put some of these animals in with general population of a maximum security prison until they die. There have been a lot of good points mentionied in this thread, though, I agree with many of you.
    Gun Control Disarms Victims, NOT Criminals
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  • FitzFitz Member Posts: 258 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Actually, "Thou shalt not kill" is an error due to a bad translation from Greek. The Hebrew version reads "Thou shalt not murder".Fitz
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