Savage Striker in 17HRM

groundhog devastation

How long will it bee before Savage chambers their Striker for 17 HRM? I guess I know what will be in the safe when it happens!! Or maybe in the truck seat!! That will be an awsome little out the window varmint killer or a "I need some meat in the freezer quick" weapon!!

218Beekeep

I might even have to give in,if that happens: .218

---

Did somebody say somethin` about bees?

Bullzeye

If a very small squirrel or a medium sized mouse is your dish of choice, I say light that baby up!When will the insanity end, anyway? The notion that you can make a better round just by lowering the size of a bullet and raising the size of the cartridge is silly.Like I said before, I've got a .50BMG I necked down to accept a .10 sized bullet. Any takers?

groundhog devastation

Bullzeye, Why does this subject seem to bother you so much? We didn't have smart remarks about the gun you bought a couple weeks ago!! I pesonally don't want one of those or even care for them, but the fact is you like them and you wanted it and it shouldn't bother me 1 iota that you got it!! I don't want a 50 BMG, don't see any need for one, but if you and half the people on here want one, FINE!! The gun grabbers would love it if us "gun nuts" started bickering about whether or not something should be made!! GHD

SXSMAN

Soon are little Bullzeye may find new respect for the .223 also.(Or is that our not so little Bullzeye)Hell,Dano's away at play,what the hey,thought I'd try my hand at stirring.I find talk of ANY caliper very interesting.When I can afford one a 17 may be in my hands. Who know?Maybe they'll catch on and someone will offer them in a drilling (SxS).Whata think?

groundhog devastation

sxsman, I even refrained form mentioning anything about what was on that other thread and still got a smart a## comment!! I could have replied,"Why don't you go run five miles and drink 2 gallons of water, then you want have the energy to type a negative comment about something someone else likes!" But I was nice and didn't do that!!!

Bullzeye

Sheesh. Toughen your skin, willya?And I'm not going to suddenly love the M-16 because I'll be forced to carry one in Basic.I'd rather carry a FAL or G3 any day of the week. You can quote me on that.

Big Sky Redneck

Some things can never be explained. Why he has 0 faith in smaller cartridges I have not a clue. My user name is 7mm but I love smaller carts also. I have a couple .30's but hardly use them. My gun of choice for GH's to deer is a NEF bull barreled .223. On the farm I have killed more deer with a rimfire .22 than Bullzeye will probably kill in a lifetime. Bigger is not always better. I can't wait to get my hands on one of those .17's and when I do I guarentee a trip to the farm to do some critter shootin. I am by no means an expert marksman but I do believe if you have to have a howitzer you need to learn how to shoot. I can picture deer hunting with bullzeye, here he comes with that .50 bmg, a bandolier of ammo around his shoulder, full body armor, bandanna around his head with warpaint on his face saying let's go to war boys! Bullzeye I'm not in the military as I have made other decisions in my life that kept me from joining. I would still like to join but I don't know if it is feasable at this time iin my life. I am however a full blown army brat, both my parents served active duty and my father is still in the reserves and will retire from there. I know about the comments about the reservist not counting but he still wears the uniform. That being said as a joke I let him read your posts about how you know so much about military arms and how the '16 is worthless. I also let him see the posts about you joining and I will keep the comments he made off of here. Simply put though, he would love to have you serve under him! Aww what the heck,, in a nice way he calls you a spoiled little brat who needs to grow up. He says with your attiude if you make it through basic it will be a miracle.

gunnut

Bullnads is trying to make up for a small, well you know what I mean. If you like the 17 thats great I just may get one also. Not that I need it just would be fun to shoot! I don't need a 50bmg to say mine is bigger than yours, but if the price was right?

---

~Secret Select Society Of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets~

thesupermonkey

Bullzeye,Have you shot the M16, Fal, and G3? The reason I ask is because I haven't, but I've been very impressed with the Ar15(Closest thing I can get . From what I can tell, it's a very capable weapon. What does the Fal/G3 have over the M16?Munkey

---

Don't worry about the bullet with your name on it, worry about the fragmentation grenade addressed 'To Occupant'.

Bullzeye

You all missed the point of the post.I wasnt saying I wanted, needed, or owned a .50BMG. I was making a joke that I was going to take a .50BMG case and neck it down to take a .10 caliber bullet and sell them like hotcakes for $4,000 apiece.7mm: You've shown me the damage a hot handloaded ballistic tip .223 can do, but if I'm gonna be shooting FMJs, I'd much rather have something a little bigger.If it makes me an immature ingrate for saying I dont care for the American-made M-16 that Uncle Sam makes it's soldiers carry, I guess thats what I am.If they train you to shoot single shots anyway, then why not just do single shots with a FAL or G3A3?Both the FAL and the G3 are actually lighter than the M16A2 by about 3 lbs. They both have greater inherent accuracy than the M16, by virtue of the 7.62x51mm round they fire.When you take weight, accuracy, and fire control out of the picture, the only other reasons the US Army still uses the M-16 is the hackneyed "more ammo for the weight" idea and the ridiculously prejudicial point that it's made in the US instead of France or Germany.The ammo weight idea is silly because the FAL and G3 are lighter to begin with. Even though the ammo is heavier, when loaded, they still weigh just about the same as a loaded M16!The M-16 won the production contract largely due to institutional bias. The hardline forces in the military didnt want their rifle being made in France or Germany. It would have to be Made in the US-of-A, even if it was a far substandard rifle.Plus, militaries across the world were still marvelling over the Sturm-Gewehr and the small-caliber "assault-rifle" concept. They decided to go for the new and flashy idea instead of the common-sense alternative.I dont know on what data they based the decision that 5.56mm was enough of a bullet to do the damage that was needed, especially when you consider that you have to use FMJs in war. If they had bothered to do a test period instead of just jumping in headfirst, they likely have scrapped the project and gone to a 7.62x51mm rifle.

He Dog

Hmmm, well if you ever go to war, it probably is more practical not to have to buy your weapons from the enemy.Hunting nothing smaller than javelina, I certainly have no use for a .17, but I sure know the joy of a new toy. Have fun guys!

groundhog devastation

An just think!!! This country sent people out to fight with M1, 30 cal. carbines!! Maybe it was because if you can injure one it takes another person to take care of the injured so you have reduced the people shooting back by half!!!! Bullzeye if you make it through basics, serve your time and get out in the real world, come on down to VA and i'll show you a good time shooting!!! Meanwhile i'm going to shoot varmints with the little 17, 222Mag,25-06, 7mmMag and my favorite the great 7mmBR!!! and not miss a minutes sleep worrying about the attributes of your preferred military rounds!!!! GHD

groundhog devastation

Damn, did this thread take a turn or what?!!!

Bullzeye

I didnt say it did.The FAL and G3 weigh 9 lbs.The M-16 weighs 11 lbs. 12 oz. unloadedIf you load them, the difference in ammo weight just about equalizes. In fact, the FAL and G3 still retain a slight advantage over the M-16 in weight when loaded.The AR-15 is a fine rifle for target shooting and varminting. It has very low recoil, it takes 30-round mags, and it looks cool.But to shoot a human being with that is utter stupidity.I've never bought the "wound one, force two to carry the one" idea. That sounds just like something a slick government contracted civilian agency would think up.I sort of figured the idea was to kill the guy you shot. But I'm silly and old fashioned like that.Hey, if the only reason we use the 5.56mm round is to injure and not kill the guy, why dont we use rubber baton rounds instead? Lot cheaper, too! That'll make the Liberals happy!1)When you fight an enemy who doesnt care about the wounded, (the VC, the Somalis, the Afghans) and has a modicum of sense, they dont stop in the middle of a firefight, turn their backs to an enemy shooting at them, and drag away a wounded soldier. That's common sense.2)More often than not, since the military only uses AP and FMJ rounds, unless you get a direct head or heart shot, they poke a little hole in the guy, who runs away and chews some khat and comes back. Can you say Battle of Mogadishu? "Seemed to me like it took 3 or 4 of my rounds just to let him know I was there"3)With you having to shoot every guy that many more times, your ammo advantage soon shrivels to nothing. Shoot him once with a 7.62x51, and he dies. Quickly.4)A large deer is comparative to the weight of a human. There isnt a single hunter I've ever met who would consider using a FMJ .223 round on a deer. It's cruel, ineffective, and the deer runs the hell away.5)How many soldiers have reported not feeling the pain from a wound for some time during a pitched battle? Lots.Ever hear of "knockdown power"? If the guy isnt instantly killed, mortally wounded, or knocked flat on his rear from the "knockdown power" of the round, he will most likely either keep firing and not notice or follow instinct and run away.The 5.56mm FMJ round simply doesnt have any knockdown power. Unless it hits a bone, it goes quickly in and quickly out. The concept of tumbling only applies to either very slow slugs or JHP bullets. It doesnt work on most FMJs. They are simply too fast.Example: A .22LR will wound a man, possibly severely. But unless it's in a vital area, he will barely feel an impact, and will hardly be incapacitated.For the military's idea about wounding vs. killing to be legitimate, you'd have to assume that every single soldier the Army ever fights will be: A)Very stupid and gullible for age-old battlefield tricks, like turning tail and picking up wounded in the middle of a firefight so you can draw a bead from behind.B)So badly trained and frightened that they throw themselves on the ground and cry, and are immediately and permanently incapacitated by any wounding of any caliber, no matter how minor.And yes, I've fired all three of the rifles I've been discussing.

bhayes420

Bullzeye says: "Example: A .22LR will wound a man, possibly severely. But unless it's in a vital area, he will barely feel an impact, and will hardly be incapacitated."Dang man! I don't want to put that to the test! I might be a weanie, but it would severely incapacitate me! So go ahead, join the Army, then when you get there start your crusade against the M16. See what they do to you then!

SXSMAN

What are our choices of manufacturers of the 17 presently?(Would be kinda neat to see one built on a 10/22 platform)I'm yet to see one other than in mags.They sell out at my local store the same day they come in,many presold.

Tailgunner1954

Someone needs to study the history of the Mattie Mattel M-16 a little better, and maybe learn to read specs. Even that old war club the Garand only weighs 9.5 lb empty and 10.5 with bayonet attached fully loaded.While I don't care for the M-16, it is a design that has proven itself as a effective combat weapon. As far as wounding not killing thats not only a worldwide convention it's logistics, kill a man and you reduce the op-for by 1, wound a man and you reduce the op-for by 3 men.

He Dog

Men don't die as hard as deer either. (For the most part that is, John Wayne and Bruce Willis excepted)

whiteclouder

BZ:What particular virtue of the 7.62X51 are you talking about, the 7.62 or the 55mm. We've played this tune before boy, and you're not fluent enough to define `greater inherent accuracy', or smart enough for that matter. Tell this to your DI, he'll love it, and make you pay for your impertinence. That's when you get to Army boot camp. (yeah, right!)I'd love to walk up and put one round through the tip of your thumb. `bout as innocuous as you can get, I mean, your thumb tip. I guarantee you, son, you will pee all over yourself. And when we're done with that little experiment (and you've changed your shorts) we'll try a round through your third molar. Just one. Can't hurt that much. I mean it's not vital is it? It is? Ok, we'll shoot out one of your wisdom teeth then.For comic relief you can't be beat. Don't ever leave this board.Clouder..

Big Sky Redneck

Ok, he wins. The '16 is junk, it is worthless, it's the most unleathal and innaccurate weapon ever made. The idiot who decided to use the '16 needs to be hung. My dad will go to his CO and make a request that all of the '16s be dimantled and replaced with a more appropriate weapon. I can't believe that after all of these years all it takes is one high school kid with his magazines to tell us something we should already know. I'm selling both of my bushy's and replacing them with something bigger, stupid 'ol me thinking I could defend my home with something as puny as that! Thank you Bullzeye for waking the entire free world and letting us know our mistakes. It is appreciated. If any of you would like to purchase my bushy's so you can declare war on field mice let me know, I will sell them cheap since it is found out that they are worthless.

Bullzeye

Ah, the calm and collected voice of reason rears its head.When was the last time you were shot with a .22, Clouder?And since you're so wise and knowledgable about the 5.56mm round, why dont you tell me why YOU never carried one in battle?Oh wait. They didnt have the M16 during WWI. Sorry, I forgot for a second how truly doddering and senile you are.You've proven yourself so false-faced and bereft of any fact, that I call into question whether you EVER served in ANY armed force.You sound like more of an angry lifelong desk jockey to me, who relys on blind arrogance and fist-thumping instead of wisdom or experience to justify your arguments.It's amazing we won WWI or WWII without you there to tell the world that what we needed was an itty-bitty bullet to make things that much better. Take the .30-06, the 8mm Mauser, the 7.62x54R, and toss 'em right out the window, because angry old Clouder says they're useless!Hell, lets go back all the way to the Revolutionary War and tell the Minutemen that those big-bore muskets are WRONG! You should make a .17 caliber musket! Why? Clouder says so!I'm suddenly thankful beyond words that you never had the chance to pollute the minds of any young soldiers, like you undoubtably wish you could have.Hopefully, someday soon, no one will have to listen to your nonsense. Till then, I'll just have to put up with your insanity.It'll be a good example of why I should hopefully die before I become as embittered and venomous as you.

whiteclouder

"It'll be a good example of why I should hopefully die before I become as embittered and venomous as you."I'd say you have about 8 seconds.Clouder..

whiteclouder

BZ:I have to be honest, the bullet I took was in the calf of the leg and it really didn't start to hurt until I'd walked on it about two miles. The shoe full of blood was a nuisance, though. And your surmise about my military service is almost correct. I saw no combat. I was a weather forecaster in the Air Force. Ya do what ya can, son, with what ya got. Based on that premise, you'll make a wonderful cook, I'm sure.Now, press us with some more facts. That last batch was funny but I wait with `bait breath' as they say in lower Alabama, for the next epistle.Clouder..

SXSMAN

I can spit and piss as good as the next man,this thread is about the 17,maybe start a 5.56 bashing thread.Damn it, I want answers about the 17.

.250Savage

What, and not watch Clouder and Bullzeye engage in round 3,234,873 of their on-going b###h fight? Bite your tounge! What do you think this is, a gun forum or something?

Big Sky Redneck

Ok y'all, I started a new thread for the .223, you may continue this discussion on that thread so the real purpose of this thread may be used. Clouder, you are up on points but he is throwing a couple of hooks on ya. Show us what experiance is and go for the TKO.

whiteclouder

sxs:The .17 is a marketing strategy, designed by bean counters and slick paper purveyors of dreams.Remember the 357 super mag? Or the 6 Rem Mag or etc, etc ,etc?We, the American public, are conditioned to respond to the word `NEW' and `IMPROVED' only in the latter case, not as aggressively. There's nothing wrong with that, but just remember, that's what it is, conditioning. Now in the case of guns, we, as red-blooded Americans, NEED a reason to buy another gun (it somehow mollifies what we know to be a character flaw). The marketers have plunked to this, matter of fact, a long time ago the sniffed that out. So we get useless junk foisted off on us that we can then sell or trade for the next piece of crap that comes down the pike. And I wouldn't change a thing!There, a small post on the worthiness of the .17.Clouder..

CAndres35

has anybody shot the 17? i cant imagine what its practical use would be but there must be a niche in ther somwhere as they keep trying to market these small calibers. carl

218Beekeep

All that jabberin`...and nobody said anything about bees. .218

.250Savage

Say, has anyone considered the .218 Bee? I hear from an impeccable (and tasteful!) source that it is one heck of a round!

red dog

At gun show today ammo dealer there sold 40 boxes of the 17 rimfire. We sold the only 17 rifle that was in the show. Somebody must be going to buy a few of the guns.