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C&R License
tesla85
Member Posts: 728 ✭✭✭✭
I have a Krag rifle dated 1901 on stock. Can I ship it to a C&R License person. Thank You
Comments
Had a dealer who told me he got burnt by a C&R but wouldn't tell me how. Then he backed out of a offer he had taken on a gun, after a FFL and Checks were sent.
Of all the guns I have purchased on line I have returned one. The gun sent was not the gun advertised, even the wrong caliber. I have sold only three guns in the last 5 years and that was to upgrade guns I have in my collection
I would just like to know what kind of problems dealers have with C&R buyers.
A gun does not have to be 50 years old to be a C&R gun. There is a list of guns that the C&R license applies to in the C&R manual on line.
Do you have to keep everything you acquire using a C&R separate from what you already own?
I just wonder if it's more trouble than it's worth, that's all?
In advance, thanks for your input/help. [:)]
I also wonder about the people who insist handguns be shipped FFL to FFL. That needlessly raises the shipping costs.
When they come to get your GUNS, make sure to give them the AMMO first!!!
Please provide link if you know.
Thanks for the help
Thanks
Todd
you can get it now but cant order pistols or banned rifles.
$30 for 3 years.
When they come to get your GUNS, make sure to give them the AMMO first!!!
I WOULD RATHER BE DUCK HUNTING.
http://www.atf.gov/dcof/index.htm
Blue box on right will let you select applications and also has C&R firearms list under publications. Took me less than a week to get the info I requested. Also suggest ordering Regulation Ref Guide as it's nice to have. C&R lasts for 3 years.
the c&r license will be invalid in cali in jan 2005.
That is a completely false statement.
quote:Originally posted by Red223
the c&r license will be invalid in cali in jan 2005.
That is a completely false statement.
I WAS THINKING THE SAME THING. ISN'T C&R FEDERAL? AND FEDERAL SUPERCEDES STATE?
C&R holders in California can no longer order C&R rifles-shotguns effective 1 Jan 2005 per State Law.
AB 2080 (Stats. 2002, ch. 909) (Steinberg)
Pending availability of funding, requires the DOJ to develop a system that identifies persons who, in addition to California licensed firearms dealers, are federally licensed/authorized to receive firearm shipments in California. Effective January 1, 2005, any person who ships a firearm to a person in California must utilize the DOJ system to verify that the individual receiving the firearm(s) is expressly identified by the DOJ as a person who is authorized to receive firearm shipments. The person making the inquiry will be provided with a unique verification number that he/she must provide to the person receiving shipment of the firearm(s), who in turn must keep a record of the information and make it available to inspection by the DOJ. In the event the intended recipient is not authorized to receive firearm shipments, the DOJ system would notify the person making the inquiry of that fact (PC ?? 12071-12072).
You will find no surplus C&R dealers will want to deal with this mess, mark my words.
State firearm laws are enacted in addition to Federal...the Federal License has no State protections...ask any ffl holder here.
California jumps in and says 'Wait! we need a system to make sure this guy with a federal firearms license isn't a criminal!'
blahhhhhhh.....sorry...just puking thinking about it.
You are mistaken on both points. C&R license holders
have never been able to order handguns in California.
All handgun sales must go through a dealer for
transfer. The 1-1-03 date you quote has no relivance
to C&R holders. As far as rifles and shotguns are
concerned, the only ones that California 03's have
been able to order are those C&R's over 50 years old.
That is because there is no requirement for them to be
transferred through a dealer, whether you are licensed
or not. DOJ has not developed any procedures to
implement the law you are quoting and has no plans to
do so. The trigger that would implement the law is a
very large reserve in the DROS fund which is not
likely to occur in the forseable future.
1 Jan 2003 is when I stopped receiving them.
What is the date that everyone thinks C&R's stopped getting C&R handguns in Cali?
1 Jan 2003 is when I stopped receiving them.
It has never been legal. If you were doing so prior to 1 January, you were receiving them illegally and the shipper was sending them to you illegally. Also, you are still required to register them.
the c&r license will be invalid in cali in jan 2005.
What the.....? Someday those nuts and fruits ought to really rejoin the Union.
T. Jefferson: "[When doing Constitutional interpretation], let us [go] back to the time when [it] was adopted. [Rather than] invent a meaning [let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed."
Or just fall into the Ocean, minus a few worthy friends!
My heros have always killed cowboys.
"Right is Right, even is everyone is against it, and wrong is wrong, even if everyone is for it"
Read the bottom of this link
http://www.centuryarms.com/shipping.htm
They WERE selling us C&R folk handguns....And they just sent a reply to my email stating they are unsure if they will be selling any C&R stuff to Cali license holders after Jan 2005.
http://caag.state.ca.us/firearms/pubfaqs.htm
Read 17c.
Read 23, it says C&R holders are not limited to one hand gun per month.
So all of you that say C&R's have never been able to purchase C&R handguns in California...
Back up your theory with law, penal code, or legislation.
Here is a link to the law, Cali DOJ:
http://caag.state.ca.us/firearms/pubfaqs.htm
Read 17c.
Read 23, it says C&R holders are not limited to one hand gun per month.
So all of you that say C&R's have never been able to purchase C&R handguns in California...
Back up your theory with law, penal code, or legislation.
We never said you couldn't purchase C&R firearms in California. You can purchase all you want as long as they are transferred through a dealer in California. What I said was that you could not, and have not been able to for a long time, use a C&R FFL to have handguns shipped directly to you in California. All firearms must be transferred through a California dealer or law enforcement agency. [See PC 12072(d)]. The only exemption that applies to a C&R FFL holder is for C&R rifles and shotguns that are over 50 years old. [See PC12078(t)(2)]. This exemption is a general exemption and is not specific to C&R FFL's. The only firearms exemptions for C&R FFL's are the one hand gun a month if you have both a Type 03 license AND a California Certificate of Eligibility (COE) [PC 12072(a)(9)(x)]; and an exemption from the 10 day wait [PC 12078(t)(1)] when purchasing C&R firearms from a California dealer if you have both a Type 03 FFL and the California COE.
quote:Yeah EOD, just like all us military 'handgun importers' are supposed to register their handguns with doj......come and get them cali. Military personnel assigned to California under military orders are not considered "personal handgun importers" unless they are residents of California [PC 12001(n)(6)].
OK, there are five different cites of the California Penal Code backing up my argument.
quote:They WERE selling us C&R folk handguns....And they just sent a reply to my email stating they are unsure if they will be selling any C&R stuff to Cali license holders after Jan 2005.
If Century is or has been shipping handguns to California C&R FFL's, they have been doing so in violation of both California (See above.) and Federal law (27CFR 178.58). I'm sure that they are not doing so deliberately, but the fact remains that it is illegal.
You need to back up and read PC12071 and read what a 'dealer' is in respects to receiving a firearm in Californa.
PC 12071 (a)1(A)....anyone whom holds a valid federal firearms license is a......drum roll please.......licensee or dealer in regards to State firearm laws.
27CFR 178.58 " The holder of such a license is not by reason of
the rights and privileges granted by that license immune from
punishment for operating a firearm or ammunition business or
activity in violation of the provisions of any State or other
law"
There is no violation, or firearm or ammunition business.
Patrick Buzzard
US Army National Guard
19K-- tanker
"Strike Hard!!"
PC12072 (d)?
You need to back up and read PC12071 and read what a 'dealer' is in respects to receiving a firearm in Californa.
PC 12071 (a)1(A)....anyone whom holds a valid federal firearms license is a......drum roll please.......licensee or dealer in regards to State firearm laws.
As far as 27CFR
27CFR 178.58 " The holder of such a license is not by reason of
the rights and privileges granted by that license immune from
punishment for operating a firearm or ammunition business or
activity in violation of the provisions of any State or other
law"
There is no violation, or firearm or ammunition business.
PC12072(d) "Where neither party to the transaction (referring to a firearms transfer) holds a dealer's license issued pursuant to Section 12071, the parties to the transaction shall complete the sale, loan, or transfer of that firearm through either of the following:
(1) A licensed firearms dealer pursuant to Section 12082.
(2) a law enforcement agency pursuant to Section 12084."
Neither an out of state dealer or a Type 03 FFL holder is a licensed firearms dealer as defined in Section 12071(a)(1).
As for your quote of PC
12071(a)(1)(A), you left out a lot of pertinent information. As you said, read the section.
PC 12071(a)(1) As used in this chapter, the term "licensee," "person licensed pursuant to Section 12071," or "dealer" means a person who has ALL of the following:
(A) A valid federal firearms license.
(B) Any regulatory or business license, or licenses, required by local government.
(C) A valid seller's permit issued by the State Board of Equalization.
(D) A certificate of eligibility issued by the epartment of Justice pursuant to paragraph (4).
(E) A license issued in the format prescribed by paragraph (6).
(F) Is among those recorded in the centralized list specified in subdivision (e).
As you can see, there are 6 elements, all of which are required, to be a "dealer" in California. You only quoted one of them.
As far as 27CFR178.58 is concerned, Century is a firearms and ammunition dealer and is required to comply with all state laws and regulations as a term of their FFL.
Aside from all of the controversy. Who here has a C&R license, how much trouble is it to get, and in your opinions, is it worth it? Thanks
Patrick Buzzard
US Army National Guard
19K-- tanker
"Strike Hard!!"
Patrick,
The license is very easy to get and is well worth the cost and effort, even if you never buy a firearm. The discounts alone that you can get from places such as Brownell's, Midway, and Graff's are worth the $30.00 cost for 3 years.
See the link for a web site with a lot of pertenent information:
http://pub113.ezboard.com/bparallaxscurioandrelicfirearmsforums
You have clarified that California does not recognize a Curio and Relic License Holder as a Federally Licensed Firearm collector due to PC12071 as the State fails to recognize anyone but firearms sellers "dealers" and thus collectors or 'licensees' have no status or right to use their licenses whatso-ever in the State of California.
I'm luckily moving....feel sorry for the poor poor people left there.....No I don't....They brought this all upon themselves.