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Billboard outrage in Selma Alabama NB Forrest KKK
Locust Fork
Member Posts: 32,082 ✭✭✭✭
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/billboard-honors-kkk-founder-historic-selma-bridge-article-1.2140326
I am always so frustrated when I hear people talk about our history in such broad, uniformed ways....but the media takes the cake when it comes to the civil war.
People are in a tizzy over a billboard that the "Friends of Forrest" installed in Selma. It has a picture of Confederate General Nathan B Forrest and welcomes them to Selma. The other side has a much less grand sign welcoming Obama and marchers to Selma.
People see this as a slap in the face....which maybe, it was done just to grind at some people...but why??? I see Nathan B Forrest as one of the smartest Generals on either side of the war.
Sure....he started the KKK.....but it was NOT what it became later. In the beginning the KKK was not a race hating group of Nazi nutbags.
I don't see how some people can be so wrong on so many points.....on BOTH sides of this fiasco. I wish the people who were insulted by the sign would take the time to educate themselves about the facts instead of automatically jumping to conclusions. I also wish people who THINK they were supporting our history would do it in a less confrontational way and educate people about why they are so supportive!
I am always so frustrated when I hear people talk about our history in such broad, uniformed ways....but the media takes the cake when it comes to the civil war.
People are in a tizzy over a billboard that the "Friends of Forrest" installed in Selma. It has a picture of Confederate General Nathan B Forrest and welcomes them to Selma. The other side has a much less grand sign welcoming Obama and marchers to Selma.
People see this as a slap in the face....which maybe, it was done just to grind at some people...but why??? I see Nathan B Forrest as one of the smartest Generals on either side of the war.
Sure....he started the KKK.....but it was NOT what it became later. In the beginning the KKK was not a race hating group of Nazi nutbags.
I don't see how some people can be so wrong on so many points.....on BOTH sides of this fiasco. I wish the people who were insulted by the sign would take the time to educate themselves about the facts instead of automatically jumping to conclusions. I also wish people who THINK they were supporting our history would do it in a less confrontational way and educate people about why they are so supportive!
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http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/billboard-honors-kkk-founder-historic-selma-bridge-article-1.2140326
I also wish people who THINK they were supporting our history would do it in a less confrontational way and educate people about why they are so supportive!
I've been participating in an anti gun thread elsewhere, and have come to the conclusion the haters are going to hate regardless. No amount of rational reasoning gets through to them.
Here is his farewell speech to his men:
Civil war, such as you have just passed through naturally engenders feelings of animosity, hatred, and revenge. It is our duty to divest ourselves of all such feelings; and as far as it is in our power to do so, to cultivate friendly feelings towards those with whom we have so long contended, and heretofore so widely, but honestly, differed. Neighborhood feuds, personal animosities, and private differences should be blotted out; and, when you return home, a manly, straightforward course of conduct will secure the respect of your enemies. Whatever your responsibilities may be to Government, to society, or to individuals meet them like men.
The attempt made to establish a separate and independent Confederation has failed; but the consciousness of having done your duty faithfully, and to the end, will, in some measure, repay for the hardships you have undergone. In bidding you farewell, rest assured that you carry with you my best wishes for your future welfare and happiness. Without, in any way, referring to the merits of the Cause in which we have been engaged, your courage and determination, as exhibited on many hard-fought fields, has elicited the respect and admiration of friend and foe. And I now cheerfully and gratefully acknowledge my indebtedness to the officers and men of my command whose zeal, fidelity and unflinching bravery have been the great source of my past success in arms.
I have never, on the field of battle, sent you where I was unwilling to go myself; nor would I now advise you to a course which I felt myself unwilling to pursue. You have been good soldiers, you can be good citizens. Obey the laws, preserve your honor, and the Government to which you have surrendered can afford to be, and will be, magnanimous.
- N.B. Forrest, Lieut.-General
Headquarters, Forrest's Cavalry Corps
Gainesville, Alabama
May 9, 1865[42]
He doesn't sound like a bitter hater in that speech.
I was looking at pictures of the Selma march and I thought was a cool picture, imagine 15 cent Hamburgers
Some of our friends were going to participate in the march. They graduated from Montevallo with my husband and they are a lot different than we are, I love love love these people, but they are WAY different than me. Liberal, artist, democrats....which I don't understand HOW they think at all.
They are the sweetest people.....but they are so clueless about everyday life for normal working people. They are upper middle class and they participate in such a small circle that it is mind boggling to be around them when I am. Sipping wine, chatting about how "we need more funding to go to _______" "we need gun control" (when you ask them about what they want they actually HAVE everything they want....background checks, illegal for felons to own guns, illegal for mentally ill to own guns, they just don't know ANYTHING at all about it, but they are ready to change something.) Its hard because I do like them, but I want to sling my glass....breaking it into a million shards on the wall when they get into details about things.
Too old to live...too young to die...
Being upset with Forrest over race relations in the past is just insane to me. Its like being upset over the traffic you drove through 20 years ago every time you get in the car.
Doc....you do know the KKK was not started to be the horrible group that it became....it was actually just a club, like a frat, but he actually distanced himself from the KKK. I have read several things saying that he was "mistakenly" credited with founding the KKK, but I have not gotten into finding out who actually did if it were not him.
Being upset with Forrest over race relations in the past is just insane to me. Its like being upset over the traffic you drove through 20 years ago every time you get in the car.
About the best historical information on this issue Kasey is on an ancestry.com website. I have posted it up many times over the years here on GB in an effort to bring about a greater understanding about the KKK. Here it is again:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~mysouthernfamily/appomatto.htm
LIMESTONE COUNTY AFTER APPOMATTOXConfederate Flag
1865 - 1870
Published Fall, 1985 by historian and genealogist Faye Acton Axford of Athens, Limestone Co. AL. A copy can be secured from the McClung Collection, Knoxville, Tennessee or the Limestone County Alabama Archives.
"When you return to your homes, you will take with you the satisfaction that proceeds from the consciousness of duty faithfully performed", said Robert E. Lee at Appomattox. And afterwards, hundreds of weary, dirty, often vermin-ridden men marched homeward, heads bowed in sorrow over their dead comrades lost in a cause for which they had given everything. That the bowed heads did not signify defeat was often reiterated by those who had been there-at Shiloh, Bull Run, Salem Church, Gettysburg and many other never- to- be forgotten places of which they had never heard before being caught up in war.
The confederates reached Limestone County in that summer and fall of 1865, unprepared for the scenes which met them-the courthouse and many buildings around the square lying in gutted ruins, homes pilfered of all vestiges of former beauty and /or comfort, hunger rampart, and fields stripped bare by the occupying forces. Corn, when it could be found, was almost their only means of sustenance.
Unfortunately, they couldn't eat cotton, for five million bales of that commodity were stored in the South, which would have been many millions in Liverpool, but much of it was seized, and a heavy tax was levied on the remainder. Before a law was passed to exempt the tax in 1868, Alabamians paid almost $10.3 millions in tax. The New York Chamber of Commerce had its influence in this exemption law, perhaps, for they reported that they deplored this tax, on the grounds that "taxation without representation is tyranny," and the cotton tax was a violation of the U. S. Constitution.
Other problems arose as the veterans settled in to recoup their losses. Lands that had been cleared in the early part of the century by pioneer antecedents and mastered with pride and prosperity before 1861, began to slip away through the chancery courts and bankrupt proceedings because of high taxes imposed upon them. Freedmen, who had been good workers under the slave system, now bided their time, waiting for the "forty acres and a mule" promised them by the Freedman's Bureau from their former masters' lands. The former President of the Confederacy was imprisoned at Fortress Monroe; the government to which they had pledged allegiance was in shambles, and loyal Confederates considered it treason to identify with the Federal Government. State and local governments had little or no jurisdiction over the citizens. Perhaps the most serious problem lay in the lawless bands of black and white soldiers and agitators who seeking power and revenge for real or imagined insults. It was not long before it was apparent that some kind of protection against these outrages was imperative.
In her book, the Authentic History of the Ku Klux Klan: 1865-1877, printed in New York in 1924, Susan Lawrence Davis gives an account of these troubled times. We herewith wish to give a condensed version of her findings, made through her personal memories, interviews, and documents dealing with the period of activity of this group which began in Pulaski, Tennessee as a secret social organization on Christmas Eve, 1865. Their first ride through town, dressed in their strange garb, produced fear among the superstitious, and this fear became the weapon used by the Ku Klux Klan after it became more than merely a social lark, but dedicated itself to the protection of the innocent.
In February, 1866, Captain John C. Lester of Pulaski, visited Lawrence Ripley Davis, father of Susan Davis, in Athens. There was a rumor that white children would be forced by bayonet to attend a school in the Baptist church in Athens which had been opened for Negroes by J. W. Alvord of the Freedmen's Bureau. Mrs. Jane Hamilton Childs, who had saved the Female Institute from the torch by her Northern sentiments, persuaded the commanding officer not to carry out this threat. She had lived among the Southern people long enough to know that they were far from being ready for such a drastic departure from tradition.
Following this favorable talk between Lester and Davis, Editor Frank McCord of the Pulaski Citizen and Grand Cyclops of the Pulaski organization, met with a group of leading citizens at "The Cove," three miles from Athens. Charter members attending were: Dr. Nicholas Davis Richardson (elected Grand Cyclops of the Athens den), R. A. McClellan, Robert Donnell, Fortunatus Wood, Paul L. Jones, John B. Floyd, T. J. Cox, R. B. Mason, William Richardson, James B. Richardson, W. R. Pryor, William Cass Nichols, Thomas Carter, Henry J. Pepin, and Edwin R. Richardson.
Edwin Tanner, son of Peterson Tanner and ex-Confederate soldier living three miles from Athens, was called out of his house, dragged into the road and shot by Negro soldiers in August 1866. It so happened that Tanner's wife had just given birth to a son and Dr. N. D. Richardson, the attending physician, was there. The doctor sent a faithful ex-salve of his to Athens to notify the Ku Klux Klan members to come and capture the murderers. Plantation bells, signal of danger among the Klan, started ringing over the county. Sue Davis recalled that she was awakened by the bell at their home in the east end of the county, and saw her father, dressed in Klan regalia, kissing her mother goodbye. The Klan members pursued the murderers to the Tennessee River, where members of the guilty party tried to cross the railroad bridge by foot, met an oncoming train and jumped into the river. Some escaped and some were drowned. Edwin Tanner's will was probated by Samuel Tanner, Jr., on 29 August 1866.
Many other outrages were perpetrated by members of the Union League and the Loyal League, which was a branch of the parent organization. The Union League was founded in Ohio in 1862 to bolster the morale of the Union Army, which suffered several defeats during that time. The League sent agents into the South to distribute leaflets to Negroes with orders to molest women and children to the point that their Confederate soldiers would leave the army to protect them. Sue Davis recorded that a faithful slave, Alex, brought such a paper to her mother to read it to him. After he heard it, Alex declared that he would die before harming her or the children. Alex asked for a shotgun belonging to Davis, and sat at the front of the Davis house with the gun and an axe to guard the house during Davis' absence. Scenes like this were enacted all over the South.
After the post-war marriage of Federal General Jesse Phillips and Sue Davis's sister,
Virginia Davis Harris, they were often in Washington, D. C. Once they were invited to attend a meeting of the Loyal League. At this meeting, it was decided that the name of "Loyal League" should be changed to "Ku Klux Klan," and they would send more men South to spread terror. Mrs. Phillips decided to go to President Johnson, whom she had known during his short residence in Limestone County as a young man, to apprise him of the situation. Johnson later reported that it was after her visit to him that he changed his tactics of abuse of the South, and determined that that section should be fully restored to the Union. Virginia Phillips then hurried South to inform her brother and the other Ku Klux Klan members of the false Klan's plans. General Nathan Bedford Forrest, by now the Grand Wizard, called a meeting in Athens, and stationed men to patrol the roads and arrest those who could not give the very secret and authentic Ku Klux grip and pass word. President of the Loyal League around Athens, according to testimony given by Captain William Richardson, was D. H. Bingham, who is mentioned several times in the newspaper accounts. Richardson stated that the League met in an old drug store building on the corner of the Athens square.
Although the Ku Klux Klan spread rapidly throughout Alabama, the headquarters for the State were always in Athens. General James H. Clanton, brother-in-law of L. R. Davis, was the first Grand Dragon of the Realm of Alabama. Clanton was killed in 1871 as the result of a railroad dispute in Chattanooga. General John T. Morgan served from that time until 1876, when the Klan was instrumental in his election to the U. S. Senate; and General Edmund W. Pettus, a native of Limestone and later U. S. Senator, served from that time until the actual disbanding of the Klan in 1877. Bishop Hooker Wilmer, close friend of Morgan, went to England to see Judah P. Benjamin, ex-Confederate Cabinet member who became one of the most noted of English barristers. Benjamin, a Jew, was so impressed with the work of the Klan that he borrowed money to assist them in their efforts. Bishop Wilmer became the chaplain of the Alabama Klan and Father Abram Ryan, the noted southern poet, became the Chaplain for the Invisible Empire. Ryan attended at least one meeting of the Klan at the Athens home of Henry J. Pepin.
In 1871, when the health of Dr. N. D. Richardson made it impossible to continue as Grand Cyclops of the Athens den, Major R. A. McClellan took over. McClellan, who had served in Company C, 7th Alabama Cavalry under Colonel James c. Malone, later married Autora Pryor, daughter of Senator Luke Pryor. He was succeeded as Grand Cyclops by Major Robert Donnell, a veteran of company E, 50th Albama Regiment and the 22nd Alabama Infantry. When Sue Davis and her sisters attended Miss Sally Malone's school in Athens, either their father or Major Donnell would accompany them. Sue later learned that Donnell was one of the guards set up by the Klan to protect the school children.
Prior to the first convention of the Klan, held in Nashville during May 1867, Captain william Richardson, Captain John B. Floyd, and Bishop Hooker Wilmer joined Tennessee delegates in visiting General Robert E. Lee in the hopes that he would join and head the movement. Lee would not actively join, but stated that he would support it, so long as it remained a protective organization, in an invisible way. Thus, at the convention, which was held in Room Number 10 of the Maxwell House Hotel, the term "Invisible Empire" was adopted. Captain Richardson asked for, and received, Lee's approval to invite General Nathan Bedford Forrest to be the Klan leader. L. r. Davis and William Richardson traveled to Memphis before the convention to see Forrest. Richardson wished, in addition to asking Forrest to be the leader, to thank the general for rescuing him from being hanged as a spy (which he was not) in Murfreesboro during the war. J. W. Morton, once commander of artillery in Forrest's company and now Grand Cyclops of the Nashville den, administered the oath to Forrest as Grand Wizard of the Invisible Empire.
The Wizard had ten assistants called "Genii." The Empire was divided into Realms, the Realms into Divisions along the line of Congressional Districts, the Divisions into Provinces, and Provinces into Dens. At the convention, principles were adopted, stating that: "We recognize our relation to the United States government, the supremacy of the Constitutional laws thereof, and the Union of the States hereafter." They pledged to protect the weak, innocent and defenseless from the indignities of the lawless; and relieve the injured and oppressed and the suffering, especially the widows and children of confederate officers.
Forrest issued an order for a 4 July 1867 parade in all the provinces. He himself paraded with the Klan at Pulaski, then they came to Athens, not arriving at the latter place until about midnight. It was here that Forrest reenacted the tactics employed in the battle of Athens in September 1864, when by a skillful movement of his forces which bolstered their number manyfold, he tricked the defending Colonel Wallace Campbell into surrendering the Federal fort west of town. On this July 4th night in 1867, the Klan members came and went "like a wraith in the night," doing nothing to change the belief that they were the spirits of dead Confederate soldiers.
The worst period for the south came with the end of Johnson's administration. State and local offices were filled by Radical "carpet baggers," and military districts were set up. One instance of this action was in the replacement of John B. McClellan by Silas Thurlow as probate judge of Limestone County in 1868. Klan members and other citizens were incensed. At a meeting in Huntsville in November 1868, Thurlow was killed, and the Klan was blamed for it. Substantial evidence was given later, however, to clear the Klan of guilt. A Federal officer testified at hearings that the Klan was not on the side of the square where Thurlow was shot, and eye witnesses stated that he was killed by Negro soldiers stationed at the Court House.
Riots such as this furnished Washington with further reasons to tighten its control over the south. Every killing or whipping or disturbance was credited to the Ku Klux Klan. South Carolina was declared a military state after riots there, and Louisiana and Arkansas were particularly hard pressed.
When General U. S. Grant was elected to the Presidency in 1869, the South was hopeful that it would then be rid of carpet bag rule, but they were disappointed. The first Anti-Ku Klux Act was passed in 1871, and the second in 1872. Trials were held in Huntsville in May 1872, in which much evidence was brought forth, showing that the Klan was innocent of many charges against it. The trials made many in the northern states realize the serious situation in which the South found itself. A number of Federal officers spoke in favor of the assistance which the Klan had offered to them in the pursuance of law and order.
One such case in which the Klan proved of value was in the arrest of the desperado, Tom Clark, who left a wake of violence in North Alabama and Tennessee. When Forrest heard of the atrocities committed by Clark and his band of Tories, which northern papers called the work of the Ku Klux Klan, he went at once to Florence and held a meeting at the plantation George S. Houston near Muscle Shoals. Two of Clark's men were captured by Klansmen and taken to military authorities at Florence, under command of Captain DeFord, who had the men shot.
In 1868, the Radical governor of Tennessee, William P. "Parson" Brownlow, issued an order that Ku Klux Klansmen be shot on sight. During a speech in New York about this time, Brownlow was quoted as saying that he would like to see every Rebel man, woman ,and child exterminated south of the Mason and Dixon line. Such statements, of course, kept the hatred and bitterness alive in all geographical sections of the country.
Brownlow's order, coupled with the fact that atrocities were being committed far beyond the geographical range of the Klan, but attributed to them, caused Forrest to issue his only write order to the Klan on 20 October 1869. He demanded that all true members of the Klan destroy their masks and costumes. Any one refusing to do so would be "deemed an enemy of the Order, and shall be treated accordingly." It was stated that the Klan had never been the enemy of Negroes as long as they were peaceful, and indeed that they had come to their assistance in many instances. The Klan, it was stated, stood for order and peace, it was not a military or political organization, but a protective one. This order led to the popular belief, as it evidently was intended, that the Ku Klux Klan had officially disbanded, but this was, in fact, not a reality until the death of Forrest in 1877.
By that time, the difficult situation had been greatly alleviated. The "new day" that had long been dreamed of, was dawning. It was during the meeting at Houston's plantation , as described above, that Houston expressed his fervent desire that Alabama be rescued from radical rule. His old friend, Lawrence Ripley Davis, said that Houston was the only man who could defeat the Republican candidate, and that he would "stump" the state for him. Houston would win his campaign in 1874, and become the first Democratic governor to bring home rule back to the state. Davis went with him to Montgomery as his private secretary, and helped to bring about the reforms which would eventually put the State on a firm footing.
It cannot be denied that Susan Davis was highly prejudiced in her Authentic History, but it does present a clearer picture of events in those dark days. We get a glimpse of these conditions in the novel Gone With the wind, by Margaret Mitchell. It is interesting to note that Susan Davis sued Margaret Mitchell, stating that the latter had plagiarized whole pages from her Authentic History of the Ku Klux Klan in her novel. The suit was eventually dropped.
Invaluable information can be derived from the newspapers of the day, and we have endeavored to disseminate a better understanding of the times, sans magnolias, in this work. The whole story, however, cannot be gleaned from the yellowed newspaper journals, for much of the history could not be printed one hundred and twenty-odd years ago.
Following this introduction, Faye Acton Axford and Eulalia Yancey Wellden listed a collection of local excerpts from the Newspapers of the Day which tell the story of the citizens struggle. For example: Athens Weekly Post 1867;
Real Estate Sales - B. Sanders, trustee for J.W.S. Donnell, advertised for sale on 4 November 1867, the "magnificent residence in the town of Athens, situated near enough to the public square for the owner to enjoy all the facilities of town, and remote enough to have all the quietude of a country life, etc. I will also proceed to sell for cash, in the county of Lawrence, State of Alabama, on Tuesday 12 November 1867, the plantation known as the Seclusion Place, containing 2000 acres more or less.
Churches - The world-renowned Southern pianist, L. P. Wheat, gave a concert at the Cumberland Presbyterian Church.Rev. G. W. Mitchell who through the long night of war kept its fires burning and his flock together.for two years he was the only clergyman in the place. His church was used by the Federal military, for occasional barracks and hospital. When the carpets, books and furniture were mostly taken, then for quartermaster and commissary stores, until the floors and gallery were broken down, after which almost every piece of timber was destroyed - pulpit, seats, floors, windows, blinds, sills -all consumed, leaving the bare walls.
The Memphis Avalance paid tribute to the memory of Capt. Thomas Hubbard Hobbs, who died in July 1862 as a result of wounds received in the battle of Gaines Mill. "No better man, or braver soldier, fought with the Army of Northern Virginia - He gave his life for the country he loved so well, and for the development and improvement of which, he had done so much. In every sense of the word, he was a true man-as near faultless as it is possible for a man to become in a world so full of wickedness and deception as ours. There was never but one Tom Hobbs in this county"
George Donnell, a faithful and honest old servant died in October.
"For four years the souls of many of us had never wafted higher than the range of a cannon ball; our thought never reached deeper than a soldier's shallow grave; our calculations were of the comparative strength of armies, and the power of guns.but there was a little flock among the faithless-Dr. Petway, was sent to fill this station and under him and Smith a revival of religion had returned.
He did leave it early on, tried to end it. There were murders carried out by KKK groups while he was in command. Perhaps that was the reason he left. He later spoke before black organizations, promoting friendship and reconciliation.
On the other hand, reading comments from the woman who paid to put that billboard up it doesn't sound like she herself shares her idol's point of view. Thus people being upset with the billboard are likely correct to see the intent for what it is, not what its promoter claims it to be.
That is exactly my point.....why are people (on both sides) so screwed up when it comes to history? Its not like they are fighting over an impression.....these things happened, you can research things to find the truth about all of it. Why would anyone use Forrest as a "jab" in the first place.....and WHY would anyone see Forrest as anything other than a part of history????
Same reason that some people in this thread are pretending the brutality did not happen, or was unimportant, or was justified, or the Civil Rights movement was somehow "wrong", or whatever they are pretending to be able to set aside the wrongs and embrace the foolishness.
[
Locust- because they are people that their only knowledge of N,B. Forrest comes from a 3 second mention of him at the start of the movie Forrest Gump.
That, and the activist that frequent threads like this in a fruitless attempt to push the politically correct pills.
Check this out, 31 cents a gallon Gas at the Kayo station, Wow.
Looks kind of breezy there,...sign blowin' in the wind and all.
quote:Originally posted by Sam06
Check this out, 31 cents a gallon Gas at the Kayo station, Wow.
Looks kind of breezy there,...sign blowin' in the wind and all.
At least a 12 mph gust!
In the theater of race relations iconic heros and enemies may be more important than actual history.
Um...you are not really surprised black people are upset over a billboard featuring the founder of the KKK, are you? I don't care how good a general he was...
Yes I honestly am surprised, but then again bl*ck people will always find something to whine about.
Whether Forrest did or did not start the KKK is moot. He had become an icon which will be reviled by anyone who was injured by the Klan.
In the theater of race relations iconic heros and enemies may be more important than actual history.
And on the other hand, he will be idolized/respected by his countrymen, their descendants, plus other people who are now spread out all over America. Another good thing is that intelligent people can tell who the haters are be they ignorant of history or agenda ridden activists. [;)]
I was looking at pictures of the Selma march and I thought was a cool picture, imagine 15 cent Hamburgers
One should not laugh at such things, I suppose.
I must admit to it though.
Brad Steele
Because of his status, he was asked to become the leader and oversaw a group that continued to oppress blacks for around a year. He then stepped down supposedly because he could not control the unruly bunch, but perhaps also because he had lost control and things were getting too violent for him.
The irony of it all is that Edmund Pettus was also a Confederate General and was an active Grand Dragon of the KKK. From Widipedia:
'In 1896, at the age of 75, Pettus ran for U.S. Senate as a Democrat and won, beating incumbent James L. Pugh. His campaign relied on his successes in organizing and popularizing the Alabama Klan and his virulent opposition to the constitutional amendments following the Civil War that elevated former slaves to the status of free citizens.[1] On March 4, 1897, he was elected to the U.S. Senate, and was re-elected in 1903.'
It is, IMO, interesting that absent the March for equality in 1965 across that bridge, the name of a man who dedicated much of his life to keeping blacks as less than equal would be virtually unknown.
Brad Steele
Forrest was a slave trader prior to the war, and advocated for keeping the black man as a laborer after the war. He did not found the KKK, but joined it after it had been formed and had already been involved in activities designed to keep the black man in his place.
Because of his status, he was asked to become the leader and oversaw a group that continued to oppress blacks for around a year. He then stepped down supposedly because he could not control the unruly bunch, but perhaps also because he had lost control and things were getting too violent for him.
The irony of it all is that Edmund Pettus was also a Confederate General and was an active Grand Dragon of the KKK. From Widipedia:
'In 1896, at the age of 75, Pettus ran for U.S. Senate as a Democrat and won, beating incumbent James L. Pugh. His campaign relied on his successes in organizing and popularizing the Alabama Klan and his virulent opposition to the constitutional amendments following the Civil War that elevated former slaves to the status of free citizens.[1] On March 4, 1897, he was elected to the U.S. Senate, and was re-elected in 1903.'
It is, IMO, interesting that absent the March for equality in 1965 across that bridge, the name of a man who dedicated much of his life to keeping blacks as less than equal would be virtually unknown.
Very good point.
While I am not an advocate of lynchings or the KKK, I think people should put themselves in the shoes of the Southerners after the war.
Your state is destroyed, your economy is ruined and most industry and transportation is in ruins. Your land is occupied and you are not allowed to vote or even choose who will represent you.
The laws and the constitution that rule the land do not apply to you.
On top a people that were your legal slaves are now free but have nothing but that freedom. They have no way to make a living, no land or property other than what is taken from you to supply them. You have to pay them to work for you but your money is worthless.
You are less than a slave. A slave was worked but it was also taken care of.
I can see where these conditions would breed some animosity to put it lightly.
I don't think any of us can imagine what those times were like.
But they are over so why don't they get over it? Why keep wallowing in it? Get on with your life and stop being so thin skinned about everything.
How is the South supposed to remember their heritage, to memorialize their past including (as we all have) aspects that may be troublesome, if someone objects every time they do it? I don't see any great movement to rename "Squaw Island" on the Cape or to have the many New England statues of Hannah Dustin taken down. Isn't this just an attempt to sanitize the past, to make the South comport with current PC speech?
Forrest seems to have been a good man, and like all men can only be properly judged by the sensibilities of his time.
If that bothers some folks, it is too bad, but it should not be changed.
Brad Steele
I don't think they understand at all.....the movement was 50 years ago.
Its like me going to Disney and riding the Pirates of the Caribbean ride.....then saying "I'm a Pirate."
The people who marched at Selma ought to be outraged with the way the freedoms they sacrificed to get have been thrown away by low lifes and race baiters.
I would think that folks might just be a little less upset about some billboard, and more concerned with the tragedy of what has been done to the legacy of the people who fought so hard to get decent treatment for their people.
The people who marched at Selma ought to be outraged with the way the freedoms they sacrificed to get have been thrown away by low lifes and race baiters.
Numbers vary between different sources, Dads3040, but the Washington Post, has estimated that only 6% of eligible black voters turned out for the municipal elections in Ferguson, MO in 2013.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/monkey-cage/wp/2014/08/15/how-ferguson-exposes-the-racial-bias-in-local-elections/
The Daily Kos agrees.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/08/18/1322606/-Ferguson-s-election-turnout-is-terrible-by-design-Here-s-how-to-fix-it#
The sad thing, and that which would outrage those you reference is that both of these publications blame the low voter turn-out on the 'The Man' scheduling elections at a time when blacks are less inclined to vote.
The right to vote by black Americans is being suppressed by apathy, and nothing else.
Brad Steele
quote:Originally posted by Sam06
I was looking at pictures of the Selma march and I thought was a cool picture, imagine 15 cent Hamburgers
Those guys packed what looks like six inch barrel Smiths and those night sticks are a far cry from spray and tazers.
One should not laugh at such things, I suppose.
I must admit to it though.
I'm a Yankee. And by that I don't mean just a "Northerner" but a WASP from southern NH/northeastern MA whose family has been here since the mid-1600s. I grew up with a harsh view of the South, pretty much considered Confederates as traitors. I'm named after a Civil War era relative Congressman (Thaddeus Stevens) who was pretty well hated by anyone from the South and related to a US Senator (Webster) who despised the thought of separation or nullification. So, I'm not automatically inclined to cut things in a favorable way, but isn't this part of a bigger issue?
How is the South supposed to remember their heritage, to memorialize their past including (as we all have) aspects that may be troublesome, if someone objects every time they do it? I don't see any great movement to rename "Squaw Island" on the Cape or to have the many New England statues of Hannah Dustin taken down. Isn't this just an attempt to sanitize the past, to make the South comport with current PC speech?
I understand your position. I am just the opposite. My folks were with Oglethorpe and we have been here almost as long.
I have kin that fought in every war this country has had. Some went west some stayed, some came back. I have kin all over the South and South West all are proud.
I consider my heritage just as important. The south had a grievance, we lost but we are still proud.
They need to get over it, we did.
truth or lie? or lier?
muslims - good, Christians bad
muslims ok - Christians dangerous
islam, religion of peace but better watch out for those Christians/jews
islam - lying ok , Christianity teaches not to deceive
islam tells you kill others to go to paradise - Christianity teaches love your enemies.
on and on and yet its all been turned upside down in the "world" WHY? according to the Bible satan will own this world until Christ comes back to claim it. Satan is in charge here and now and that is why bad things happen to good people. Death and destruction is his business and biz is good. Take heart, he will be put out of business.
presiden on immigration, been caught MANY times on vidio contradicting himself and his supporters say so what?
Obama has learned well from the father of all lies, hasn't he? and since satan is in the death and destruction business then wouldn't islam be the perfect vehicle to perpetuate what he specializes in?
the truth shall be made a lie and the lie will be the truth. 2000 yo scriptures said it would be that way. but to some it is an antiquated book, only full of alagorical stories to scare people into obedience.
I am the way, the light, and the Truth and the Truth shall make you free.
that wasn't about TELLING the truth but is about Knowing the Truth. and that truth is
JC.
I was a heathen before 35 so I know what both sides are about and I was a much weaker person before, morally spiritually, emotionally.
it takes more to try to be Christ like than it does to say to heck with it and set your own compass and morality.
thats another truth/lie turn around. some say believing is copping out and its not.
once you decide to take that road to follow Christ its gets real hard in a hurry. His Word challenges you every single day and I fail all too often.
its much easier not to believe or it is a cop out to throw up your hands and go with the flow of this world.
ever wonder why no matter how good you have it why do you still have that hole some where inside you that just can't be filled or explained in logical scientific terms?
I was as proud as they come and surrendering to anything or anyone was unimaginable until....................
when you hit bottom or the emptyness consumes you, listen. just listen.
I know you guys that have been there on both sides, before and after know what I'm talking about.