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Non FFL Shipping Handguns Via UPS

MG1890MG1890 Member Posts: 4,460 ✭✭
edited March 2015 in General Discussion
So, if a non FFL ships a handgun to a FFL via UPS or FEDEX, and doesn't use the carrier policy mandated "next day air" method, what is the downside?

I mean, if lost, will they deny the loss?

Can they blow you in to the Government for something?

Just what can they do to you?

I well remember when UPS started the "handgun next day air" BS. It was, by their own admission, because UPS employees were stealing handguns, and next day air provides better tracking and accountability.

Comments

  • fideaufideau Member Posts: 11,895 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The shippers' policies are not law. They can do whatever they want, but there is no law involved other than you can't ship thru the post office unless you have an 01FFL. They probably would deny any loss if you didn't use next day.
    I think that is wrong however, not to give the privilege to C&R holders, it seems to penalize the ones who are really not in for the money.
  • fordsixfordsix Member Posts: 8,554 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    the differance of 30.00
  • Spider7115Spider7115 Member Posts: 29,704 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I had a FedEx clerk tell me to use "2nd Day Air" for handguns and they won't say a word. I did several times and they didn't complain. It was a lot cheaper.
  • capguncapgun Member Posts: 1,848
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Spider7115
    I had a FedEx clerk tell me to use "2nd Day Air" for handguns and they won't say a word. I did several times and they didn't complain. It was a lot cheaper.
    You may as well use Ground, it is even cheaper. You are still violating their regulations and any insurance will not be paid if lost or damaged. Plus if the gun is stolen and used to injure someone you could be held civilly liable. You chose to violate their regulations and used a less secure manner of shipment which allowed the handgun to get into the hands of an unauthorized person. It is never a good idea to suggest people violate the rules when shipping a firearm.
  • MercuryMercury Member Posts: 7,840 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I've used "Ground" via UPS several times to ship guns to FFLs. There is NO PENALTY LEGALLY if you do so. BUT, if it gets lost, they will deny the insurance claim. BUT.....they deny pretty much ALL insurance claims anyway! So you might as well save money!

    All the guns I shipped were handguns, which don't stand out like a long gun would, due to the packaging.

    Do it, save money. Take a chance!


    Merc
  • capguncapgun Member Posts: 1,848
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Mercury
    I've used "Ground" via UPS several times to ship guns to FFLs. There is NO PENALTY LEGALLY if you do so. BUT, if it gets lost, they will deny the insurance claim. BUT.....they deny pretty much ALL insurance claims anyway! So you might as well save money!

    All the guns I shipped were handguns, which don't stand out like a long gun would, due to the packaging.

    Do it, save money. Take a chance!


    Merc
    Shipping handguns is serious business. Obey the regulations.
  • nmyersnmyers Member Posts: 16,892 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Gee, do you think it's possible that the UPS or FedEx delivery guy could possibly leave the gun on the door step? Duh! It happens all the time. So, if a 15 year old steals it & uses it to ..... well, do great harm...... don't you think that there's both criminal & civil problems in store for you?

    That's why you should ALWAYS ship ADULT SIGNATURE REQUIRED when using a common carrier OR USPS.

    Incidentally, my local FedEx Office store now makes me open the package for inspection when I ship any firearm. The manager said that they had a packaged loaded gun fire at one of their stores. I attempted to get "something in writing" from the store & corporate, but both declined.

    Neal
  • MercuryMercury Member Posts: 7,840 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I was shipping to a FFL, at their STORE. I'd never ship that way to a person's house, or to a FFL who only operated part time. Also, I shipped it "Adult signature required". That way, they won't leave it somewhere.

    UPS requiring these "overnight only" shipments is a way to make more money. Plain and simple. Those items are handled by the EXACT SAME PEOPLE as ground shipments so their "it is safer this way" argument is invalid. It is just a money grab.


    Merc

    quote:Originally posted by nmyers
    Gee, do you think it's possible that the UPS or FedEx delivery guy could possibly leave the gun on the door step? Duh! It happens all the time. So, if a 15 year old steals it & uses it to ..... well, do great harm...... don't you think that there's both criminal & civil problems in store for you?

    That's why you should ALWAYS ship ADULT SIGNATURE REQUIRED when using a common carrier OR USPS.

    Incidentally, my local FedEx Office store now makes me open the package for inspection when I ship any firearm. The manager said that they had a packaged loaded gun fire at one of their stores. I attempted to get "something in writing" from the store & corporate, but both declined.

    Neal
  • andrewsw16andrewsw16 Member Posts: 10,728 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Concur. Strictly a way to soak more money out of the gun community. As for insurance, they normally fight all claims anyway. I have shipped numerous guns via UPS Ground. They have never lost one. Insurance is not a factor. I just make sure they are listed on my own homeowner's policy. I'll let them pay me and sic the company lawyers on UPS for reimbursement. It's what they live for. [:D]
  • capguncapgun Member Posts: 1,848
    edited November -1
    Both UPS and FED EX route, store, and handle next day air packages differently from other packages, providing more secure delivery and limited personnel access.
  • GrasshopperGrasshopper Member Posts: 17,041 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by nmyers
    Gee, do you think it's possible that the UPS or FedEx delivery guy could possibly leave the gun on the door step? Duh! It happens all the time. So, if a 15 year old steals it & uses it to ..... well, do great harm...... don't you think that there's both criminal & civil problems in store for you?

    That's why you should ALWAYS ship ADULT SIGNATURE REQUIRED when using a common carrier OR USPS.

    Incidentally, my local FedEx Office store now makes me open the package for inspection when I ship any firearm. The manager said that they had a packaged loaded gun fire at one of their stores. I attempted to get "something in writing" from the store & corporate, but both declined.

    Neal


    You are correct, but last week,,UPS delivered package,,ADULT sig required,,well it was on the back deck.. I told him to leave stuff there when not home,,so,,it gos as far as the guy delivering I guess.
  • mark christianmark christian Member Posts: 24,443 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by MG1890
    So, if a non FFL ships a handgun to a FFL via UPS or FEDEX, and doesn't use the carrier policy mandated "next day air" method, what is the downside?

    I mean, if lost, will they deny the loss?

    Can they blow you in to the Government for something?

    Just what can they do to you?

    I well remember when UPS started the "handgun next day air" BS. It was, by their own admission, because UPS employees were stealing handguns, and next day air provides better tracking and accountability.


    By federal law, anytime you present a firearm for shipping with a common carrier (FedEx or UPS) you have to declare it. If you show up with a box about one foot long and one foot wide and declare it as a firearm, even the most brain dead clerk is going to figure out that there is not a rifle or a shotgun in the box and will explain that company policy doesn't allow you to ship a handgun by ground.
  • He DogHe Dog Member Posts: 51,593 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I got a Service Six on GB last week. It was shipped Fed Ex last Thursday for $25 and it should arrive tomorrow. Fed Ex told him to ship it ground.
  • capguncapgun Member Posts: 1,848
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by He Dog
    I got a Service Six on GB last week. It was shipped Fed Ex last Thursday for $25 and it should arrive tomorrow. Fed Ex told him to ship it ground.
    Very unlikely that a Fed Ex employee told the shipper to violate their regulations. And if he did, he would certainly deny making the statement if anything went wrong.
  • andrewsw16andrewsw16 Member Posts: 10,728 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by mark christian


    By federal law, anytime you present a firearm for shipping with a common carrier (FedEx or UPS) you have to declare it. If you show up with a box about one foot long and one foot wide and declare it as a firearm, even the most brain dead clerk is going to figure out that there is not a rifle or a shotgun in the box and will explain that company policy doesn't allow you to ship a handgun by ground.

    Don't forget the exceptions to that notification requirement that are spelled out in the actual law, 18 USC, 922(e). The shipper notification requirement does not apply if the recipient is a member of a list of FOUR specified categories. Interestingly enough, one of the four exempted categories is FFL licensed dealers. The BATFE FAQ requiring shipper notification, and quoted by many, conveniently (for the BATFE)neglects to list any of the exempted categories. It just states the general principal and leaves it up to you to go read the law yourself and see the exempted categories. CAUTION: While the FFL recipient exception is federal law, it does not prevent UPS from having its own corporate policy requiring you to disclose the contents. If you choose to comply ONLY with the federal law and NOT with their corporate policy you will be violating UPS tariff rules, but not federal law, and they just might use that to deny coverage IF the package is lost or damaged. If you are willing to take the loss risk by shipping by Ground, then just present the VERY well wrapped, VERY well addressed, plain brown package to the UPS Ground people, pay the shipping, and walk away, no questions. Your choice is to comply solely with federal law, or comply with both the law AND private corporate rules. I can't say what is best for anyone else. Make your own choice and take your own risks. [:D]
  • nmyersnmyers Member Posts: 16,892 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Capgun is correct; both UPS & FedEx handle Next Day Air differently. Packages go directly into the "valuables locker", until the same night, when they are put in an air container that is sealed & taken directly to the airport for the midnight flight out. What they are doing is keeping the handguns from being in the open part of the warehouse where they would be subject to theft.

    Interestingly, both carriers have contracts with businesses/government that allow them to ship handguns by ground or 2nd Day Air at a low rate.

    Neal
  • MG1890MG1890 Member Posts: 4,460 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have my answer. Thanks everybody!
  • He DogHe Dog Member Posts: 51,593 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by capgun
    quote:Originally posted by He Dog
    I got a Service Six on GB last week. It was shipped Fed Ex last Thursday for $25 and it should arrive tomorrow. Fed Ex told him to ship it ground.
    Very unlikely that a Fed Ex employee told the shipper to violate their regulations. And if he did, he would certainly deny making the statement if anything went wrong.


    The exact quote waa, "A guy at FedEx says they can ship it for $25." Your conclusion might be different than mine.
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