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Overpriced used guns...
leeblackman
Member Posts: 5,303 ✭✭
I was replying to a post and got to thinking about the kind of people who buy used guns, and then the kind of people who sell used guns. And then I started thinking about how many guns I've passed up because they were overpriced as compared to the ones I bought. I remember alot more overpriced ones than I can good deals. I don't know if its just the people here in southeast Texas (no offense intended) or just the economy right now, but it seems like people want way to much for used stuff.
For example, I don't know who told him it was worth that much, but I had a guy offer me an older used Ruger 10/22 for $350. Nothing special, just an old used standard 10/22. I asked him why he wanted $350 for it, he told me a big crock of a story about how they don't make them anymore, and it was made before the assault arms ban so you can use hi-cap mags in it, and yada yada yada. I told the guy I could shoot down to Acadamy sporting goods and buy a brand new one for 119.99 and could legally use hi-cap magazines in it, then again asked him who told him it was worth that much. He rudely told me, "Then go buy one at Acadamy."
Its the same thing with pawn shops around here. For what they try to sale a used 85% condition gun for I can buy one new at the gun store. And when you try to offer them what its worth for the gun, they don't want your business.
And something I find rather funny about some of the gun owners I know. They will try to sell a gun, for more than market value. And they won't give anyone a deal on it. But after no one buys it, they go and trade it in on another gun, getting even less money for it.
Its like people just have no sense. I mean hey, we all like to have that one sucker who don't know jack, and buys a $120 gun for $350. But there just aren't that many of them, and I feel really disrespected when someone tries to take me for one.
Any comments, experiences, greevances?
Visit me http://www.geocities.com/gunsmithlee
For example, I don't know who told him it was worth that much, but I had a guy offer me an older used Ruger 10/22 for $350. Nothing special, just an old used standard 10/22. I asked him why he wanted $350 for it, he told me a big crock of a story about how they don't make them anymore, and it was made before the assault arms ban so you can use hi-cap mags in it, and yada yada yada. I told the guy I could shoot down to Acadamy sporting goods and buy a brand new one for 119.99 and could legally use hi-cap magazines in it, then again asked him who told him it was worth that much. He rudely told me, "Then go buy one at Acadamy."
Its the same thing with pawn shops around here. For what they try to sale a used 85% condition gun for I can buy one new at the gun store. And when you try to offer them what its worth for the gun, they don't want your business.
And something I find rather funny about some of the gun owners I know. They will try to sell a gun, for more than market value. And they won't give anyone a deal on it. But after no one buys it, they go and trade it in on another gun, getting even less money for it.
Its like people just have no sense. I mean hey, we all like to have that one sucker who don't know jack, and buys a $120 gun for $350. But there just aren't that many of them, and I feel really disrespected when someone tries to take me for one.
Any comments, experiences, greevances?
Visit me http://www.geocities.com/gunsmithlee
Comments
is really worth, just spend some time looking through
Gun-Broker. I do realize that prices will differ regionally
but G-B will give you as good an idea as anything else,,
It's not the number of your stars that count,,it's the size of your moon.
Guns! Guns! Guns!
There are a lot of sellers seeking inexperienced gun owners to make a quick buck. The fellow who sold the shotgun to me is dead now (natural causes), so I guess the $50 extra did him a lot of good, didn't it?
But, if you know what you want and what you are willing to
pay, then maybe you won't get hurt. I might pay a higher
price for something I can't live without, as compared to
something I just want to fill a hole in my collection. Case
in point, I just paid $500 for a Colt Detective special.
Seems way to much, till you know that it is NIB, actually
with the box, test target, and papers and dated 1930.
This will never be fired and one day when my granddaughter
is going to college it may pay for some of it. Till then I
get the enjoyment of owning it. Or maybe she will marry a rich
guy and it will be in my "estate", them my wife can sell it on
Gunbroker.com.
Later,
bud
IF YOU DON'T LIKE MY RIGHTS - GET OUT OF MY COUNTRY (this includes politicians)
Just a wandering random thought.
We only have a few special years with our children in which they desire our time, attention, and love. After that time is over, it is gone forever, and we will be the ones that desire their time, attention, and love. Make those few, short years count -
Sorry about the soap box...I just get fed up with all the fools out there and the dealers who prey on them as well.
There is a Pre-War Government Model that has been running on the auction forever, with a listing headline of "Mint" or something like that. It is a REFINISH, which the ignorant seller calls a "restoration." The asking price is several thousand, when it is worth at best no more than a new one, and probably less. This gun keeps coming up on my "watch list" and I have asked the seller to put the word "refinished" in the headline, but he has not done so. There is a post-1978 Service Ace running now that has been hard-chromed, yet the ignorant seller did not put that key fact in the headline. There is a WWI M1911 running that has been extensively modified, yet it is listed so as to imply a stock gun. The seller seems to think the modifications add to the value! Ignorant.
Ignorant sellers keep listing Smith & Wessons without the "dash" numbers. It took several e-mails to finally learn that a stainles .44 Magnum being auctioned is a M629-1 and not a M629. A pinned and recessed 8 3/8 "pure" M629, which was made only about a year, is worth a lot more than a "dash" M629 with the same barrel length.
Some asking prices that appear to be ignorant or greedy, may be reflecting the owners reluctance to sell except at a premium price. If I have a favorite piece that is worth, say, $500, I would not sell it for $500 or even $700, etc.. However, I might sell it for $1500 because I could probably replace it, and the extra $1000 would make me feel better about selling one of my treasures. That would combine my greed and the buyer's ignorance.
I have no explanation for people who carry the same stuff to gun shows year afer year and never adjust the price to reflect the market. Is it greed or ignorance, or both?
Some asking prices that appear to be ignorant or greedy, may be reflecting the owners reluctance to sell except at a premium price. If I have a favorite piece that is worth, say, $500, I would not sell it for $500 or even $700, etc.. However, I might sell it for $1500 because I could probably replace it, and the extra $1000 would make me feel better about selling one of my treasures. That would combine my greed and the buyer's ignorance.
Excellent point, Judge!
I've always come from the position that "everything I have is for sale" it's just a matter of price.
Of course if I'm offerring something for sale higher than the "average going price" I'll admit that I'm not that urgent to sell and don't mind keeping it if I don't get the price I'm looking for.
If I'm a potential buyer and someone is trying to sell at an "unreasonable" price, I just walk away--it's not worth my time arguing about the "value" of something.
One thing I learned over on eBay -- if I miss out on an item, there's always another one. Once the most desperate buyers get theirs, the price starts to drop down to reasonable. The first few items get high bids because some bidders are "must-have" people and they will bid sky high. But shortly thereafter, other sellers see what the first guys made and put up auctions for the same item - and those bids won't go as high. So if you're on GB and waiting for, say, that Seecamp, let the first few go by and you'll get one a lot more reasonable after the shopaholics get theirs. If you're wondering why we don't see more Uzis and stuff on GB, it may be out of embarrassment of what the sellers would be asking, and the fact that after the first few, it wouldn't be too long before the high bid would be down around $450 because there would be so many available. "Rare" is a relative term, and this is a big country. Over on eBay, issue number one of Famous Monsters magazine used to bring $4000. Now sometimes they bring $300 or less. See what I mean? Auctions are a good thing. They level the market. You just have to be patient, patient, patient.
The 2nd Amendment is about security, not hunting. Long live the gun shows, and reasonable access to FFLs. Join the NRA -- I'm a Life Member.
My, to wait a year to save $20! Now, that is patience. I value my time at a lot more than that. I would think a year of pleasure using the rifle would be worth more than $20.
I also disagree that guns will get cheaper after the first ones sell on an auction site. Seecamps have not gotten cheaper because there will be more coming along on the auction site in a while; they have gotten cheaper because supply has caught up with demand. While some sellers may not realize it yet after years of demand exceeding supply, it is true, and the guns now sell for retail. Apparently, several sellers still think the demand still exceeds the supply, and they price the guns accordingly. Every once in a while, a newbie will come along and pay the price, which makes the next seller think the demand is still there.
The reason Uzis bring what they do is that fewer are for sale than there are people wanting them. If every Uzi were to be offered for sale all at once, it could be that the price would come down, but that is not going to happen. Demand exceeds supply. The situation with all "Pre-Ban" firearms is that the supply is fixed, and the demand is there. If I see a gun I want and would rather have than my Uzi, maybe I will offer my Uzi at a bargin to move it quickly so I will have the money to buy the new gun, or, maybe I will offer my Uzi at a premium price because I really hate to let it go, and would have to receive a premium to do so. A quick check on the auction site reveals seven Uzis for sale, with one being a Mini, which is really rare. Several have bids in the $1000-$1100 range. Supply and demand are balancing. I paid wholesale for mine before the ban, and value having this "forbidden" piece more than I value the $1100 or so it might bring if I sold it.
The comment about AKs once being $500 and now being $300 is apparently not talking about Pre-Ban guns. Just after the 1989 ban, $300 AKs went to $1500, then settled back to about $900-$1000, depending on the particulars, where they remain. To some, a current AK without the lug and flash suppressor is just fine, but there is enough demand for pre-ban guns to keep them up in price. I do not expect to live long enough to see pre-ban guns back down to $300 again, even if the ban sunsets in 2004.
While I buy new guns when an interesting new design comes out, I buy mostly collector guns. When a nice collector-grade piece comes along, it is best not to spend too much time worrying about a few dollars, because the few dollars spread out over a lifetime will not hurt as much as the "one that got away." I have walked by a desirable piece at a gun show, thinking maybe the price was too high, thinking maybe I should not spend the money, thinking what would I rather have than this particular piece, and when I go back, someone has paid the price and has filled the hole in his collection that still remains in my collection. Then I kick myself.
In collector-grade guns, who knows what the price should be anyway? A willing buyer and a willing seller determine it, and it varies with each transaction. With some collectors, the desire to have the piece exceeds the usual market value of the piece. When I think back to paying maybe a hundred or two more for a Government Model than I thought I should have, I am so glad I did because I have had years of enjoyment out of the gun, and I could not afford it now! If years ago, I paid $600 for a $400 gun that is now worth $3000-$4000, would I have been wise to pass at the time? I do not think so.
I do not think the used car business and gun business are entirely equivalent either. While both involve pricing items so trades can be made to look attractive, there are other factors with buying a used car from a dealer that are not usually present in a private transaction, such a warranty and profit. Also, any modifications to vehicles ususally add nothing to value, and may, like guns, detract from the value.
In order for a sale to take place, the seller and buyer must each agree on a price. If you do not want to pay the price, keep on walking.
B - BreatheR - RelaxA - AimS - SightS - Squeeze
& watching those fools bid every gun up over what they could have bought it retail for. There were good deals on other items but not on a single gun.
I think one of the best and most reliable sources of fair market prices is the Gun List. Especially, when you are looking at stocks and other gun parts. Most people do not have a clue what a new stock will cost from the factorys. You can auction a stock that costs a dealer $175.00 and not get any bids if priced at $100.00 opening bid. Maybe there is not that much demand for stocks and such.
I can look in Shotgun News and know what Mr. Storefront is paying for that H&K G3 Carbine and with the $100 mark-up plus FFL transfer fees and shipping, I can buy one cheaper here in town.
I stand by what I said earlier, JudgeColt notwithstanding. I don't pass up a purchase to save a lousy $20, but on the other hand you will not convince me that I need an $800-1200 Uzi pistol, which we used to turn our noses up at on gun show tables at $450. I'm glad to hear my pre-ban AK-47S is holding its price, but other than that there's very little merit in believing auctions won't change the way the market is priced.
Everything becomes less rare when the whole country puts their cards on the table. Suddenly, you don't have the only Uzi carbine for sale in a hundred miles. You don't even have one of only two or three at the gun show. And you will have to take less for it to sell it in the environment which the auctions sites are creating. Take that to the bank. Some people who paid premium prices to own "rare" guns are going to lose some of their excess investment when they resell in the post-auction world, unless they find a local yokel who doesn't know any better. I notice there are fewer and fewer of those to prey on.
The 2nd Amendment is about security, not hunting. Long live the gun shows, and reasonable access to FFLs. Join the NRA -- I'm a Life Member.
IF YOU DON'T LIKE MY RIGHTS - GET OUT OF MY COUNTRY (this includes politicians)
I lived in England for about 10 years and the wife and I spent a lot of time ferreting out antiques. There was a carved, zinc lined mahogany wine cooling chest in an out-of-the-way shop. They wanted something like $260 for it. It was there for nearly a year. Then one day I noticed it gone and I asked the shopkeeper how he had finally managed to sell it.
"I put it up front with a 450 pound (a little over $1000) price on it and sold it the same day," he said with a smile.
Obviously, for that money, it must be valuable.
Clouder..
I've seen that happen on gun broker too.
I gun will go two or three auctions with no bites, the price gets raised and whammo it sells. Go figure
Don't worry about the bullet with your name on it, worry about the fragmentation grenade addressed 'To Occupant'.
that it is a good thing to "get in good" at a pawn shop near you. I have enhanced my collection thru a couple of pawn shops cheaply and w/quite a few firearms by doing this..not to mention making some major
bucks here and there from my pawn purchases....and I STILL SOLD THE FIREARMS AT FAIR MARKET VALUE....I bought them at such a price I didnt have (nor would I ever try) to try and rip somebody off on the price.
EX: Semi handgun bought on a 2 gun deal that the tag said $199 (still an easy $100 bucks less than the going rate)....I paid $75 for it out the door.....sold it a year and a half later for $325..still have second handgun (that I paid $75 for also) that is worth maybe $150.....& I have several guns purchased the same way at the same pawn shop(s). Arm yourself w/good info on guns, along w/a good attitude I KNOW it will pay you big returns. Remember, if a pawn shop has a tag of $300 on a gun...they probably paid around $75 bucks for it......but offer what is fair to you....& them. I just went Sat. and bought 2 "as new" rifle slings for $8.50 out the door......one sales for aprox. $24-$26 bucks everywhere, the other aprox. $20....we were all happy w/the price. If he made money at $8.50...how much you think he had in em?..not much.Remember these guys may buy half a pk/up of stuff and one item will get them all their money back they spent on the whole lot. But again, just cause you might think, or even know they just have $75 bucks in a gun that fair price is $250, and a great deal on it is $190 or so...dont insult them by offering them $150 and telling them "well hey your prob. doubling your money at $150"...more flies w/honey you know....Have a good attitude,get to know the manager and employees (first name)....arm yourself w/knowledge...and go get your good deals, there are plenty out there.............
"ANY" EXCUSE IS A GOOD REASON TO BUY "JUST 1 MORE".& VICIE-VERSIE!
I tend to see a gun as overpriced if I am not willing to pay that amount for it. In truth, it is only over priced if no one will pay that amount for it.