Leupold selling out?

idsman75

I just picked up a new .22 rifle--actually it's my first .22 which is just dead wrong but I started with the M16 and the M60 so where do you go from there? While I was at the sporting goods store I picked up a Leupold VariX-II in 3-9X40 for my .270. It was the last one they had since Leupold is discontinuing that line. I was further informed that Leupold is coming out with a "lower-end" scope equivalent to a Tasco or Simmons in hopes that the Leupold name will sell a whole ton of them so they can rake in the bucks. I predict that hunters will recognize that they aren't worth crap and Leupold will die a painful death. Has anyone else heard of this information?

steve45

I hope it's not true, if so they will be opening the door for Burris and Nikon.

He Dog

The Leupold website shows nothing about such a scope. If the rumor is correct it would seem that Leupold is trying to offer a product in each price/quality category to pick up more market share. They build scopes to make money, why would trying to make more be a sell out? I would predict that they are likely to pick up more market share and more $$. All things considered I would buy a cheap Leupold before a cheap Simmons.[This message has been edited by He Dog (edited 09-01-2001).]

gunnut

I agree with the above post, I think it would be nice if they came out with a lower priced line, and keep the same outstanding service. Kinda like Kahles etc. It would be nice to be able to purchase a "decent scope for under say $150" For the average Joe its hard to spend $400 and above for decent optics.

idsman75

That's the problem...you've already been suckered. Just because it bears the name Leupold you think you are going to be able to get a decent scope for under $150. It can't happen. Leupold is going to take advantage of their own reputation and sacrifice quality and people are actually going to think that they are going to be getting a scope that is better than Tasco for under $150. I'm sure you know what follows. They will be their own undoing.

DaRoosta

Increased competition = decreased market share. What Leupold seems to be experiencing right now is similar to what most companies are experiencing with regards to price/value issues. In the optics business, most companies are gunning for Leupold just because they have had success and experience a large amount of market share. Companies with smaller market share are beginning to chip away at their business. The perception of general optics consumers is that Leupold is a quality product. Their high standards, good customer service and tradition have built their reputation. Companies such as Tasco, Burris, Simmons, etc. are now manufacturing products that aren't so bad and customers are realizing it. It's no secret that Leupold hasn't sold as many Vari-XII's since the introduction of their Vari-XIII's and LPS models; this is mainly due to the value equation. Here's what I mean: If I'm personally looking to purchase a new scope, I'm probably going to get a Vari-XIII because the price difference between that and a Vari-XII is only about 25%-30%, yet my opinion regarding the difference in quality is greater than 25%-30% between the two models. I don't really think Leupold is selling out, they're just giving customers what they've been asking for (not necessarily the people on this board). I wouldn't be surprised if Leupold was to bring out a new line that wasn't manufactured under the Leupold name. Everyone knows when you go to the store and look at canned corn, there are 6 different brands, which are produced by a total of 2 or 3 parent companies. They're simply appealing to a different market, customer base, demographic, etc. This is kind of a poor example, but it works. Everyone's value equation is different. Sometimes you just need a cheap scope; maybe Leupold is going to try it out. Maybe it will work...maybe not. I'd personally probably look into it since I value the Leupold reputation. It seems to me like their Vari-XII line hasn't been doing so well and I don't think it's a bad idea to dump the entire line and try the low-end market, which is something Leupold hasn't tried in the past. Maybe they'll use the same technology as in the Vari-XII line, rename it and sell it at a lower price. That would be kind of nice. What they may experience if they bring out this new product under the Leupold name is the perception of their optics by the general consumer will be degraded, which is why they may bring it out under a different name. That's a tough decision for them. Rely on their name or branch out and depend on word of mouth? Advertising costs for new product lines are very expensive as well.Who knows? This is just my opinion on the subject, but I've seen companies bring out products in the price/value market segment that have had tremendous success; then again some fail miserably.

gunnut

idsman75, Hadn't looked at that angle, good call

idsman75

Thanks for you input. Old economics classes have been running through my head while reading your responses. This came to mind and to my attention when I picked up my Leupold VariX-II in 3-9X40 last Friday. I paid $229 for it. Did I get ripped off in your opinion?

Guns & Glass

Loaded curosity question....Can someone explain the difference between a VXII vs VXIII besides the power range?

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Happy Bullet Holes!

DaRoosta

idsman - the $229 price you mentioned seems to be the going price for that particular model. I've seen a few on sale recently for about $20 less, but that's nothing to worry about especially since you didn't have to wait for someone to ship it to you. The .270 you're going to mount your new scope on sounds like a great hunting rifle combo to me. My first impression is to say "no", you didn't get ripped off, but if Leupold is truly going to discontinue their Vari-XII line, maybe we'll see a bunch of these on clearance pretty soon. But, when I need a scope, that money is burning a hole in my pocket and I want it NOW! I think you know what I mean.

DaRoosta

Guns & Glasses - In response to your "loaded" question, I have an answer, but looked it up on Leupold's website to give some additional technical support. Here's what I found:"All Vari-X III models have a Multicoat 4 lens coating for enhanced light transmission (about 8 to 10% more than Vari-X II, which has lenses fully coated with magnesium fluoride)."All Vari-X III models feature 1/4 minute of angle clicks in the windage and elevation adjustments. The Vari-X II models all use a reliable friction type adjustment.""A range estimating is featured on selected models of the Vari-XIII 1.75-6x32mm, 2.5-8x36mm, 3.5-10 and 4.5-14 (both 40mm and 50mm) scopes.""The Vari-X II scope, while being an older design, is superbly engineered and still sets teh scope industry standard for ruggedness, reliability, and quality in rifle scopes.""Both Vari-X II and III models share teh same high mechanical and optical performance standards, and the same close tolerances in manufacturing for precise operation.""Both models are tested identically to meet the same rigid mechanical and optical specifications."IMHO, the Vari-XIII's have more standard useful features, are more rigid, will withstand a little more recoil before they lose their accuracy, and gather more light. I would personally go with a Vari-XII, based on pricing, if I was using a .270 caliber rifle or less and a Vari-XIII if the caliber is greater than .270. This statement is based on my previous statement that recoil can have an effect on the life of the scope. I hope these statements don't get me in too much hot water around here.

He Dog

Hey idsman take a look at bearbasin.com for some good prices on quality scopes. When I buy a scope I look for good glass, multi-coating on all glass to air surfaces and quality workman ship. Leupolds are good scopes (though I think it is cheesy to not supply caps, and have told Leupold so.) but there are many other decent scopes out there. I have a Nikon which is as good, and a Weaver Grand Slam which is nearly so, BUT in New Mexico light is seldom an issue except in the first/last 3 minutes of the day. My next one is going to be a Leica. The best optics are always going to cost a lot, but the cheap optics of today are better than the medium to very good optics of twenty five years ago.

Guns & Glass

DaRoosta,---Congrats on your reply to my 'loaded' question, you did a pretty good job. I wanted to see what kind of replies 'clicked' on the board about what is actually known about Leupold.Just to assist your reply...VXII and VXIII use the same coating. VXII's have only one layer per lens, (like early VXIII's) while VXIII's have four layers. Hence the Multi Coat 4 (MC4) saying. Better light transmission.VXIII's also have (usually) one extra lens giving sharper picture (resolution). VXII's had a two piece assembly,...the objective cone was screwed onto the tube till about '92-'93. VXIII' were/are one piece.We hear so much about Leupold, which really isn't as good as most people think when compared to some other brands, and the $$ shelled out.They just market them better.Thanks for your reply, and efforts.

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Happy Bullet Holes!

DaRoosta

I knew you had more knowledge on the subject than you were leading on, but I wanted to give it an honest effort. You're absolutely right that Leupold's marketing efforts allow them to charge more $$. The other end of it is that increased marketing expenditures translate into a higher cost to the customer. The perception of Leupold customers is they're getting a good product, which is absolutely true. Everyone wins.

bikrprchr

IMHO, I have bought several "competative priced" scopes, and recently bought a BSA Catseye to use on a Sendero I own. The optics are ok, but nothing like the VariX III 6.5 x 20 x 50 Long Range Target I ended up buying to put on it. I paid around $130 for the BSA and plan to put it on a 223 handi rifle I bought recently. I paid $750 for the Leupold, and am glad I did. As far as marketing being the hook, not so. I am about as frugal as any one person can be, I have children at home so toy money can be tight. I based the decision on hands on research, and was willing to buy the best quality I could find. I plan to try to shoot the Sendero at the 1000 yard mark. I am not saying the lower price scopes are not good in some instances, but that they could not produce the same sight pictures, at the distances the Leupold can. It was like night and day as far as picture clarity.[This message has been edited by bikrprchr (edited 09-07-2001).]

dakotashooter2

Sounds like the Burris Landmark Binoculars I just bought. $139.00 for the name $30.00 for the optics. I guess the is one born every minute!!

He Dog

As I said, with optics you get what you pay for. No one but a complete and unadvised beginner would imagine you are going to get a top of the line scope for $49. (or $100, or even $250) but you may get a scope that will serve your purpose. I have a couple of Bushnells that have given good service for 15 years, but I know what to ask from them. To keep their reputation Leupold will have to put out a scope as good as any in the price range, so I say they are not selling out or on the way down the tubes, just extending market share.If your first rifle and an inexpensive scope are good enough to get you hooked so that you learn more and save for better equipment, maybe they have done well enough. Everyone who bought a Leupold, Swarovski, Leica or Zeiss as their first scope hold up your hand please...Yeah, me too. [This message has been edited by He Dog (edited 09-07-2001).]