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I don't want to catch any flak for this...but...

Evil ATFEvil ATF Member Posts: 1,195 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited January 2002 in General Discussion
...I'm considering buying an AR. I'm interested in the Bushmaster A2 M4. It has a mini y-comp muzzle break that brings the barrel length up the the legal 16 inches, so I assume that it has a 14.5 inch barrel.My question to you gentlemen is: How effective will this carbine be at longer ranges (100 yards+)?Would the manueverability of the small M4 be outweighed by decreased accuracy from the shorter barrel?I don't have any experience with the smaller AR's, so your input would be greatly appreciated.
Got President? Evil in 2012!"They may kill me, but there will always be more like me".
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Comments

  • simonbssimonbs Member Posts: 994 ✭
    edited November -1
    First, I haven't handled one (M4). I'm in the Reserves, we're happy to have A2s.However, I assume that soldiers qualify on the same course with the M4 as they do with the A2. Distances are from 50m out to 300m. So, by using deductive reasoning, I assume again (I know, I know), that the M4 is accurate out to 300m.HTH
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  • mudgemudge Member Posts: 4,225 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Evil....can't speak for the Bushmaster but my AR has a 16" barrel and can consistently put 'em in the X ring at 200 yards. Mudge the sharpshooter
    I can't come to work today. The voices said, STAY HOME AND CLEAN THE GUNS!
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  • kimberkidkimberkid Member Posts: 8,858 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I've never bothered to put targets up at 300, but mine will ring a 12" gong all day with my 4X tri-lux ... and its for sale! http://www.forthehunt.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=2905101
    GUN CONTROL: If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention!kimberkid@gunbroker.zzn.com
    If you really desire something, you'll find a way ?
    ? otherwise, you'll find an excuse.
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  • simonbssimonbs Member Posts: 994 ✭
    edited November -1
    Nice outfit Kimber. Wish I had 2Gs to "invest".
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  • simonbssimonbs Member Posts: 994 ✭
    edited November -1
    BTW, why would you ever want to sell a setup like that? Just curious, I'd hang on to it if possible.
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  • Evil ATFEvil ATF Member Posts: 1,195 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    A very nice setup indeed, Kimber!But, if I get one, it has to be a Bushy!
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  • instrumentofwarinstrumentofwar Member Posts: 1,545 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    evil-buy it! i qualify with an m-4 on a regular basis, and it hasn't hindered my scoring (on a bad day 36/40 pop-ups, last time i qualified 39/40- that's with iron sights) and you don't want to see me shoot at a night fire excercise. it kind of takes the skill out of it when your weapon has a mount that projects an infared beam which can only be seen with NVG's. just make sure you get one with the A3 carrying handle. you can remove it and replace it with an ACOG and slap some pop up iron sights on the rail for back up.
    Rule #1: there is no easy wayRule #2: if,in fact, there is an easy way, it's mined (especially in Afghanistan or Kosovo!)
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  • instrumentofwarinstrumentofwar Member Posts: 1,545 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    one more thing evil, get a sidesaddle ammo pouch that rides on the nonfiring side of the stock. the m-4 being so light ang muzzle heavy, this GREATLY improves in pointability. an excellent little m.o.u.t. package.
    Rule #1: there is no easy wayRule #2: if,in fact, there is an easy way, it's mined (especially in Afghanistan or Kosovo!)
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  • v35v35 Member Posts: 12,710 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    From what I've read, an AR barrel having rifling less than 16"long is a mistake because it loses its'special effectiveness (above 2700fps) at short range. WWW.AR15.com can give you the poop on max effective range of the various AR barrel lengths. I believe it's about 300 yards with the 20" barrel and 150 yards with the 16" barrel.
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  • cpermdcpermd Member Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    v35 is mixing up barrel length and twist ratesI have killed coyotes and crows at 400 yards with 16" barreled ARs.The carbines have the shorter sight radius is the main problem.That is why the Dissipator is a little more accurate with irons.cpermd
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  • Evil ATFEvil ATF Member Posts: 1,195 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    What about the rifle I listed? It technically has a 14.5 inch barrel. The muzzle break is attached, making it a legal 16 inches overall.
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  • v35v35 Member Posts: 12,710 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Cpermd- No, I'm not mixed up. The Ar15 can be very accurate at extended range in low wind conditions and be effective with HP bullets on small game. The issue is that at shorter ranges the 5.56 fmj military bullets tumble after a few inches of striking flesh and break apart at the cannelure, creating two devastating wound channels. This phenomenon occurs only above 2600 or 2700fps. Below this velocity the bullet will not break apart and the wound is much less severe. Since the velocity out of a 14" barrel is about 2800fps to start with,it will fall below 2600fps by 100 yards. Since muzzle velocities for 16" & 20" barrels are about 3000 and 3200fps , effective range of the 16"and 20" barrels increases to 150 and 200 yards respectively for human targets.The numbers cited above are approximate but should be close to actual data found on WWW.ar15.com
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  • 5db5db Member Posts: 1,621 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I'll second instrumentofwar, BUY IT! Plus, get this, you can pick up a "Target" type upper and swap'em out when known distances are long. That's the beauty of the AR system, plenty of options.
    If you have one shot...Accu-Shot Website
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  • idsman75idsman75 Member Posts: 13,398 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    instrumentofwar--did you hear the story about what 13fister accidentally did to his pre-ban Colt?
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  • instrumentofwarinstrumentofwar Member Posts: 1,545 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    nope, but why do i all of a sudden have a had feeling about this?................his revenge on the rattlesnake suddenley jumps to mind.
    Rule #1: there is no easy wayRule #2: if,in fact, there is an easy way, it's mined (especially in Afghanistan or Kosovo!)
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  • v35v35 Member Posts: 12,710 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I rechecked my figures and the minimum velocity for reliable fragmentation of military FMJ bullets is 2700fps.This makes the 14" M4 w/wo flashider a very close-in fighting weapon, the 16" carbine a 100yard weapon and the 20" barreled rifle a 200 yard, max weapon.It's clearly a mistake for a combat weapon to give away the outstanding effectiveness of the 5.56 bullet (above 2700fps) for two inches less barrel and the cool look.The M4 notched barrel look can be applied to the 16"if you need to have it.Function over form when it comes to machinery.
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