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Mexico opposed to U.S. border fence

TeamblueTeamblue Member Posts: 782 ✭✭✭✭
edited October 2006 in General Discussion
Ain't this just too dang bad...

MEXICO CITY - Mexico warned Thursday that the U.S. proposal to build miles of border fence, which is working its way through the Senate, will damage relations between the two countries.

The Foreign Relations Department said it was "deeply worried" about the proposal, adding it will "increase tension in border communities."

"These measures will harm the bilateral relationship. They are against the spirit of co-operation that is needed to guarantee security on the common border," the department said in a statement.

Comments

  • LowriderLowrider Member Posts: 6,587
    edited November -1
    There's some fine government-speak.

    "Keeping the illegals out will interfere with our plans to keep the illegals out." [:D]
  • kristovkristov Member Posts: 6,633
    edited November -1
    I hope that no one forgets to leave a gate in that fence large enough to allow the once secret Texas Corridor room to pass through and an opening just big enough to pipe in all of that Mexican crude oil that we guzzel every day.
  • HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    Well...we import billions of dollars of China junk every year...so I guess the famous Kristov theory we should invite a billion Chinese over here to our fair land...hmmm ?

    My opinion...just too damn bad for Mexico...and all the weak-kneed native apologists also.
  • kristovkristov Member Posts: 6,633
    edited November -1
    You forgot to include the term barbarians.
  • HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    My bad.

    Barbarians !! [:D]
  • dlrjjdlrjj Member Posts: 5,529 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Highball
    Well...we import billions of dollars of China junk every year...so I guess the famous Kristov theory we should invite a billion Chinese over here to our fair land...hmmm ?

    My opinion...just too damn bad for Mexico...and all the weak-kneed native apologists also.

    You just don't have a clue, do you?
    Tax evasion is illegal, tax avoidance is an art form.
  • pickenuppickenup Member Posts: 22,844 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    How many miles of fence?
    How many miles of border is there?
    What a JOKE.
  • 11BravoCrunchie11BravoCrunchie Member Posts: 33,423 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    What good is a fence if there's no one around to guard it? Build towers at 500 meter intervals, closer depending on terrain, and put soldiers in the towers with orders to shoot anything that crosses the border.
  • spurgemasturspurgemastur Member Posts: 5,655 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I think I'm in the minority, here, but I believe the best course of action is to improve the Mexican economy. How many billions of dollars do we pour into the international arena each year? And how many billions of dollars would it take to stabilize and improve the Mexican economy? I belive it would take a small fraction of our international spending to help stabilize and improve Mexico.

    If we can build a nation in Iraq, then we can help to stabilize an economy in Mexico...and that would bring tangible benefits to our society.

    We have an immigration problem with Mexico, which has economic problems; we do not have an immigration problem with Canada, which does not have economic problems (even if we may have some ideological differences with that country). I draw this conclusion: countries without economic problems do not present us with immigration problems.

    I say that the fence is practically indefensible. There are others on this board who could speak to this more intelligently than I, but I do know that much of our border with Mexico lies on VERY rugged terrain which--with or without a fence--is very difficult and costly to defend.

    I say the answer lies in making Mexico a good neighbor. That's probably a pretty costly option. But in the long term, it may well be cheaper than an indefensible fence, even if it means that we spend the money to shore up the Mexican economy.

    In the end, I think we have to recognize that all of the world's problems are also our own problems, because we now are in an age of globalization. It is no longer a moral issue to help our neighbors; I think it is now simply a prudent strategy to help our neighbors, because they are now the people most able to help us in this global economy.

    I'm looking forward to reading the rebuttals you guys offer!
  • p3skykingp3skyking Member Posts: 23,916 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I don't really have a rebuttal. My premise is that borders are inviolate. Any neighbor that doesn't agree is not a good neighbor.

    American prosperity was not earned overnight and was not guaranteed. If other nations want the same, it is up to them to aquire it on their own.
  • spurgemasturspurgemastur Member Posts: 5,655 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by p3skyking

    American prosperity was not earned overnight and was not guaranteed. If other nations want the same, it is up to them to aquire it on their own.


    Fair enough.

    But what if our prosperity is best defended by helping other nations to find their own prosperity?

    I'm not suggesting we owe anything to anybody; I am simply suggesting that it might be in our best interest to aid a neighbor so that they do not present problems for us.
  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    The problem is: Mexico and The illegal Mexicans in this country fully believe that the entire south west of our country belongs to them.

    These people need to be shown in a harsh way that they lost that land and it is now part of our country.

    Arrest them all! Make them live in Sherriff Joe type tent cities to pay for the crimes they have commited! Make them do hard labor building the fence to keep them out. And after they have served thier hard labor time deport them.

    The fence should have military maned towers every 1000 meters with motion detectors between them. Military gaurds should have the OK to shoot any violators that are crossing.

    We should shut down ALL tourist traffic to mexico untill such time they will also patrol the boarder to assist in keeping thier people in line.

    Inside our country we shut down ALL welfare or aid of anykind to any illegal. Shut down ANY company that is caught employing illegals (we will have to provide an instant ID verification prosses for employers to verify ID of those hired before they can go to work). Also confenscate all assets of the companies caught hireing illegals.

    I know it sounds harsh. But in order to stop this problem we need to be harsh, and stand our ground untill ALL requirements are met.
  • kristovkristov Member Posts: 6,633
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Zulu7
    What good is a fence if there's no one around to guard it? Build towers at 500 meter intervals, closer depending on terrain, and put soldiers in the towers with orders to shoot anything that crosses the border.


    The Cold War border between the former Yugoslavia and Austria had those towers, a one kilometer exclusion area, border gaurds who were authorized to shoot to kill and a whole lot more than that but my parents were still able to get across the frontier and escape into Austria. A fence won't keep anyone out of a place which they really want to get into.
  • spanielsellsspanielsells Member Posts: 12,498
    edited November -1
    The Palestinians are really pi$$ed off about Israel's border fence.

    The Mexicans are really pi$$ed off about our proposed border fence.

    I'm failing to see what the problem is. Fences make awesome neighbors.

    I read in the paper yesterday where some 'tard suggested that the border fence is the same thing as the Berlin Wall. What these liberal weenie candy-assed pussie types fail to understand is that the Berlin Wall was meant to keep people in, whereas our border fence will be meant to keep people out.

    There's such a massive difference between the two, which is probably why it is difficult for liberal weenie candy-assed pussie types to understand.
  • hicap47hicap47 Member Posts: 516 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Spanielsells.......+1
  • MVPMVP Member Posts: 23,453 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Mexico just might get so mad at the USA for building a fence they are will "Just take their Ball and go home"

    I could only hope.
  • PATBUZZARDPATBUZZARD Member Posts: 3,556
    edited November -1
    quote:I read in the paper yesterday where some 'tard suggested that the border fence is the same thing as the Berlin Wall.

    The Berlin wall was built to keep people in.... the USA/Mexico wall is to keep people out. And as for this harming immigration, the only immigation that will be affected is the ILLEGAL form.
  • HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    The divide grows ever wider.

    The gap between those believing in a strong America...and those who don't.
    The gap between those believing in a goverment that defends the borders..and leaves her OWN citizens alone...and those who don't.

    The gap between those believing that corruption in goverment and business is evil...and those that don't.

    Interesting times...witnessing the fall of an Empire..and watching the views of those that are supporting the fall.
  • spanielsellsspanielsells Member Posts: 12,498
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by PATBUZZARD
    quote:I read in the paper yesterday where some 'tard suggested that the border fence is the same thing as the Berlin Wall.

    The Berlin wall was built to keep people in.... the USA/Mexico wall is to keep people out. And as for this harming immigration, the only immigation that will be affected is the ILLEGAL form.
    I can swear I said that. In fact, if you read the next line, I did! [:D]
  • texdottexdot Member Posts: 2,315 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Is anyone here old enough to remember what Mexico's position was during WW2? Didn't their government allow Nazi spies to lurk about?
    And giving Mexico aid to build their own economy up won't work because all the goverment officials are crooked.
  • bpostbpost Member Posts: 32,669 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Teamblue
    Ain't this just too dang bad...

    MEXICO CITY - Mexico warned Thursday that the U.S. proposal to build miles of border fence, which is working its way through the Senate, will damage relations between the two countries.

    The Foreign Relations Department said it was "deeply worried" about the proposal, adding it will "increase tension in border communities."

    "These measures will harm the bilateral relationship. They are against the spirit of co-operation that is needed to guarantee security on the common border," the department said in a statement.




    I hope it destroys any relations between our countries. We can then invade, take them over, give them real money and have great vacation spots for the winter.
  • chollagardenschollagardens Member Posts: 4,614 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Zulu7 said......What good is a fence if there's no one around to guard it? Build towers at 500 meter intervals, closer depending on terrain, and put soldiers in the towers with orders to shoot anything that crosses the border.

    +1
  • nordnord Member Posts: 6,106
    edited November -1
    Let's see... There's the Mexican side and there's our side.

    I'd suggest we clearly delineate the border and place our fence somewhat back of the line. Anyone crossing the actual boarder into US territory would become fair game for whatever action we deem appropriate.

    As to the Mexican side... They can do as they please. I'm really not too concerned if our neighbors to the south get a bit upset.
  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    Solution: Annex Mexico, hell we already support it.[:(]
  • texdottexdot Member Posts: 2,315 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    There is a big secret here in Texas and it's going to come out today.TTC For years Vicente Fox,the former PM of Canada and Mr. Bush have had a plan of merging Canada and Mexico with the U.S.. This is a fact. Our Gov. Perry is trying to slide under the radar with a huge toll road called the Trans Texas Corridor,TTC. This road will cover thousand of miles of existing Hwy. 35 specifically and travel from BROWNSVILLE TX. to the Oklahoma border. By the way,anyone who doesn't want to give up their land for the project will have it taken from them. Now think about this. The NAFTA highway. This proposed highway will run from where else,BROWNSVILLE TX. to Canada.
    WHY IN THE HELL WOULD BUSH WANT TO STOP ANY ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS FROM CROSSING OUR SOUTHERN BORDERS WHEW HE WANT US TO ALL BE ONE BIG HAPPY FAMILY.
  • GeoMan42GeoMan42 Member Posts: 209 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Classic095
    Solution: Annex Mexico, hell we already support it.[:(]


    Giant sucking sounds coming from south of the imaginary border...
  • texdottexdot Member Posts: 2,315 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I just found out that our glorious senators are caving in and now talking about fencing 3% of our border. I called my Texas Senator and told his office in no uncertain terms would the people of his district accept 3% fencing. Actually my exact words were " 3% aint gonna do sh**.Fence the whole border and no amnesty."
  • hughbetchahughbetcha Member Posts: 7,801 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by pickenup
    How many miles of fence?
    How many miles of border is there?
    What a JOKE.


    How long was the Berlin Wall?
  • temblortemblor Member Posts: 2,153 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by spurgemastur
    quote:Originally posted by p3skyking

    American prosperity was not earned overnight and was not guaranteed. If other nations want the same, it is up to them to aquire it on their own.


    Fair enough.

    But what if our prosperity is best defended by helping other nations to find their own prosperity?

    I'm not suggesting we owe anything to anybody; I am simply suggesting that it might be in our best interest to aid a neighbor so that they do not present problems for us.

    Quit smoking that stuff Spurge -- If your next door neighbors were throwing BBQs in your back yard all the time with meat they got out of your freezer would you throw them off your property, or would you give them your grill and keep giving them meat to cook ?
    It doen't matter what you do for them or give them until they're ready to change the way their country operates and fend for themselves it'll never get better -- Not to mention that there is so much corruption in their Gov't. that any aid would never reach the people that need it.
    We've got plenty of problems of our own right here in the U.S. we should be working on instead of other countries problems.
    We should secure our borders, deport the illegals and only let legal immigration continue.
  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    Yep the Great Wall over in that other country worked well also:[:0]
  • BlckhrnBlckhrn Member Posts: 5,136
    edited November -1
    I'm opposed to Mexico.
  • Happy GuyHappy Guy Member Posts: 677 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The new president of Mexico said the fence was "wrong and it wouldnt work". If it wont work then why does he care ?
  • kristovkristov Member Posts: 6,633
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by kristov
    Originally posted by texdot
    Is anyone here old enough to remember what Mexico's position was during WW2? Didn't their government allow Nazi spies to lurk about?
    And giving Mexico aid to build their own economy up won't work because all the goverment officials are crooked.



    You are probably thinking about WWI when Mexico was a neutral nation. During WWII Mexico joined the Allies in May, 1942 after a few of her commercial ships were sunk by U-boats.
  • dlrjjdlrjj Member Posts: 5,529 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by kristov
    quote:Originally posted by kristov
    Originally posted by texdot
    Is anyone here old enough to remember what Mexico's position was during WW2? Didn't their government allow Nazi spies to lurk about?
    And giving Mexico aid to build their own economy up won't work because all the goverment officials are crooked.



    You are probably thinking about WWI when Mexico was a neutral nation. During WWII Mexico joined the Allies in May, 1942 after a few of her commercial ships were sunk by U-boats.

    Yep, that old Zimmerman Note is still out there as a concept, isn't it?
    Tax evasion is illegal, tax avoidance is an art form.
  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    They can kiss my hairy Arizona a ss. Everytime I hear blather like this I feel like slapping the dog-snot out of some miserable SOB.
  • Horse Plains DrifterHorse Plains Drifter Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 40,239 ***** Forums Admin
    edited November -1
    quote:Mexico opposed to U.S. border fence

    Really? No bull?? well, that's just swell!![:D]
  • spurgemasturspurgemastur Member Posts: 5,655 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by temblor
    quote:Originally posted by spurgemastur
    quote:Originally posted by p3skyking

    American prosperity was not earned overnight and was not guaranteed. If other nations want the same, it is up to them to aquire it on their own.


    Fair enough.

    But what if our prosperity is best defended by helping other nations to find their own prosperity?

    I'm not suggesting we owe anything to anybody; I am simply suggesting that it might be in our best interest to aid a neighbor so that they do not present problems for us.

    Quit smoking that stuff Spurge -- If your next door neighbors were throwing BBQs in your back yard all the time with meat they got out of your freezer would you throw them off your property, or would you give them your grill and keep giving them meat to cook ?
    It doen't matter what you do for them or give them until they're ready to change the way their country operates and fend for themselves it'll never get better -- Not to mention that there is so much corruption in their Gov't. that any aid would never reach the people that need it.
    We've got plenty of problems of our own right here in the U.S. we should be working on instead of other countries problems.
    We should secure our borders, deport the illegals and only let legal immigration continue.


    Sorry; I stand by my argument and I've only been smoking the legal stuff. I will acknowledge that a lot of illegal aliens are taking advantage of us, but I think the solution lies in a strategy that reduces the incentive to be an illegal alien. A lot of people seem to think that means being very harsh with illegal aliens, and that would work--to a degree. But there would still be the chance that an illegal could beat the system, so the incentive to try still would be there. The alternative is to dis-incentivize illegal aliens by making their own situation comparable to ours. If we could improve the Mexican economy so that it resembled our own, then I think most border crossings would be for tourism or business. And I still think that in the long term, making Mexico as wealthy as we are is probably cheaper than trying to defend how many miles of wilderness border.
  • slipgateslipgate Member Posts: 12,741
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by spurgemastur
    quote:Originally posted by temblor
    quote:Originally posted by spurgemastur
    quote:Originally posted by p3skyking

    American prosperity was not earned overnight and was not guaranteed. If other nations want the same, it is up to them to aquire it on their own.


    Fair enough.

    But what if our prosperity is best defended by helping other nations to find their own prosperity?

    I'm not suggesting we owe anything to anybody; I am simply suggesting that it might be in our best interest to aid a neighbor so that they do not present problems for us.

    Quit smoking that stuff Spurge -- If your next door neighbors were throwing BBQs in your back yard all the time with meat they got out of your freezer would you throw them off your property, or would you give them your grill and keep giving them meat to cook ?
    It doen't matter what you do for them or give them until they're ready to change the way their country operates and fend for themselves it'll never get better -- Not to mention that there is so much corruption in their Gov't. that any aid would never reach the people that need it.
    We've got plenty of problems of our own right here in the U.S. we should be working on instead of other countries problems.
    We should secure our borders, deport the illegals and only let legal immigration continue.


    Sorry; I stand by my argument and I've only been smoking the legal stuff. I will acknowledge that a lot of illegal aliens are taking advantage of us, but I think the solution lies in a strategy that reduces the incentive to be an illegal alien. A lot of people seem to think that means being very harsh with illegal aliens, and that would work--to a degree. But there would still be the chance that an illegal could beat the system, so the incentive to try still would be there. The alternative is to dis-incentivize illegal aliens by making their own situation comparable to ours. If we could improve the Mexican economy so that it resembled our own, then I think most border crossings would be for tourism or business. And I still think that in the long term, making Mexico as wealthy as we are is probably cheaper than trying to defend how many miles of wilderness border.


    Why do so many people think that you can impose people of European decent's way of life and values on people not of european decent? If people would just acknowledge that there are differences in intelligence between people, the world might be a better place.

    Iraq will never be civilized (in our definition of the word) and Mexico will never have a strong economy. They just don't have the evolution to make this happen. Fast forward a million years or so, and perhaps these areas will be in a better way. That is if anyone is left on this planet.

    This is the ONLY thing that will work:

    We need to bribe a few high officials in the Iraq "government" (and I use that term in the LOOSEST of ways) to "order" us out of the country so the US politicians can save face. Then let them fall into complete civil war, get another Saddam, and restore the only semblance of order that type of country will ever know.

    For Mexico, we need to bribe the officials to police their own borders and not allow anyone through. As long as they get more than the illegals are paying to get across, they'll stop most of them.

    Since no official in the US has the balls to do what needs to be done to solve this problem, we need to take this fight to the level of our enemies. Paying a couple 100 million in bribes is a hell of a lot cheaper than paying a couple 100 billion and many lives fighting for a desert wasteland and a third world nation run by criminals.
  • mateomasfeomateomasfeo Member Posts: 27,143
    edited November -1
    quote:Mexico opposed to U.S. border fence

    So?
  • v35v35 Member Posts: 12,710 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Slipgate's got it.
    Mexico's discovery of oil was to be its' salvation but nothing's changed has it?
    Strangely, the discovery of North Sea oil radically changed the complexion of Norway's economics.
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