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Stopped check for mechanic overcharge
v35
Member Posts: 12,710 ✭✭✭
On a job to replace rear axle bearings on a 16000 lb truck chassis (motor home),the mechanic charged me three times the price for bearings, seals & lube and four times a local quote for labor.
What capped it was a $100 charge for disposing of four quarts of differential oil.
On the trip home the differential was still wining.
I stewed for half a day then stopped payment on the check and analyzed
the $2,000 charges.
I plan to write him a letter with a $500 payment and a notice that I'll see him in court.
Any suggestions?
What capped it was a $100 charge for disposing of four quarts of differential oil.
On the trip home the differential was still wining.
I stewed for half a day then stopped payment on the check and analyzed
the $2,000 charges.
I plan to write him a letter with a $500 payment and a notice that I'll see him in court.
Any suggestions?
Comments
They WAY overcharge on simple maintenance procedures.
You should call him and explain it to him too.
How come you didn't question him when he billed you 4x labor?
He will see you in court. Yo should have discussed the bill at the time or even before the work was done. Stopping payment makes the check a worthless check and the law is on his side now. Don
I hope he kissed you when you left, cause you are screwed now![:0]
In some states you are subject to arrest for stopping payment on a check for services. Better contact the person and get this straightened out.
In South Carolina, if someone stops payment for a service they have 10 days to make the check good. If they fail a warrant can be issued for their arrest.
Mateo will chime in with with his .02, pro bono.
Won't happen, Matthew has no cents. Don
What kind of MH you have?
Don
Mateo will chime in with with his .02, pro bono.
I would
Sorry, that is your .02 worth
How can you work pro-bono and charge .02 too?
I pretty much do what I want.
Sort of like this mechanic![:D]
He will see you in court. Yo should have discussed the bill at the time or even before the work was done. Stopping payment makes the check a worthless check and the law is on his side now. Don
Dcon's right. You have to do the arguing before you write the check. If you give him a check, you agree to the charge in a court of law.
Talk to an attorney, but find a good one.
TB
Invoice part numbers are all wrong. Qtys of lube are tripled (12qts=$107.76)and unit price is doubled!!
Labor is $1078.50 @$60/hr.for the two axles.
He insisted on putting in his own rear brakes ($83.80)while I offered new ones standing by. He said mine were wrong part number. The Raybestos chart on the web makes him a liar and his part number bogus.
The four bearings and two seals were charged at $564.26; again phoney part numbers on my invoice.Correct p/n's came from a Chevy truck dealer who's parent organization previously sold me a Maxima.
Bearings and seals researched at Auto Zone at $167.40.
A visit this afternoon under the truck to get s/n info for Dana, the axle maker showed the cover gasket was crushed, separating and oozing. He hadn't replaced it. Despite his alleged backlash dial indicating of the differential, it's still whining.
I'm also thinking fraud, Better business bureau and his licencing authority.
He played good ol boy and we talked guns and hunting on several prior occasions.
I sent him a registered letter today stating my intent, that I stopped payment and that after a review of the overcharges I will send him an adjusted check.
Disappointingly, all I could get out of Commonwealth Attorneys and Court Clerks was that it's a civil matter.
I did complain about the apparently exorbitant prices that couldn't
be confirmed until I researched them over the next two days.
Today the Dana/Spicer service manual & parts list arrived confirming parts, capacity and procedures. Backlash control on this model 80 involves exchanging shims between both sides of the pinion bearings.
After dial indicating existing backlash, the case is sprung some .015" using a special fixture, in order to remove the differential to get at the pinion gear. It's a complicated procedure I know he didn't do.
I had asked him to adjust backlash while the case was open.
The labor charges might have better justified had he gone through the procedure.
He was notified by certified mail of the payment stoppage and why. I told him I would review the costs and deal with him in good faith.
Today, I sent him an adjusted check for parts plus an allowance of 20%. To bend over backward, I accepted his charge for brake shoes.
Labor will be examined similarly with solid bases. I expect to pay between four hours and a day's labor. He can see me in court for the rest. He implied he would use a "means" labor charge.
Having been on a friendly personal basis in the past and seeing some Christian literature in the shop, I believed a verbal handshake
would ensure a fair and honest deal.
Dana series 80 axle bearings & seals on both axles?
Did you get an estimate of what the costs would be? Most States limit how much over the estimate a mechanic can charge.
The bottom line is he did work on your motorhome, and he has a right to charge you whatever he wants. You have a right to negotiate those charges, but this must be done before any substantive work is done.
You knew what the bill was, you wrote him a check, and he accepted it in good faith---he could have said "cash only," and truly hold your motorhome hostage under a mechanic's lien and not broken any laws.
Did he hold you hostage? Yeah, I suspect he did, but you have the ultimate decision as to whether he works on it or not. And there is no sense in comparing his prices for labor, parts and disposal fees to some other shop---this is America, profit is not a dirty word, and he has every right to be paid his fees, not someone else's.
Yeah---I think you got ripped off, but once you signed to authorize the work, you were basically at his mercy. I would suggest that you re-write him another check, and chalk this up to a lesson learned.
You seem to enjoy seeing someone get robbed. Did you have a problem childhood, Bubba?
Dcon get your head out of your dupa. When an invoice states fictitious part numbers, parts, quantities and prices, that's fraud.
You seem to enjoy seeing someone get robbed. Did you have a problem childhood, Bubba?
No problem with my childhood, just a problem with people who think they have the right to tell others what they can charge for thier services. do you have a gun I can buy from you and I get to name the price? Don
do you have a gun I can buy from you and I get to name the price? Don
[/quote]
good for you Don your turning this into a gun topic
If you suspect fraud, then contact the Attorney General in the State where this took place. If you do not reside in the same State, your own AG can't help you much.
Again, all of this should be done after you make the payment. By stopping payment on the check, you have essentially taken the place of a judge and jury, and robbed this mechanic of due process. Most courts take a dim view of this, and stopping the check can only have a negative impact on any Trier of Fact that might hear any complaint you may have. Immediately making good on the check would send a strong message to any court that you weren't simply trying to skip out on a debt.
Not knowing your State's consumer protection statutes, I can't really tell you if you would win, but if this took place here in Washington, I can honestly say that your are basically screwed. If you want to prove fraud, you are going to have to prove you were charged for parts not actually installed, or labor not actually performed. I can tell you with some certainty that you cannot argue that his labor costs are out of line. Again, this is America, and he can charge you as much as he wants for his labor. Same thing for his parts. Many mechanics say that they won't guarantee their work unless you use their parts---even if you can get the exact same part someplace else for a cheaper price.
As I said earlier, the time to negotiate these things is before the work begins, not after you sign the check. To any Tom, Dick or Harry who may be a juror, it simply looks like a case of mechanic's remorse---"Hey, I paid way more than I should have!!"
Really---the best advice I can give you is to re-issue another check for the full invoice amount, then take him to court if you believe fraud was involved.
issue. I'm not a vindictive person out to cause him pain despite his
"errors". His stated charge was $60 per hour plus parts.
My strategy at this point is to pay him for the correct parts plus 20% plus his mechanics discount plus labor. There was no mention at the outset that he would charge me $100 to dispose of four quarts of oil. Labor hours will come out of a book of standard rates for the job as he had stated he would do at the outset. If he comes after me for the balance he may get it along with some bad press in motorhome magazines and with consumer affairs and his licencing authorities.
It is my expectation that a court reviewing actual and customary costs and comparing them with the invoice amounts will recognize
the deception and disallow the excess.
My lawyer has yet to contact me so that is the plan so far.
issue.
True, fraud can be either a civil tort, a crime or both
I'm not a vindictive person out to cause him pain despite his
"errors". His stated charge was $60 per hour plus parts.
Did you get that in writing before the work was done?
My strategy at this point is to pay him for the correct parts plus 20% plus his mechanics discount plus labor.
Whose prices are you going to use? Since he is an independent entity, I suspect he can charge whatever he wants for labor. Again, as far as the parts used, you will need to hire an expert to proffer an expert opinion as to whether the parts were "Correct." If you didn't specify beforehand, he's free to install premium parts at whatever mark-up he wants if he desires. If it came down to your word against the mechanic, juries and judges will use the testimony of the mechanic every time, unless you can prove you have had the same vocational education as the mechanic.
There was no mention at the outset that he would charge me $100 to dispose of four quarts of oil.
This is an important question. Did you sign an authorization allowing him to work on your motorhome? I cannot imagine that you didn't, as if you did not authorize the work, you could have simple driven off without paying him a dime. It's that "authorization to work" signature that allows him to place a mechanic's lien on the vehicle. It's the "authorization to work" that indemnifies him if your vehicle is stolen or damaged by outside sources. And it's the "authorization to work" that typically spells out shop fees, labor rates, guarantees and such. Most people simply sign these without reading them, and that's a big mistake. So, did you sign an authorization to work? In most States you are entitled to a copy, though you specifically have to ask for it. If you did, you need to get a copy, and read it!!! Your only hope is if he violated the terms of the authorization.
Labor hours will come out of a book of standard rates for the job as he had stated he would do at the outset.
Again, did you get this in writing, or did you have a witness present when he stated it? If not, he's not at all obligated to use someone else's "book of standard rates." Yes, many mechanics base their estimate on these rates, but it sounds like you didn't get an estimate (at least an estimate in writing). Now, many States require a licensed mechanic to provide an estimate in good faith, but I don't know if the Commonwealth of Virginia has such a statute.
If he comes after me for the balance he may get it along with some bad press in motorhome magazines and with consumer affairs and his licencing (sic) authorities.
Yes---an honest mechanic would be terrified at the thought of bad press, or such a report to a licensing authority---but remember, that sword cuts both ways. Be sure you can prove your complaint, or else you may find yourself involved in a libel, slander, or defamation of character lawsuit. But it also sounds like this mechanic is a crook, and preys on people who have no where else to go, and gouges the heck out of his customers, knowing there is not much they can do, except go somewhere else. The sad part is that the towing charges would probably far outweigh any savings. I agree, you were shafted, but I still don't see any fraud. There is definitely some price gouging going on, but since this mechanic is not performing an essential-for-life service, price gouging is simply charging that the market will bear
It is my expectation that a court reviewing actual and customary costs and comparing them with the invoice amounts will recognize the deception and disallow the excess. My lawyer has yet to contact me so that is the plan so far.
I believe you are basing your whole complaint on the fact that this mechanic has exceeded a "Usual and customary costs" nexus. I am of the opinion that since he did not perform a life-saving service, he's not obligated to charge "Usual and customary" rates. You had every option to take your business elsewhere. I'm sure Virginia allows a customer to ask for an estimate before the work is done, and since I've asked you before "Did you get an estimate?" and you have not said anything, I'm guessing you did not. I suspect you scratched your name on the work authorization, and as a practiced crook, essentially authorized this jerk Carte Blanc to do whatever he wished. He was probably laughing all the way from the office to the shop floor with dollar signs in his eyes. You were taken---I agree, but I believe you allowed yourself to be taken, and that happens all the time to an uninformed public.
I'll step off my soapbox now. I truly hope you can find a loophole in how this jerk shafted you, but I just don't see it, if you didn't get an estimate beforehand. This guy probably has a lot more experience in being a shady mechanic, than you do being a shafted consumer. He's done this a hundred times, yet it's probably the first time it's happened to you. I believe you have a uphill battle, and I feel for you. It sounds like you have retained competent legal services---that's a step in the right direction. If you can afford it, I still think you should re-issue the check, for this mechanic can do far more civil harm to you, than you to him. Re-issuing the check will remove a huge advantage he has over you, as it will remove the stigma of buyer's remorse, and that can only help your cause.
He felt intent of the parties, customary charges and verbal contract aspects and whether the agreed upon work was done using the specified parts. The inaccurate invoice and differential backlash problems are critical.
I need to write a letter to my bank and another to the bandit asking to show a suppliers' invoice that he used the correct parts as specified on Dana/Spicer's bill of material. This needs to happen before I make a labor offer and when I do it should be 5-6 hours.
I suggested I was ready to pay him eight hours, the rate of both a Chevrolet truck dealership and a local and large heavy truck shop.
The truck repair facility takes a 25% markup on list price of parts.
As a retired mechanical engineer, experienced in most aspects of light and heavy machinery from design & manufacturing to costing, sales and purchasing, I've been comfortable discussing any part of it in court.