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Another ATF C&R question or two

win37win37 Member Posts: 74 ✭✭
edited October 2001 in General Discussion
Two weeks ago I received my C&R license along with three books Federal Firearm Laws/State Firearm Laws/C&R Laws and list of acceptable guns. More reading than I usually do in a year even if I could understand it.Yesterday the mailman brought the following in a package:The same three books plus:(1) poster concerning the Youth Handgun Safety Act(10) pamplets explaining the same thing(6) pamplets on rights under NICS(5) form 4473 the ones we fill out to buy a firearm from a dealer(3) forms for reporting multiple sales of pistols and revolvers(1) Federal Firearms Licensee Manual on the NICS background check system(1) form to order more forms which is in accordance with the Paperwork Reduction Act of 1995I still cannot find the partridge in a pear tree but I know it has to be there.Question for someone who has had their licesne for a while and understands all this, what do I need to know and use? If I sell something that I have purchased with my license, do I have them fill out the form 4473? Do I give them the pamplets?I am not wanting to be a dealer, just have firearms sent to my home without adding another $30 or so the the purchase price.Any input will be appreciated,Frank
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Comments

  • cpilericpileri Member Posts: 447 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    you dont need any of that. it only applies if you are going to sell any of your firearms- wgich your 03-ffl does NOT permit you to do. the stuff just comes with the package.i brought mine down to a local dealer and gave it to him. been getting small discounts ever since.carl
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  • EOD GuyEOD Guy Member Posts: 931 ✭
    edited November -1
    You do have to give a copy of the Youth Handgun Safety Act pamphlet to the purchaser when you sell them a handgun.
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  • chxbixchxbix Member Posts: 25 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Can you say Catch-22?You cannot sell any firearms to the general public, not even C&R eligible firearms. However, you ARE allowed to dispose of ANY firearm to another FFL holder. However, if you do sell a firearm you are required to give them the youth brochure as stated above.?????????
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  • pat1pat1 Member Posts: 337 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Frequently Asked QuestionsLicensed CollectorsWhat is a firearm curio or relic?Firearm curios or relics include firearms which have special value to collectors because they possess some qualities not ordinarily associated with firearms intended for sporting use or as offensive or defensive weapons. To be recognized as curios or relics, firearms must fall within one of the following categories:1.) Have been manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, but not including replicas thereof; or2.) Be certified by the curator of a municipal, state or Federal museum which exhibits firearms to be curios or relics of museum interest; or3.) Derive a substantial part of their monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare, bizarre, or from the fact of their association with some historical figure, period, or event.[27 CFR 178.11]Is there a specific license that permits a collector to acquire firearms in interstate commerce?Yes. The person may obtain a collector's license; however, this license applies only to transactions in curio or relic firearms. The principal advantage of a collector's license is that a licensed collector can acquire curios or relics in interstate commerce. [27 CFR 178.41(c), (d), 178.50(b) and 178.93]How does one get a collector's license?Submit ATF Form 7CR, Application for License (Collector of Curios or Relics), with the appropriate fee in accordance with the instructions on the form. These forms may be obtained from the Firearms and Explosives Licensing Center in Atlanta, Georgia, your local ATF office, or downloaded from ATF's Internet site; www.atf.treas.gov. [27 CFR 178.41(c)]Does a collector's license afford any privileges to the licensee with respect to acquiring or disposing of firearms other than curios or relics in interstate or foreign commerce?No. A licensed collector has the same status under the Gun Control Act (GCA) as a nonlicensee except for transactions in curio or relic firearms. [27 CFR 178.93]Does the Federal firearms law require licensed collectors to comply with state laws and local published ordinances which are relevant to the enforcement of the GCA?Yes. It is unlawful for any licensed collector to sell or deliver any firearm or ammunition to any person if the person's purchase or possession would be in violation of any State law or local published ordinance applicable at the place of sale or delivery.[18 U.S.C. 922(b)(2), 27 C.F.R. 178.99(b)(2)]Does a license as a collector of curio or relic firearms authorize the collector to engage in the business of dealing in curios or relics?No. A collector's license only enables the collector to transport, ship, receive, and acquire curios and relics in interstate or foreign commerce, and to make disposition of curios and relics in interstate or foreign commerce, to any other licensee, for the period stated on the license. A collector's license does not authorize the collector to engage in a business required to be licensed under the Act. Therefore, if the acquisitions and dispositions of curios and relics by a collector bring the collector within the definition of a manufacturer, importer, or dealer, he shall qualify as such. A dealer's license must be obtained to engage in the business of dealing in any firearms, including curios or relics. [18 U.S.C. 922(a) and 923(a)(1), 27 CFR 178.41(c)(d)]What does "engaged in business" mean?The term "engaged in business," as applicable to a firearms dealer, is defined as a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms, but such term shall not include a person who makes occasional sales, exchanges, or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or for a hobby, or who sells all or part of his personal collection of firearms.[27 CFR 178.11]Are licensed collectors transfers of curio or relic firearms subject to the Brady law, including the provision for making background checks on transferees?No. Transfers of curio or relic firearms by licensed collectors are not subject to the requirements of the Brady law. However, it is unlawful to transfer a firearm to any person knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that such person is a felon or is within any other category of persons prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms. [18 U.S.C. 922 (d), 27 CFR 178.32 (d), 18 U.S.C. 922(t)]Is the transfer of a firearm by a licensed dealer to a licensed collector subject to the Brady law?The Brady law does not apply to the transfer of a curio or relic firearm to a licensed collector. However, a licensed collector who acquires a firearm other than a curio or relic from a licensee would be treated like a nonlicensee, and the transfer would be subject to Brady requirements.Are licensed collectors required to execute ATF Form 4473 for transactions in curio or relic firearms?No. Licensed collectors are only required to keep a "bound book" record.[27 CFR 178.125(f)]Are licensed collectors required to comply with the requirements that written notification be given to handgun transferees and signs be posted on juvenile handgun possession?The requirement that written notification concerning juvenile handgun possession be given by licensees to a nonlicensee to whom a handgun is delivered applies to curio or relic handguns transferred by licensed collectors. However, the sign posting requirement does not apply to licensed collectors. In the case of collectors, a requirement to post signs at the licensed premises would serve no purpose because the premises is not a business premises open to the public, and licensed collectors may lawfully dispose of curio or relic handguns away from their licensed premises.[18 U.S.C. 922 (x), 27 CFR 178.103]Can a licensed collector sell a curio or relic shotgun or rifle to a nonlicensed resident of another state?Yes. A licensed collector is specifically authorized to sell a curio or relic shotgun or rifle to a nonlicensed resident of another State so long as 1.) The purchaser meets with the licensee in person at the licensee's premises to accomplish the transfer, sale, and delivery of the rifle or shotgun; and 2.) The sale, delivery, and receipt of the rifle or shotgun fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such states.[27 CFR 178.96 (c)(1)]Are licensed collectors required to turn in their acquisition/disposition records to ATF if their collector's license is not renewed or they discontinue their collecting activity?No. The GCA requires the delivery of required records to the Government within 30 days after a firearm "business" is discontinued. A license as a collector of curios or relics does not authorize any business with respect to firearms. This is in contrast to firearm importers, manufacturers, and dealers who are licensed to engage in a firearms business. Therefore, the records required to be kept by licensed collectors under the law and regulations are not business records and are not required to be turned in to ATF when collectors' licenses are not renewed or collecting activity under such licenses is discontinued.[18 U.S.C. 923(g)(4), 27 CFR 178.127]May a licensed collector obtain NFA firearms in interstate commerce?Only if the firearms are classified as curios or relics, are registered in the National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record, and are transferred in accordance with the provisions of the NFA.[27 CFR 179.83 - 179.86]May semiautomatic assault weapons which have been classified as curios or relics be imported?Not unless they are being imported for sale to a government agency or law enforcement officer employed by such agency for official use. Since ATF will not approve an importation which would place the importer in violation of the law, ATF would not authorize the importation of semiautomatic assault weapons, even if classified as curios or relics, unless the importer provided evidence that the weapons were being imported for sale to a governmental entity or other exempt purchaser.[18 U.S.C. 922(v)]
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  • win37win37 Member Posts: 74 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I would like to thank each one of you for takeing the time to respond.Pat1 ~ Thanks to you especially for the detailed references. I noticed you are from the great Commonwealth of Kentucky. I spent about 14 years in Florence and hauled gas up and down the river from Carrolton to Maysville. Spent many an enjoyable hour on Cave Run Lake.Thanks again to all,Frank
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  • pat1pat1 Member Posts: 337 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Frank: You will need to get a "Bound Book" if and when you get your C&R License's. Let me know if you want one. They are 5.00 Bucks each + shipping. Drop me an E-Mail.....benb@fuse.net........Thanks!!..Ben....
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  • MPinkstonMPinkston Member Posts: 799 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    chxbix, I was not aware of that little piece of info (C&R FFL cannot sell to public). Would you provide directions to locate that in the law? Thanks.
    aguncollector@prodigy.net
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