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Friendly Fire Possible?

smokinggunsmokinggun Member Posts: 590 ✭✭✭✭
edited September 2001 in General Discussion
Report: California Officers Issuing Federal Warrant Were Unprepared for Hostile SuspectThe Associated Press Published: Sep 2, 2001SANTA CLARITA, Calif. (AP) - Confusion among officers involved in an armed standoff may have led to the shooting not only of the suspect but of a fellow lawman, The Los Angeles Times reported Sunday. An investigation into Friday's shootout with James Allen Beck has raised the question of whether Beck fired the bullet that killed Los Angeles County sheriff's Deputy Hagop "Jake" Kuredjian or whether the officer mistakenly was hit by a fellow law enforcement officer. "I am quite sure that is something we're going to look into, because it's not clear he was shot by Beck," sheriff's Sgt. Paul Patterson told The Associated Press in an interview Sunday. The standoff began Friday morning when federal officers and sheriff's officials tried to serve a search warrant at Beck's home in an upscale section of this city 22 miles north of Los Angeles. Autopsy results Saturday showed Kuredjian died of a single gunshot wound to the head. He had been struck while crouching behind an SUV parked on the street four houses down from Beck, the Times reported. Beck, a convicted felon, was alleged to have impersonated a U.S. marshal and be building a weapons cache. As authorities approached, Beck began shooting at officers from the U.S. Marshal's office and U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms. Kuredjian arrived a few minutes after the shooting started and was hit almost immediately while trying to provide gunfire as cover to fellow deputies pinned down in the fusillade, the Times reported. The exchange of gunfire startled neighbors, especially those who saw officers firing at the wrong house. "I hollered out the window, 'You're shooting at the wrong house!'" said one neighbor, who spoke to the Times on condition of anonymity. "They must have heard us or something, because I could hear one of the deputies say, 'Is it the house with the Explorer?' And another guy says, 'No, the one next to it.'" Homes on either side of Beck's house were riddled with bullet holes, including one where a couple and their 30-hour-old newborn cowered. "Three bullets came through the (front) window, the master closets and into the master bathroom," said Phil Lombardi, the baby's father. He described how he, his wife and baby, took cover in a second floor bathroom. "It was very traumatic. My wife wasn't coping with it. I was trying to comfort her with the newborn child," he said. The total number of rounds fired was unclear and authorities would not give an estimate. "It was a very extensive gun battle. We have to wait to see what was collected at scene," sheriff's Sgt. Patterson said. The three-hour exchange ended after tear gas projectiles were shot into Beck's house and a fire erupted. Flames quickly engulfed the home, burning it to the ground. But authorities were still unclear how the fire began. "It's probably going to be a little more difficult, because of the extent of the fire," Patterson said. "They'll have to sift through evidence to determine how the fire was actually started." Investigators discovered a body believed to be Beck's. But the coroner's office said an autopsy would not be conducted until Tuesday, at the earliest. An AK-47 and AR-15, a shotgun, a .380-caliber semiautomatic pistol, handguns and ammunition were collected from the ashes. AP-ES-09-02-01 2327EDT

Comments

  • LowriderLowrider Member Posts: 6,587
    edited November -1
    Firing at the wrong house? Unbelievable!There's no way it'll ever become public knowledge if they find the officer was killed by his own people. After all, the BATF was involved. All the evidence will just disappear.We're from the government and we're here to kill you.
  • Evil ATFEvil ATF Member Posts: 1,195 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    THAT'S "STOCKPILING"!?!?!?!Congratulations, America! Another tyrant has gotten away with murder!
  • boeboeboeboe Member Posts: 3,331
    edited November -1
    If that's stockpiling, I better go get ready....
  • beachmaster73beachmaster73 Member Posts: 3,011 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Come on guys....he was a convicted felon and shouldn't have had one gun much less an AK and an AR. If I were a LEO in that town I don't think I'd want someone like that buying and saving weapons. Much as I hate to admit it, Evil, that AK gives a convict scum a big advantage over a LEO and his Glock, Colt, S&W etc. I don't even want to think about some criminal scum armed with an AR shooting it out with a police officer and his side arm. Now as to the confusion during the fire fight, especially in light of the amount of ammo expended by both sides....Hell it could be real confusing arriving in the middle of that show. And I think if ballistics shows that a police officer fired the bullet that killed the deputy it won't be swept under the rug. Now maybe if the feds did inadvertantly shoot the deputy they'll issue new weapons to everyone and say "not us". But I just can't see a small town department doing that. Beach
  • HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    What part of 'paid your debt to society' do we seem to have trouble understanding ?
  • boeboeboeboe Member Posts: 3,331
    edited November -1
    Beach,From an earlier post:'Beck had two prior convictions, for burglary and impersonating a police officer, William Woolsey of the U.S. Marshals Service said. Beck worked for the Arcadia Police Department for one year, but was fired because he didn't pass probation, Chief Dave Hinig said.'There were also neighbors who reported him yelling "Don't shoot my dog, don't shoot my dog" at the onset of the firefight. Also, his girlfriend exited through the garage shortly into the fight.He certainly doesn't sound like a hardened criminal to me. He wasn't into taking hostages and was concerned about his dog, for Christs sakes! I can't help but think the measures they took were a bit extreme. Sure seems like they would learn it's much easier to pick up such people when they drop by the local Quick Trip for a pack of smokes than to open an entire neighborhood up as a battlefield!
  • hackerhacker Member Posts: 162 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    dont know if cops acted ok in going after this guy, but any time there are groups of people shooting in a high stress situation anything is possible as far as wrong targets being hit.
  • tccoxtccox Member Posts: 7,379 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Gentlemen, I certainly don't see how it can be justified for the LEO's to be pouring fire into the wrong house. I think it extremely foolhardy for any officer to arrive on a scene and begin fireing without knowing what the heck is going on. As sportsmen, it is drilled into us (or should be) before we take our first shot, BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET.Since some PD's do have civilian oversite panels, we may get the true facts. Let's hope so. Tom
    Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who dont.
  • smokinggunsmokinggun Member Posts: 590 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I read somewhere in an article that seven different homes were hit, and these are huge houses. Seems like if shooting at a human target inside the house it's pretty reckless to miss the whole house.A.T.F.-Assault, Terror, and Fire
  • ghotie_thumperghotie_thumper Member Posts: 1,561 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    It seems that the officers underestimated the ability of the accused once again. Like in WACO, taking on an armed suspect in their own home is pretty risky. Seems like they may have been better off to have waited for the guy to leave the house for the morning paper or maybe a trip to the market. As far as the officers who responded and acted errantly. We can monday morning Quarterback the incident for days but not being in the shoes of the involved parties makes it difficult to question the judgement displayed. They may have been given misinformation from their dispatchers or the high stress situation caused a few to fall apart. As far as paid debts to society, how many chances do we need to give? I agree that many felonies shouldn't take ones right to keep and bear arms away, but it seems in this case that the guy was out of line. I'm sure we haven't heard the last of it.
  • PupPup Member Posts: 217 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    If I recall correctly, didn't the "authorities" have several chances to arrest David Koresch some time before the entire Waco incident? I would hope that nobody in law enforcement would choose to engage in a firefight or put on a big show when given the choice as to the arrest of someone. If more than one house was indeed fired into then what does/can that say as to the safety of the innocent bystanders? I've never served in LE, but I believe if some officers "fell apart" during this situation, more evaluation of applicants is needed. Don't misunderstand me, I know that being a cop is a very high-stressed and often underappreciated job. But there's no acceptable reason to me for rounds going through the wrong house, especially if me or my family's inside.
  • SP TigerSP Tiger Member Posts: 872 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    You just don't go blazing in like those guys in the China shop from "Police Academy". Could they not tell where the fire was coming from or did they just decide to perforate the whole block just to be sure? If three or four guns is a "cache of weapons" then I guess the ATF will come for me next.
    Better to have and not need, than need and not have.
  • thesupermonkeythesupermonkey Member Posts: 3,905 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    By the way, whatever happened to his dog? Us animals gotta stick together
  • HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    "This guy was over the line" ??? I must have missed something important...He murdered 6 people,or something ?? Take away the b.s. "felony in possession" and you got WHAT ?? A nosy neighbor ??? Impersonating a COP ?? Ya,I agree,he should be checked for sanity for that..The way it looks,that would be like taking Bundy's name.... Edited for 'bad language '...whats left is bad enough....[This message has been edited by Highball (edited 09-06-2001).]
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