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Advice on payment

jonkjonk Member Posts: 10,121
edited April 2002 in General Discussion
I recently sold a gun at gunbroker. I told the buyer that if he paid by check, I would hold the check for clearence before shipping. He paid with a business check. Is there anything different about a business check where I could ship immediately, or should I still wait?

"...hit your enemy in the belly, and kick him when he is down, and boil his prisoners in oil- if you take any- and torture his women and children. Then people will keep clear of you..." -Admiral of the Fleet Lord Fisher, speaking at the Hague Peace Conf
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Comments

  • He DogHe Dog Member Posts: 51,593 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Sure Jonk send the gun, no one ever wrote a rubber business check! Seriously pal if it is not a cashiers check or certified check, you run exactly the same risk whether it is my personal check or my business check. It is likely good, but let it clear. You said that out front, so it is fair, and prudent business. When I buy from you I will send a cashiers check, then you can ship right a way. Sorry for the smart aleck start, I have been reading too many hostile posts here lately.
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  • concealedG36concealedG36 Member Posts: 3,566 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    There is nothing special about a business check. I could write one from a business account that is empty the same as I could do from my personal account. However, if the business is something like AT&T or 3M, you will probably be safe.

    My feeling is unless the check can be cashed immediately by me (in other words, a cashier's check or money order) the buyer will have to wait until the check clears.

    Good luck!
    G36

    Gun Control Disarms Victims, NOT Criminals
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  • competentonecompetentone Member Posts: 4,696 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Ditto to the above--and actually a business check can be even more difficult to "prosecute" if it's bad, especially if the business is a corporation.

    You'd likely be stuck with "civil remedies" if it were bad.

    If somebody wants something without the wait for a check to clear, they can spend the buck or two for a cashier's check.

    Hold it til it clears.
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  • gundawggundawg Member Posts: 32 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Business checks can be worse than personal checks. I've seen
    more than my share of bad ones over the years.
    On a similar note, how many of you have received nasty e mails, or bad feedback, because of "slow shipping", when you clearly specify that
    you wait X amount of days for a check to clear?
    Seems some bidders can't read, or follow directions very well.
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  • MercuryMercury Member Posts: 7,830 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Gundawg is right. Business checks are way more likely to be bad than personal checks.

    Also, PLEASE NOTE that cashier's checks CAN have a stop payment on them! Friend of mine found this out recently....got burned for $200..... I didn't know that was possible. His bank said it was. :(

    Merc


    NO! You may not have my guns! Now go crawl back into your hole!

    ****************************************

    "Tolerating things you may not necessarily like is part of being free" - Larry Flynt
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  • He DogHe Dog Member Posts: 51,593 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    That is interesting Merc, I did not know that either, and I use them a lot. There can also be problems with money orders, particularly if they are not postal. The companies that issue them through stores etc. go out of business with great regularity.

    Hey Jonk, will ya take my Visa???
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  • 22WRF22WRF Member Posts: 3,385
    edited November -1
    Lets get this straight about cashiers checks.
    A cashiers check mean the funds were in the account at the time the check was purchased from the bank. If the account is overdrawn or closed prior to you cashing it and clearing you out of luck same as a personal check.

    If you get a certified check then the bank has withdrawn the funds from the account when the check was purchased and it is guaranteed
    good.

    I Refuse to be a VictimGrumpy old man
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  • jonkjonk Member Posts: 10,121
    edited November -1
    He Dog, if you ever buy anything from me, I take Visa, but only via paypal- and then only if the buyer pays for the extra fees.

    "...hit your enemy in the belly, and kick him when he is down, and boil his prisoners in oil- if you take any- and torture his women and children. Then people will keep clear of you..." -Admiral of the Fleet Lord Fisher, speaking at the Hague Peace Conf
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  • compgunfirecompgunfire Member Posts: 95 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I deposit everything - Personal Checks, Bank Drafts and EVEN Money Orders. With todays hi-tech printers and copiers everthing can be faked, reproduced and/or altered.

    I ship after the payment clears, Bank Drafts and Money Orders only take about 1 to 3 days max. to process. A personal Check takes 5 to 10 days.
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  • BoltactionManBoltactionMan Member Posts: 2,048 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    22WRF A true Cashier's Check is draw on the issueing banks funds. Pretty much the only was it can bounce is if the FDIC shuts the bank down and probably even not then.

    HOWEVER, guys I have bad news. At my work (Bank) the other day we had a COUNTERFEIT Cashier's Check. As if all our lives weren't messed up enough. You can probably expect your local banks to start putting holds on them just like any other.

    To be honest, even I have no idea what to tell you guys to do to try and combat this. If it looks funny, be careful. It probably won't look funny though. Your bank may be able to call the issuing bank and verify validity.

    I also don't believe that a "stop payment" can be put on a true Cashier's Check. I will check with my deposit guru tomorrow and try to get back to you on this. Me, I'm just a dumb loan guy.

    KC
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  • MercuryMercury Member Posts: 7,830 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    KC,
    Please let us know. All that I know is that my friend deposited the check, and they said that it had a stop payment on it. It said "Cashier's Check" on it too. :(

    Merc

    NO! You may not have my guns! Now go crawl back into your hole!

    ****************************************

    "Tolerating things you may not necessarily like is part of being free" - Larry Flynt
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  • pickenuppickenup Member Posts: 22,844 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I was reading on another site that people can "say" that they lost a cashiers check which in turn puts a stop payment on it. I would like to hear what BoltactionMan finds out.
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  • bartobarto Member Posts: 4,734 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    i got a cashiers check a couple years ago from a MAJOR insurance co.& this crummy bank here wouldnt cash it.
    they said they had to hold it for 7 days.
    i refused to leave w/out my $ (closing time).
    they finally coughed up after 45 mins.
    i honestly dont know if they were afraid of the checks validity or just wanted to bilk it for interest.
    either way, they lost my business.
    barto

    the hard stuff we do right away - the impossible takes a little longer
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  • BoltactionManBoltactionMan Member Posts: 2,048 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Sorry Guys, I got side tracked. (Stupid Work).

    At my bank (maybe just us) you can put a "Stop Payment" on a Cashier's Check, but only by posting a bond to cover us if that one shows up (Check lost in mail, possibly destroyed, etc) After posting that bond, we will replace your check with an identical one. (Made out to the same Payee, same amount, etc.)

    The original purchaser of the check can also bring a Cashier's Check back to us and get their money back. But even then, we have to endorse it "Cashier's Check not used for intended purpose" and purchaser (Not spouse, not mom or dad, purchaser) can get the value back. A true Cashier's Check is the same as cash (not counting these idiots and their counterfeit ones).

    Barto,
    I suspect you may have had a Draft from the insurance company not a Cashier's Check. Your bank was probably more worried about them than you. Insurance company payments are returned a lot for usually very minor issues (endorsed without a middle initial for example) and we are out the value until corrected.

    I hope I helped, and hope you guys never run into these da## crooks.

    KC
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  • competentonecompetentone Member Posts: 4,696 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Boltaction,

    Thanks for the great info.

    I had one more question--which you might not be able to answer--what if I received a cashiers check, take it to the bank, they cash it, then it turns out later that it was a forgery? Who's out the money? Would I have to give the money back?

    On a regular check, I can see how I am the one left holding the bad check, but with the "certified funds" (and assuming of course it is clear I am not in any way involved with the forgery) wouldn't the bank be "verifying the authenticity" of the cashiers check at the time they actually cashed it?

    I've just wonder about that on the few occasions I've used cashiers checks.
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  • gskyhawkgskyhawk Member Posts: 4,773
    edited November -1
    on the other hand NEVER EVER PAY with a postal money order !!!! remember a postal money order is just like cash any one at any time can cash them, you CANNOT put a stop payment on a postal money order for any reason, if your postal m.o. gets lost oh well you're just out of luck , if the wrong person get their hands on it, they can cash it and you're out the money. If for some reason you don't believe what I'm saying just call a postal inspector and ask! Remember postal m.o. are ok if you are on the receiving end just don't use them to pay some one with for your own protection.

    Also I asked my bank about putting a stop payment on a bank money order and was tolded that it can be done but like anything you have to get the request in before the check is cashed to do any good.
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  • budmottbudmott Member Posts: 155 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I am suprised no one else ask this,
    BoltactionMan, do you loan money to
    buy guns?
    [insert grin here]
    Bud

    If it weren't for lawyers, I wouldn't need a lawyer.
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  • BoltactionManBoltactionMan Member Posts: 2,048 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Bud,
    Yes I have on occasion. Most guys don't like my new policy. It has to stay at my house until paid off. Seemed fair to me. LOL

    competentone,
    You would have to make the check good to your bank. The principle is called "Holder in Due Course". It has to do with your endorsement. It works like this:

    You deposit or cash a check from me. You have to endorse the check to do that. Your bank endorses the back as it goes through there proof department. Their bank endorses it and passes it through regional Federal Reserve bank to my bank.

    My bank returns it not paid for whatever reason. Federal Reserve takes it out of the bank that cleared its funds, that bank takes it out of your banks funds with them, your bank takes out of your account (they can do that read your signature card) or if you do not have the funds in your account, they will call you to come pick up the check.

    The verification I was talking about would be some sort of manual process on the banks part. (I wish you luck with that, some places aren't as helpful as others) They could use the routing number on the Cashier's Check to verify bank validity but would probably have to contact issuing bank to verify if the check was really issued by them. (Not stolen, or "homemade").

    I hope you all had a nice nap trying to read this boring lecture.

    KC
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  • michael minarikmichael minarik Member Posts: 478 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I think all banks have toll free number's: ask buyer to write down his bank's toll free number's and include this number with payment. After a few days call the bank and find out if check cleared. If check has cleared funds are in the Federal Reserve System. Once in that system there is no conceiveable way to prevent you from get payment! Even if buyers passes on!
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  • michael minarikmichael minarik Member Posts: 478 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I think all banks have toll free number's: ask buyer to write down his bank's toll free number's and include this number with payment. After a few days call the bank and find out if check cleared. If check has cleared funds are in the Federal Reserve System. Once in that system there is no conceiveable way to prevent you from getting payment! Even if buyers passes on!
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  • steve45steve45 Member Posts: 2,940 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I recently asked my banker what forms of payment could not have a stop payment applied. A postal money order is the only one that is safe for the seller. I treat all forms of payment as a personal check except for postal money orders. Even paypal can have a chargeback where your money is out of reach until the problem is arbitrated.
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  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    22WRF --
    I know what you MEANT, but what you said above is two different things about a cashier's check. I believe you meant a business check can be overdrawn and a cashier's check cannot. You might want to edit your post. Even so, it appears a stop payment may occur on a cashier's check.

    Personally, I always ask for PayPal or a nationally recognized Money Order or Cashier's Check. Maybe I'll leave off the check from now on. They cost more anyway. I can get Money Orders for about 50 cents, certainly under a dollar at the PO or supermarket.
    The 2nd Amendment is about security, not hunting. Long live the gun shows, and reasonable access to FFLs. Join the NRA -- I'm a Life Member.
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  • steve45steve45 Member Posts: 2,940 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Jonk, that admiral of the fleet Lord Fisher sounds like a mean MoFo.
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