So-Called Gun experts

Killjoy

Earlier today I had a sickening but all to familiar experience. While browsing through a crowded gunstore, I overheard a conversation between a kid working behind the counter and two well meaning but gullible customers. Now the topic of discussion was the twist in M-16 rifles. Overhearing this discussion reinforce two long held opinions I have : 1. Just because someone is in (or was) in the military does not make them an expert in firearms. One of the customers was apparently in the 82nd Airborne, but looked at a heavy-barrel machine-gun upper on a M-16 and claimed it was the predecessor to the M-249 SAW! While it did proceed the SAW it was never in widespread use, probably the only legitimate precursor to the SAW was the Stoner Machine Gun. 2. People who work in gun stores do not necessarily know more than you. In fact, the information they have is often incorrect. The young man behind the counter informed the two customers that the original M-16 had a 1-7 barrel twist but this was changed in later models to 1-9 because the 1-7 twist caused the bullets to "tumble out of the barrel." I won't even dignify this with a response. Now I don't have anything against military or former military (I was in the military for 5 years), but soldiers should learn not to speak out on subjects they don't know the answer to. This will probably start me on my distain for the fact the police often know nothing about firearms, yet often will offer their opinion on a subject. (nothing against police, I am also a police officer) Gun store owners should also be able to say "I don't know" to a question before giving the wrong answer. -Killjoy

M.Opaliski

Agreed.

---

Support your RKBA ... MatthewNRA Life MemberTalk Radio Junkie opaliski@hotmail.com TheFirearmsEnthusiast

Evil ATF

I constantly deal with similiar problems in my pool and spa store. My competitor across town is always telling people crazy things like "NAH! Evil across town is nuts! You don't need to balance your PH! Just toss in a gallon of bleach each week and you'll be fine!"I think that in every profession there are people who will say whatever the customer wants to hear, regardless of whether or not it is true. Some people are just dying to make a sale and don't care what they have to say or do to make it happen. Unfortunately, almost every Alpha male in existance considers himself an expert on small arms.

competentone

But wasn't there an issue with stabilization of the 62gr steel core penitrator round (now the NATO standard) being fired from the 1:7 barrels? And wasn't the 1:9 rifling introduced to correct this stabilization problem?

axlerfan

was in one of my local gun stores today, listening to the salesperson talk to 2 customers about a gun they found on a website...only took me about 30 seconds to realize the customers were talking about www.birdman.org and their barrett m82 "pistol". almost died laughing when the guy behind the counter told of having ordered one of the things for another customer last month...watched the 2 customers when they left, they were laughing so hard when they got outside they almost fell over...so much for the "expert" sales assistance.

smooth_operator

I lived in the California Republic up untill a few months ago and I cant even count the number of times I walked out of a gun store because of "know it all's" behind the counter. One time a salesperson actually pissed me off at a local sporting goods store so I asked to see a Gold Cup, asked him if I could disassemble it, left it on the counter in pieces and headed out the door. Interestingly, word got around that a manager of that specific store went to the nearest gunstore with a "zip loc bag" of parts and asked the local smiths to put it back together. The only thing worse that I could think of are the people who accessorize too much and shoot like theres no tommorrow at the range...uhh...does that shotgun with scope,laser,and a flashlight come with a spoon and a fork too? just like them swiss army knives? ;-)-Smooth

---

Life is the leading cause of death.Everything else is just a contributing factor.[This message has been edited by smooth_operator (edited 11-06-2001).]

kimberkid

competentone,I believe what your are thinking about is the early M-16, they had a twist of 1 in 12 (I think) and it wasn't fast enough to stabilize the bullet thus the tumbling effect. I can't site any specifics but can't help but believe that's what was intended ... to deliver a maximum destructive force from a small projectile ... then our friends at NATO stepped in and said it was in-humane (?) and banned them. I find the 1-9 to be perfect for 52 through 65 grain bullets and a 1 in 7 or 1 in 8 best for the 69 grain and heavier bullets ... this is of course assuming an accuracy load as all can be charged (over or under) and still achieve the tumbling effect.

---

GUN CONTROL: If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention!kimberkid@gunbroker.zzn.com

mlincoln

I was once in a well-known gun store in Warrenton, VA and asked the fellow behind the counter about the Ruger Mini-30 (I think that's the number) he had. I knew it was 7.62x39 and I asked him if they stocked that ammunition, was it hard to find, etc. "Oh, that's no problem. It's the same as .308." I stood there, a bit surprised, and was about to say something when I thought better of it. What's the purpose of arguing? Sad to say, but guns are often best researched on your own.

thesupermonkey

I hear the same kind of drivel every time I go into Comp-Usa. At least a computer won't blow up in your face if you try loading a Jazz Disk in the Floppy.

lrarmsx

I hear the wrong info coming out of people's mouths on a regular basis. Sometimes it is a dealer, sometimes it is a customer. The times it really bothers me is when it is a father telling something to his son. You hate to correct the father in front of his kid, but you'd hate to see the kid blow his face off by following his father's dangerously wrong advice. A lot of what people in the military know about guns, they learned in basic training from their drill instructor. Unfortunately DI's just pass down the same info they got in basic and had reinforced in their carreers. I gave a 2 hour class to an OCS class and corrected a lot of myths. It helps when you have the items in hand on a table to prove what you are telling them is true and what they've held to be true for years is completely wrong. As future Army officers, at least they can start to correct some of the misinformation out there. A local sporting good chain actually tells their employees in training, "When someone asks you a question, and you don't know the answer, store policy is, you are to make it up." I swear. I talked to a friend of mine that worked for them in another town. That is what he was told to do. That is their store policy. From talking with people who have visited their store locally, I can confirm that yes it is true. "If they don't know, they lie." Of course this place has also been caught selling used guns without warranty cards and several hundred rounds shot through them and calling them new too.