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did IRAQ do it and frame bin lauden?

adminadmin Member, Administrator Posts: 1,079 admin
edited October 2001 in General Discussion
From the start I have been wondering if these events have been the work of Iraq. It seems a little too coordinated for a non-government operation. They had at least 12-24 people willing to commit suicide, including 4 pilots who appear to have received pilot training in the US. The whole thing was very well-coordinated and no information was leaked to the world's security services. The hiajckers were smart enough to pull the fuses specific to the plane's transponder and possibly the 'black box'.The evidence pointing to bin lauden looks pretty thin right now. Considering all of the above planning and execution, why would they take the chance of getting busted making a cell phone call in an area that was clearly monitored?Then there are the links between the trade center bombing and Iraq that were dismissed by the Clinton administration and never fully probed.Tensions between the US and Iraq have been high recently and Iraq has been rattling their sabres. By contrast, all has been relatively quiet with bin laden. See Sadam's statements: http://www.drudgereport.com/flash2.htm Lastly, the choice of targets bothers me. Air Force One and the White House makes it seem a bit personal. Sadam has it in for George Bush, jr. due to the spanking he took in the Gulf 'war'. The Pentagon appears to have been a last-minute choice.Certainly we need to go after bin laden for his part in past terrorism and for his open declaration of war on the US.I do wonder though if there isn't a deeper conspiracy here. The Afghans appear to be geninely terrified of what may happen. Most of the world's other terrorist countries quickly ran for cover. Maybe Iraq ochestrated the whole thing and is trying to pin it on bin laden. Thoughts?
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Comments

  • He DogHe Dog Member Posts: 51,593 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Interesting idea. I watched last night thinking I was seeing a Tom Clancy novel. Iraq certainly bears us No good will, but frankly I can't help question if Saddam is smart enough to pull it off, while at the same time thinking he is smart enough to realize he can't afford it. It would have to be clear from the outset that the who and how will get sorted out; people talk and evidence gets left behind. Once it is known there will certainly be reprisal and only a suicidal fanatic would see dieing as worthwhile. I do not see how Iraq could "frame" Bin Laudin so perfectly as to preclude the discovery of the plot. Supporting him seems a good possibility [This message has been edited by He Dog (edited 09-12-2001).]
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  • edharoldedharold Member Posts: 465 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    My first guess would be Saddam. He has evidence to support his theory that we are toothless if we have to endanger lives. He also has the money, organization and balls to do it. Anyone who underestimates his knowledge or ability to do this would be making a mistake. Lets hope that the Bush the younger can correct a family mistake, and mount Saddam's head on one of those posts he's used for his enemies.
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  • mudgemudge Member Posts: 4,225 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Somehow it doesn't make a whole lot of difference to me whether it was Iraq or not.I say, OFF Bin Laden and then go after Saddam.Mudge
    Anyone who CAN carry, SHOULD carry!
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  • cbxjeffcbxjeff Member Posts: 17,597 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Guys,I agree, let's not rush to judgment. Saddam just might have been responsible. Time will tell. I have always thought, if one of those scuud missiles would have hit downtown Tel Aviv a few years ago, we would have never had to fire a shot and Saddum would have been history. Jeff
    It's too late for me, save yourself.
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  • beachmaster73beachmaster73 Member Posts: 3,011 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Guys, I hear what everyone is saying but somehow I don't think it was Saddam. He is a certified megalomaniac who loves only one thing...himself. He has no real interest in the religious aspects of Islam other than seeing himself as some grand leader of the Islamic world. Prior to the Gulf War he made overtures that he had chemical weapons and the ability to deliver them to the battlefield. At the political level he was reminded that we considered chemical weapons to be weapons of mass destruction and that were he to use them we would reply in kind. Of course our weapon of mass destruction is the nuc. He didn't use them then because he feared that we would live up to our promise. While he managed to remain in power after the Gulf War....remember he's very good at keeping Iran in check; we insured he would only be a bit player for the remainder of his tenure. I don't think now after his and his country's years of ostracization and nearly being able to reenter the world stage as a player that he would endanger his chance to play. I'd still bet on bin Laden....his remarks prior to this terrorist act run very similar to his previous activities. I know that we will eventually peel away enough layers of the onion to nail the guily ones whomever they are. Beach
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  • alledanalledan Member Posts: 19,541
    edited November -1
    Iran-Iraq-whoever, Nuke em all and let the wind sort them out!
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  • PhilPhil Member Posts: 47 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Exactly,alledan!We should convert all the major cities in all of those stinking barbaric "countries" into glassy craters.
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  • CameroonCameroon Member Posts: 702 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I think Saddam financed Bin Ladden. That way he can get his licks in but not be involved.
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  • IconoclastIconoclast Member Posts: 10,515 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    It doesn't matter *who* is in the background, we keep drilling until we know all the players and we take them *all* out. And while bin Laden looks like #1 on the hit parade, we should be going after him anyway for the embassy bombings and the Cole.
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  • boeboeboeboe Member Posts: 3,331
    edited November -1
    Just tell them in 24 hours there will be no more Bagdad or Kabul, they have that long to get out of town. Then level it.Then tell them if they don't turn over Saddam and Bin Ladden, we will hit the next larger towns in similar fashion.Work down the list of towns until large sheep herder's tents become targets if they don't comply.
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  • anderskandersk Member Posts: 3,627 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Boy, the hawks are out tonight!I think we'd better find out who dun it before we start hauling out the nuc stuff to blow away everyone we don't like.
    Ken
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  • ghotie_thumperghotie_thumper Member Posts: 1,561 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Yeah lets be nice and allow them to bring the lawyers into it, maybe Mr. Bin Laudin will get 5-10 for an accessory to the crime. He actually didn't lift a finger you know. Lets let Saddam send a few more of his mega oil bucks to terrorists and blow up a few more Marine Barracks. And then......I woke up. Don't you all remember a few years back when Libya was in the front page every day and their leader Mohamar Khadafi was fronting the bucks for all the terrorists? Last I heard from him, the U.S. dropped laser guided 2,000lb bombs on his house and on numerous sites where he was suspected to be, what happened? When was the last time that quivering camel jockey was heard from? He is still hiding in a bunker somewhere. These morons only understand one thing. Get Bin Laudin, cut his throat and watch him bleed.... Then stop being a bunch of pansies and lets get a real anti terrorist group together and pro-actively stop these freaks before they get so powerful. The constitution and the bill of rights only apply to US citizens. As far as I'm concerned these fudge packers have no rights. When you who condone the killing or the planning of killing innocent husbands, wives, sons and daughters wake up, LETS GO SMOKE SOME TERRORISTS!!!!!!!!
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  • Josey1Josey1 Member Posts: 9,598 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    How do you frame an animal who admits to bombing a US military base,sold rocket launchers to the Somalians,bombed the Embassies in Africa,bombed the USS COLE and in 1993 bombed the WTC's?This animal is either directly or indirectly involved in this mess and must pay with his life.Even if by some miniscule chance O.B.L. was not responsable he is guilty of all the other cold blooded murders and has declared war on the US.He deserves our full attention and then death.
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  • twinstwins Member Posts: 647 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Ghotie, AMEN, KILL WITH EXTREME PREJIDUCE! Send em to allah. Who care about their innocents, did they about ours. We have to stop being so nice and cuddley. If you don't play on their level, ya can't win. Don't sink to their level my *. Sink below it, let the world see what happens when you declare war on us. If they would have pulled this * on Israel, they would already have 10000 dead and counting.
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  • concealedG36concealedG36 Member Posts: 3,566 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I agree with the last two posts. It's like we're a really big guy who always gets bullied. But, because he's so big he is always afraid to retaliate for fear of really hurting anyone or getting in trouble. Well, I say that we have been picked on enough. The time has come. Its time to use the strength we have and unleash a fury the likes of which have NEVER been seen and that will NEVER be forgotten. Take that bully and shove a knife right through his throat. Then, cut off his head. If, by chance, his buddies or family get killed too - oh well.If we don't strike hard and fast, I fear this sort of thing will happen again and again...
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  • TEQUILATEQUILA Member Posts: 5 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I agree both should be dispensed with - they are convinced our country has to "teeth" left and for good reason. Our men died in Desert Storm without accomplishing the ultimate goal of eliminating the cause of the problem - I blame this on the government as they are afraid of who would replace him-can't believe the loss of our service personnel for basically just making Saddam "uncomfortable", actually not him, but his people. What a sad state of affairs we face at this time - our government has tried to take our guns, now our knives will be suspect, then what??? There is no end to this madness. My sincere sympathies to those among you who have lost loved ones - and I know there are probably many of you on this site.
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  • IconoclastIconoclast Member Posts: 10,515 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Andersk -Yep, us hawks are out in force all right & yep, we probably should skip the nukes, as beautiful and appealing as the image of artificial suns rising over Baghdad, Tripoli, Tehran & Kabul (just to start) is at the moment. Otherwise the deadline for restraint and moderation was closed Tuesday morning. Yasser Arafat can give all the blood he wants - and I personally will be glad to help him give a lot more - but the sight of his people and many more in other Islamic nations cheering in the streets defined the enemy for me once and for all. We return the same love and compassion these vermin showed our brothers. Ten, twenty, a hundred times over. And our politicians better lead, follow or get the hell out of the way or we will find some real leaders who will do just that, not the spineless pissant * whose concern about the opinions / sensibilities of savages in tin pot Third World shitholes brought us to this pass. You don't like that? Fine. It's America. Go write your Congressman.
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  • alledanalledan Member Posts: 19,541
    edited November -1
    There are those who keep saying that we don't want want any colateral damage. B.S.!No one is asking the American people!Right now most Americans could give a flying * about colateral Damage!Most people in this little burg want some blood and guts even down to the state highway patrolmen who live and work out of this town.Some liberals who i talk to say thet we shouldn't blame a whole race of people for the acts of a few. Again B.S.! The greater majority of them are shiite and sunni [sp] moslems and they all believe that the Americans are evil snakes and should be eliminated. The bottom line with these freaks is that they will never learn until we slap them down good and hard!DO NOT patronize their businesses! You can never know where your money is going and what terrorist groups you are funding!DO NOT patronize any business that employees these rats!KEEP your children away from theirs! You do not know what type of impressions that their kids will leave on yours.Basicly cut them off from this country and it's milk and honey and maybe the trash will go back where they belong!I heard this morning that some "reprisals" are taking place in New York against some ragheads-Oh well!
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  • He DogHe Dog Member Posts: 51,593 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hey Admin, last night a former director of the CIA was speculating on exactly your thesis and suggesting there may be something to the idea. You may be right.
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  • 5db5db Member Posts: 1,621 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    He Dog, maybe the CIA guy is a GB regular or maybe one and the same as "admin". Saddam or OBL? Who cares? The fact both have been involved in terrorism is enough to warrant their execution. Also, I fail to see why folks believe this was "so Sophisticated" you can get flight information from any computer. And as far as having four pilots, that's training and recruiting. (OBL has what 300 million $ to buy such folks). It was well planned and executed, but I fail to see the sophistication. I am proud that the terrorist in the PA plane were denied their objective by a few brave Americans.
    If you have one shot...Accu-Shot Website
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  • pushrodpushrod Member Posts: 3 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hey people you are worse than a bunch of county attorneys that want to convict someone for a crime and don't care who they convict just so someone is convicted. We better stand back and take a good look at what is going on. The fat cats in Washington obviously know how to pull your chains by keeping this in front of you 24/7. They report all of their speckulation and you people beleive it to be factual, Remember most of this info is comming from the gov't which has been known to lie and cheat it's own people. Remember once they burned down Waco and killed a bunch of people, and killed inocent people at ruby ridge, they halted all information about the incidents and it soon was put in the back of the publics minds. One senator stated on tv that the US has been violated, This is a true statement but that same senator is part of a political machine that violates it's own people everyday of the year. We the taxpayers of this country give the gov't 30 billion dollars a year to fund an intellagance operation that is suppose to warn against such attacks, Looks like that is another waste of taxpayer money also. Some of you are talking about nukeing all the suspected terrorist, Now that realy wouldn't be the smatest thing to do. If you stop and think about it if you unleashed that many nucular explosions the whole planet would be distroyed, Why distroy yourself in order to get revenge, That way of thinking is as bad as the people that realy did do this to us. It does not do any good to fly off the handle and start distroying everyone that you think might have done this because you will never know if you got the right one. Also don't beleive everything the gov't tells you.
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  • beachmaster73beachmaster73 Member Posts: 3,011 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    pushrod...there are federal monsters under your bed. Do you need batteries for your flashlight? Beach
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  • SP TigerSP Tiger Member Posts: 872 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    It does seem that Iraq has been a little quiet for the last couple of days. I do agree with Beach though, Saddam is a self-absorbed megalomaniac. I wouldn't doubt that the two had ties. Even if ObL is saying he has no responsibility in the attack, I'm sure the ones who carried it out were trained and/or influenced by him. That makes him just as guilty. Ol' Qaddafi(sic?)has sure been a good boy for a few years. He is the first one to come out and say "Not me! Not me! I condemn the attacks!" because he knows he will get his little fanny spanked again, though it would be worse this time.I am no conspiracy theorist, and I do take what the media tells me with a grain of salt, but if the gov't is stating that they are 90% sure Osama bin Laden is involved, then I'll take that. I am not proud of some of the things our gov't has done in the past, and even less proud of some of the elected officials, but it's OUR gov't that we have to stand behind. What's next, the conspiracy theorists say that our gov't carried out the attacks?
    Better to have and not need, than need and not have.
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  • opentopopentop Member Posts: 143 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I say it doesn't really matter who actually did it. Any group or nation that has ever even lent verbal support for any terrorist act perpetrated against the US, should now be a target for complete destruction.
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  • fourthhorsemanfourthhorseman Member Posts: 14 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    And it ought to be nuclear attack.We need to stop messing around. They (anti-American terrorists) have taken out 3 buildings this time not to mention the embassies in Africa and the barracks in Saudi or the USS Cole, so in my opinion, we owe them 3 or more cities burned to the ground. There's 3 of them right in a row that we could start with. Bahgdad, Tehran and Kabul. One B-2 with three B83 1-megaton gravity nuclear bombs. Bye, bye *, how's that for terror?
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  • IconoclastIconoclast Member Posts: 10,515 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Beach, thanks. That was the first time I laughed in the last 48 hours. Opentop, I agree 110% - and I bet a huge majority of the American people would say the same thing. You all *have* noticed, haven't you, that the media is *not* broadcasting the words of average person on the issue of a proper response. Wouldn't want to upset our good friends in the Middle East, would we? But no nukes, fourth. Much as the image gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling, that simply isn't an option except under even worse circumstances than these. We don't want that one out of the bottle. Pakistan has nukes, for example. And let us not forget that many of the former Soviet nukes, although nominally under the control of the Russian military, are physically in nation states of the CIS controlled by or with strong ties to militant Islamic groups. Not to mention our close friends in China and North Korea. Nuclear club ain't as exclusive as it once was. conventional weapons may not reduce these rogue states to a Stone Age society, but it can be made pre-industrial if need be. And should be, in some cases. But the key is to do it to all our enemies *now,* not just punish OBL or Afghanistan. We have to eradicate all the vermin. And you *are* telling this to Congress & President, right? They make the decisons here, not Peter Jennings or us GB inhabitants.
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  • fourthhorsemanfourthhorseman Member Posts: 14 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Okay, okay, but at least wing tip to wing tip B-52s and B-1s carpet bombing...
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  • MDSuppliesMDSupplies Member Posts: 8 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I just heard on the local news today that Clinton was informed of the exact location where Osama bin Laden was in hiding 2 years ago and would not authorize a strike against him. It kind of made me sick.
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  • bradf111bradf111 Member Posts: 74 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Admin. No fuses on Black Boxes! That is why they are so important to give possible clues to the who dunnit.
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  • NEEDCOLDNEEDCOLD Member Posts: 134 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hindsight is a SOB. Shoulda kept chasing Khadaffi and his ilk, and I still don't really understand why we stopped pushing foreward in Iraq. Could have made it a NATO state for the support of the free world.Maybe the 'sleeping giant' is awake and really pissed now.I know I am. Still, going to wait and see until I go back to the recruiter.Battlesight Zero: up 10/ left 4
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  • Patrick OdlePatrick Odle Member Posts: 951 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Both are capable. get them both remove the doubt, but for goodness don't go back to sleep and wait for the next to come from korea, china, palistine, syria ,packistan or any other that is building an arsenel with U.S. destruction as their prime motive. Let history teach us.
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  • turboturbo Member Posts: 820 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    From day one this had been reported that Iraq, possibly was involved.I for one am satisfied the Intellegence community is aware and knows more than is being made available to the news services.I commend the President and the the Chairman of Joint Chiefs of staff for not divulging any secret information pertaining to Iraqs involvement, It will make it sweeter when the worm turns on them. There is no sense in advertising future military plans, for the sake of giving the liberal news media in this country, amunition to write articles that will feed the peace freaks.Only thing is, I believe we ought go all the way and dethrone the dictator this time.
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  • Diesel DummyDiesel Dummy Member Posts: 193 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Those critters live in a brutal society. Responsibility or blame for that lack of civilization is not an issue. There is no justification for the attack on the civilian population of our country. The only thing they might comprehend is a brutal response.
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