Debate begins over Utah gun rules

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Debate begins over Utah gun rules By Bob Bernick Jr.Deseret News political editor The long, and sometimes emotional, debate over reworking or repealing dozens of state rules that "illegally" control the use of firearms started Tuesday. Several state agencies appeared before a legislative oversight committee after Attorney General Mark Shurtleff wrote an informal opinion a month ago finding state agency rules restricting gun possession violated state law. House Speaker Marty Stephens, R-Farr West, said it is not the committee's responsibility to decide if the rules are "right or wrong," rather whether the state agencies had the authority to write the rules in the first place. Clearly, Stephens and Rep. Dave Ure, R-Kamas, the co-chairman of the Administrative Rules Committee, questioned the agencies' authority to do so - as did Shurtleff. One agency may have dodged a bullet, so to speak. Shurtleff wrote a letter to Rod Betit, executive director of the State Health Department, saying it appears that hundreds of state licensed day-care centers in Utah are defined in state code as "schools," which can make certain rules defining gun use. However, Shurtleff added, day-care licensees must take into account the broad 2nd Amendment rights of legally-permitted concealed weapons owners. That appears to mean the health department can restrict loaded weapons in day-care centers but can't ban concealed weapons from the premises. After hearing several assistant attorneys general speak on behalf of the health department, Sen. Michael Waddoups, R-Taylorsville, said he wrote the state's concealed weapons law and he knows its intent. "The intent is that concealed carry permitholders can carry (their weapons) in any area that is not 'secure.' A school is not a 'secure' area" like a prison, courtroom, mental hospital or airport, Waddoups said. "Why don't you have an exemption in your (day-care) rule for concealed-carry permitholders?" asked Rep. John Swallow, R-Sandy. Health Department officials said they didn't include one because, in writing the rule, they were just listing firearms as another hazard to children's health, like having access to poison or other dangerous materials. The rule says no day-care operator will allow children access to loaded weapons. That's understandable, said Swallow. And department officials said the rule will likely be rewritten to specifically allow legally permitted concealed weapons owners to carryguns into licensed day-care centers. Division of Wildlife Resources officials tried to explain to legislators why they have dozens of rules that ban certain types of guns on certain hunts of animals. But lawmakers didn't want to debate that, saying they are only concerned about whether the division can control permitted concealed weapons on those hunts. Lawmakers will have higher education institutions testify in January to justify policies or rules that ban all guns including legally permitted concealed weapons on state college and university campuses. Ure said before the meeting that it appears legislators will take some action on the questionable rules, perhaps repealing some, perhaps including some in the law where guns are restricted by the Legislature. A month ago Shurtleff issued an informal opinion that said around two dozen rules adopted by various state agencies controlling gun use are illegal. Only the Legislature has the power to regulate guns in Utah, Shurtleff said, a view Stephens and other legislators echoed Tuesday morning. Shurtleff later issued a formal opinion that said the state personnel rule is illegal that prohibits state employees with concealed weapon permits from bringing their guns to work. Gov. Mike Leavitt and his personnel officials agreed and that rule will be rescinded Jan. 1, legislators were told Tuesday. In a gun-related issue, Shurtleff told the Deseret News Monday that rules set up by state Olympic officials that declare the Capitol "gun free" during the February Games are also illegal. The Legislature specifically amended gun control law several years ago to say official Olympic venues can be kept gun free during the Games - and metal detectors and other security will keep guns out of those venues, SLOC has decided. But lawmakers rejected a bill later that would have made the Capitol itself an Olympic venue. And so, Shurtleff said, state officials can't bar legally-permitted concealed weapons from the Capitol. The Legislature will recess during the two-week Games, but a number of Olympic-related and public events are scheduled in the Capitol at that time. State Olympic officials said they had no plans to ban guns from the Capitol except during visits by President Bush, who is expected to give a speech in the building the night before the Games open, and Vice President Dick Cheney, who may also attend the Games and visit the Capitol. http://www.deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,355011800,00.html