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Saxon quote: Wilson ordered the Army to crush a demonstration by WW I vets across from the White House. Douglas MacArthur commanded tanks driven through the protest, killing at least one and injuring others. Those vets may disagree that Bush has done worse.
It was Hoover. Nevertheless, it doesn't matter which president scewed up in the past, nor does it matter if Dubya is the worst president ever, the second worst, third, fourth etc...
All wars are not created equal, so your connection here is very weak.
Its because of the horrific nature of 9-11, i think, that makes it so hard to realize, that a bunch of yahoos got lucky. This is not to say do nothing, but it it is hardly the emergency that demands a permanant state of "war."
This is possibly the most short sighted, unrealistic viewpoint I've read on any forum. To believe that there are no bad people seeking to harm Americans in particular, and Westerners in general, is simply not facing reality. So OBL didn't personally punch you in the nose... so what threat is he? How childish and naive.Contrary to your ignorant statement...(I trust I can educate you here) My personal belief is that MOST of the rest of the world hates us...and would wipe us off the face of the earth if they could. However..we cannot eliminate the rest of the world.
Given that..unlike YOU..I, were I running affairs, would have destroyed THOSE RESPONSIBLE for the attack on 9/11.
quote:Good people stand on the wall to protect you, asking only for the tools to do it well, and you complain! Increasingly, it appears that the guns are being pointed INWARD..rather then at the enemy without.
Remember the Border..'Good People' ? You defend EVERY BORDER in the World..save ours.
The "tools" ?? I am willing to give you EVERY tool you need..save my Liberties and Rights..You and your masters don't get them without a fight.
quote:You are not worthy to complain unless you have a better way to protect my family, my neighbors, and my way of life. Worthy ? I don't serve a Fascist master...I will decide what is "Worthy"...Obviously, being a "Free American" is foreign to your mind set. Security being your most important thing in life...it is no wonder you hold my views in contempt.
quote:Unlike you, I do trust those leaders I helped elect, This you have absolutely correct...I believe that power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely...and History proves me correct.
quote:and on 9/11 was shouting "UNLEASH THE DOGS", "TAKE OFF THE GLOVES". What were you thinking that day? Exactly what I was thinking. I still am waiting for all you "Good People"..Kool-Aid drinking bush W horeshippers to actually demand from bush that he return to pursuing those responsible for 9/11. Care to Join me in that demand ?
Highball quote: Given that..unlike YOU..I, were I running affairs, would have destroyed THOSE RESPONSIBLE for the attack on 9/11. Yes. OSAMA HAS GOT AWAY WITH IT! There should have been more accountability with Pakastan, and we shoud have been playing hardball and done what ever it took...to make the ones responsible pay. It should have been done by now. But it would have been politically difficult to invade Iraq if that happened....but thats something else.
I don't trust the government to begin with, and after they have bungled everything so bad: I would not trust them more than a fly-by-night-pimp.
quote:Originally posted by hughbetcha
quote:Originally posted by pickenup
Unlike previous violations to the constitution and bill of rights, which were TEMPORARY.
The UN-patriot act is PERMANENT.
To CONTINUALLY be used AGAINST the citizens in whatever way FUTURE leaders see fit.
BIG difference, in my opinion.
BS! Nothing that can be voted on is permanent. If the patriot Act was permanent, why did they just vote to renew it? Why can't congress vote to suspend it anytime they want? Even amendments to the constitution can be overturned.
Well excuuuuse me for my terminology. The only thing permanent is DEATH. No wait, they have brought people back to life, after being declared dead.
Of course it is possible to change laws. Care to put a wager on when our leaders (either existing, or future ones) will relinquish any power or control made possible by the UN-patriot act?
As for voting to renew the UN-patriot act. They were voting on ONLY 16 controversial PROVISIONS that were set to expire. Leaving OVER 1000 listed SECTIONS that are "considered" to be permanent, in place.
The provisions were renewed by the way, with the condition that three provisions of the renewed act would be reviewed in four years; the other provisions being permanent. Oops, there is that word again. Sorry, just using "White House" terminology. I will let YOU tell THEM they are full of BS.
quote:Originally posted by Highball
quote:ripley16
Posted - 05/12/2006 : 2:26:31 PM
This is possibly the most short sighted, unrealistic viewpoint I've read on any forum. To believe that there are no bad people seeking to harm Americans in particular, and Westerners in general, is simply not facing reality. So OBL didn't personally punch you in the nose... so what threat is he? How childish and naive.Contrary to your ignorant statement...(I trust I can educate you here) My personal belief is that MOST of the rest of the world hates us...and would wipe us off the face of the earth if they could. However..we cannot eliminate the rest of the world.
Given that..unlike YOU..I, were I running affairs, would have destroyed THOSE RESPONSIBLE for the attack on 9/11.
quote:Good people stand on the wall to protect you, asking only for the tools to do it well, and you complain! Increasingly, it appears that the guns are being pointed INWARD..rather then at the enemy without.
Remember the Border..'Good People' ? You defend EVERY BORDER in the World..save ours.
The "tools" ?? I am willing to give you EVERY tool you need..save my Liberties and Rights..You and your masters don't get them without a fight.
quote:You are not worthy to complain unless you have a better way to protect my family, my neighbors, and my way of life. Worthy ? I don't serve a Fascist master...I will decide what is "Worthy"...Obviously, being a "Free American" is foreign to your mind set. Security being your most important thing in life...it is no wonder you hold my views in contempt.
quote:Unlike you, I do trust those leaders I helped elect, This you have absolutely correct...I believe that power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely...and History proves me correct.
quote:and on 9/11 was shouting "UNLEASH THE DOGS", "TAKE OFF THE GLOVES". What were you thinking that day? Exactly what I was thinking. I still am waiting for all you "Good People"..Kool-Aid drinking bush W horeshippers to actually demand from bush that he return to pursuing those responsible for 9/11. Care to Join me in that demand ?
At least we agree on one thing. I most certainly do hold your views in contempt, but only as an adult would view a child's ignorant point of reference. One day you will grow up.
I think that we can all agree that America faces grave challenges in the future and we will have to be vigilant to safeguard our civil liberities as we contend with those who would do us harm.
....................................................................................................
Too old to live...too young to die...
Comments
It was Hoover. Nevertheless, it doesn't matter which president scewed up in the past, nor does it matter if Dubya is the worst president ever, the second worst, third, fourth etc...
All wars are not created equal, so your connection here is very weak.
Its because of the horrific nature of 9-11, i think, that makes it so hard to realize, that a bunch of yahoos got lucky. This is not to say do nothing, but it it is hardly the emergency that demands a permanant state of "war."
Posted - 05/12/2006 : 2:26:31 PM
This is possibly the most short sighted, unrealistic viewpoint I've read on any forum. To believe that there are no bad people seeking to harm Americans in particular, and Westerners in general, is simply not facing reality. So OBL didn't personally punch you in the nose... so what threat is he? How childish and naive.Contrary to your ignorant statement...(I trust I can educate you here) My personal belief is that MOST of the rest of the world hates us...and would wipe us off the face of the earth if they could. However..we cannot eliminate the rest of the world.
Given that..unlike YOU..I, were I running affairs, would have destroyed THOSE RESPONSIBLE for the attack on 9/11.
quote:Good people stand on the wall to protect you, asking only for the tools to do it well, and you complain! Increasingly, it appears that the guns are being pointed INWARD..rather then at the enemy without.
Remember the Border..'Good People' ? You defend EVERY BORDER in the World..save ours.
The "tools" ?? I am willing to give you EVERY tool you need..save my Liberties and Rights..You and your masters don't get them without a fight.
quote:You are not worthy to complain unless you have a better way to protect my family, my neighbors, and my way of life. Worthy ? I don't serve a Fascist master...I will decide what is "Worthy"...Obviously, being a "Free American" is foreign to your mind set. Security being your most important thing in life...it is no wonder you hold my views in contempt.
quote:Unlike you, I do trust those leaders I helped elect, This you have absolutely correct...I believe that power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely...and History proves me correct.
quote:and on 9/11 was shouting "UNLEASH THE DOGS", "TAKE OFF THE GLOVES". What were you thinking that day? Exactly what I was thinking. I still am waiting for all you "Good People"..Kool-Aid drinking bush W horeshippers to actually demand from bush that he return to pursuing those responsible for 9/11. Care to Join me in that demand ?
I don't trust the government to begin with, and after they have bungled everything so bad: I would not trust them more than a fly-by-night-pimp.
quote:Originally posted by pickenup
Unlike previous violations to the constitution and bill of rights, which were TEMPORARY.
The UN-patriot act is PERMANENT.
To CONTINUALLY be used AGAINST the citizens in whatever way FUTURE leaders see fit.
BIG difference, in my opinion.
BS! Nothing that can be voted on is permanent. If the patriot Act was permanent, why did they just vote to renew it? Why can't congress vote to suspend it anytime they want? Even amendments to the constitution can be overturned.
Well excuuuuse me for my terminology. The only thing permanent is DEATH. No wait, they have brought people back to life, after being declared dead.
Of course it is possible to change laws. Care to put a wager on when our leaders (either existing, or future ones) will relinquish any power or control made possible by the UN-patriot act?
As for voting to renew the UN-patriot act. They were voting on ONLY 16 controversial PROVISIONS that were set to expire. Leaving OVER 1000 listed SECTIONS that are "considered" to be permanent, in place.
The provisions were renewed by the way, with the condition that three provisions of the renewed act would be reviewed in four years; the other provisions being permanent. Oops, there is that word again. Sorry, just using "White House" terminology. I will let YOU tell THEM they are full of BS.
quote:ripley16
Posted - 05/12/2006 : 2:26:31 PM
This is possibly the most short sighted, unrealistic viewpoint I've read on any forum. To believe that there are no bad people seeking to harm Americans in particular, and Westerners in general, is simply not facing reality. So OBL didn't personally punch you in the nose... so what threat is he? How childish and naive.Contrary to your ignorant statement...(I trust I can educate you here) My personal belief is that MOST of the rest of the world hates us...and would wipe us off the face of the earth if they could. However..we cannot eliminate the rest of the world.
Given that..unlike YOU..I, were I running affairs, would have destroyed THOSE RESPONSIBLE for the attack on 9/11.
quote:Good people stand on the wall to protect you, asking only for the tools to do it well, and you complain! Increasingly, it appears that the guns are being pointed INWARD..rather then at the enemy without.
Remember the Border..'Good People' ? You defend EVERY BORDER in the World..save ours.
The "tools" ?? I am willing to give you EVERY tool you need..save my Liberties and Rights..You and your masters don't get them without a fight.
quote:You are not worthy to complain unless you have a better way to protect my family, my neighbors, and my way of life. Worthy ? I don't serve a Fascist master...I will decide what is "Worthy"...Obviously, being a "Free American" is foreign to your mind set. Security being your most important thing in life...it is no wonder you hold my views in contempt.
quote:Unlike you, I do trust those leaders I helped elect, This you have absolutely correct...I believe that power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely...and History proves me correct.
quote:and on 9/11 was shouting "UNLEASH THE DOGS", "TAKE OFF THE GLOVES". What were you thinking that day? Exactly what I was thinking. I still am waiting for all you "Good People"..Kool-Aid drinking bush W horeshippers to actually demand from bush that he return to pursuing those responsible for 9/11. Care to Join me in that demand ?
At least we agree on one thing. I most certainly do hold your views in contempt, but only as an adult would view a child's ignorant point of reference. One day you will grow up.
Too old to live...too young to die...