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Now that the truth is out about Lumber Liquidators
LesWVa
Member Posts: 10,490 ✭✭
Wonder how many people will be ripping out their LL flooring? And will LL be forced to pay for it?
Told people for years on a home repair/remodel site that only a fool would install flooring from LL. Funny now watching the posters that gave LL high praises back peddling.. And the ones posting how happy they were now turning on the "experts" that talked them into install the garbage.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/lumber-liquidators-linked-to-health-and-safety-violations/
I lost a few jobs over the years for refusing to instal flooring from LL for people. Now I wonder how many will be calling for an estimate to remove it??
Told people for years on a home repair/remodel site that only a fool would install flooring from LL. Funny now watching the posters that gave LL high praises back peddling.. And the ones posting how happy they were now turning on the "experts" that talked them into install the garbage.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/lumber-liquidators-linked-to-health-and-safety-violations/
I lost a few jobs over the years for refusing to instal flooring from LL for people. Now I wonder how many will be calling for an estimate to remove it??
Comments
but the main thing is that China is try to kill us little by little[:(!]
they did it to the children toys with lead paint ,the sheetrock fiasco 10-15 years ago who knows what else they are importing with bad type of poisonous crap that we are subjected to buying.
there are millions of square footage of flooring laid down in the US with formaldahyde seeping out into our body, think of all the children crawling on those floors
no wonder the kids are /have all kinds of disorders
Next they will say lead in Chinese toothpaste is bad [8D]
"Fools learn from their own mistakes. I learn from the mistakes of others"
Otto von Bismarck
People that save a few dollars to put Chinese crap in the homes, particularly after the constant reporting of lead on children's toys, arsenic in dog chews, etc. deserve what they get.
While I cannot imagine Lumber Liquidators not knowing or at a minimum being willfully ignorant of the situation, they sold Made In U.S.A. material side by side with the other, and their customers had the choice.
How long does it outgas? Is it a matter of months, years, or decades?
10 times the California state limit probably means you can live in a house completely manufactured from the stuff that is renewed weekly and there is a 1 in 1,000 chance you may have a problem.
Obviously if they choose to sell in California, they need to meet the standard as a condition of doing business. How much of this is over-regulation?
I doubt I would remove the stuff if I had installed it, but I would not have bought Chinese crap when American crap was available anyway.
Brad Steele
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
[br... think of all the children crawling on those floors
no wonder the kids are /have all kinds of disorders
That is what has concerned me for years about any type of Chinese flooring. You take a kid that grew up crawling around on the stuff since birth. Then you look at the number of kids aged ten or less that are fighting cancers or other illness now days makes you wonder.
All the flooring I put down in my last home was from LL. It wasn't laminate though, and I'd never put that crap down, no matter where it was from. Their prices on hardwood oak were unbeatable, and there's no chemicals in it, so far as I know. It's just dried and cut oak.
LL will tell you the same thing
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
All the flooring I put down in my last home was from LL. It wasn't laminate though, and I'd never put that crap down, no matter where it was from. Their prices on hardwood oak were unbeatable, and there's no chemicals in it, so far as I know. It's just dried and cut oak.
LL will tell you the same thing
you seem to know different. What info do you have?
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
[:o)][xx(][:o)][xx(]
LL is claiming 60 mins's test is NOT to standards used by everyone else.
I guess someone knew the truth way back in March when its stock started tanking went from 110 down into the 50's and today 38 so insider trading would also be my guess.
I think it tanked in March due to news coming out about the possibility of criminal charges LL could face from buying illegal lumber from Russia.
Another bogus 60 minute feature,,my opinion,,and I want change it-
I went there once but didn't buy anything,does that count??????
Only if you didn't sniff or take a piece home and smoke it.
And everyone is so quick to believe "60 mins"????
[:o)][xx(][:o)][xx(]
LL is claiming 60 mins's test is NOT to standards used by everyone else.
If 60 minutes states what you want to hear you believe it.
Why do you think Limbaugh and Hannity have any following at all?
Brad Steele
[;)][:D]
quote:Originally posted by select-fire
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
All the flooring I put down in my last home was from LL. It wasn't laminate though, and I'd never put that crap down, no matter where it was from. Their prices on hardwood oak were unbeatable, and there's no chemicals in it, so far as I know. It's just dried and cut oak.
LL will tell you the same thing
you seem to know different. What info do you have?
Chinese...nuff said
i saw that last night [:(!] i don't think that lumber liquidators are at fault(they might of had knowledge?)if they knew about it then they need to be held accountable.
but the main thing is that China is try to kill us little by little[:(!]
they did it to the children toys with lead paint ,the sheetrock fiasco 10-15 years ago who knows what else they are importing with bad type of poisonous crap that we are subjected to buying.
there are millions of square footage of flooring laid down in the US with formaldahyde seeping out into our body, think of all the children crawling on those floors
no wonder the kids are /have all kinds of disorders
You can 100% sleep very well at night KNOWING for a 100% fact they knew it was bad stuff the day it was made. The Lumber Liquidators Managing corporate level people knew the glue had excess bad stuff in it, they had to specify it. The factory making the flooring said they could make it CARB2 compliant but IT WAS MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE.
LL was on a myopic mission to drive stock prices up. To do that they had to increase profits. To do that they had to get lower cost to beat the averages. To do that, they had to lie. QED.
Oh, & I don't believe a word of what 60 minutes said. I'd bet dollars to donuts that the producer or someone else in the know shorted the LL stock.....
is bad because it exceeds Kommiefornia's standard for formaldehyde.
OK.
Don't forget to put fresh batteries in your Radon detector.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formaldehyde
Processes in the upper atmosphere contribute up to 90%
of the total formaldehyde in the environment.
Formaldehyde is an intermediate in the oxidation (or combustion)
of methane as well as of other carbon compounds,
e.g. in forest fires, automobile exhaust, and tobacco smoke.
Formaldehyde does not accumulate in the environment,
because it is broken down within a few hours
by sunlight or by bacteria present in soil or water.
Humans metabolize formaldehyde quickly,
so it does not accumulate, and is converted to formic acid in the body.
We purchased our flooring (carbonized bamboo--tongue & groove) from LL a few years ago. Never a problem.
Bamboo flooring is very close to the best choice. I'd say the best choice but there might be a better one. 10 years ago almost no one in the U.S. thought about bamboo / Guadua for much of anything.
Bamboo (Called Guadua in many countries, Colombia/South America) is HARDER THAN ROCK MAPLE it can be CONSIDERABABLY harder depending on the mfg. method used.
My neighbors floor is Bamboo and it is beautiful but probably not as nice looking as yours. His was smaller areas and lighter in color. I like the dark color.
General info: http://www.guaduabamboo.com/
Check out this home in Costa Rica built with Guadua. Beautiful.
http://inhabitat.com/casa-atrevida-is-a-stunning-earthquake-and-flood-resistant-home-in-costa-rica/luz-de-piedra-arquitectos-local-wood-casa-atrevida-2/?extend=1
Built my chicken coops out of guadua and Brazilian Walnut (chanu).
So, there's no global climate change, but LL wood from China
is bad because it exceeds Kommiefornia's standard for formaldehyde.
OK.
Don't forget to put fresh batteries in your Radon detector.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formaldehyde
Processes in the upper atmosphere contribute up to 90%
of the total formaldehyde in the environment.
Formaldehyde is an intermediate in the oxidation (or combustion)
of methane as well as of other carbon compounds,
e.g. in forest fires, automobile exhaust, and tobacco smoke.
Formaldehyde does not accumulate in the environment,
because it is broken down within a few hours
by sunlight or by bacteria present in soil or water.
Humans metabolize formaldehyde quickly,
so it does not accumulate, and is converted to formic acid in the body.
+1000
I have built a lot of schools in the middle Tenn. area, and most had large gyms with hardwood floors.
ALWAYS the flooring sub contractor had to let the opened pallets of wood
"acclimate" for at least one day before installing it.
Most said it was for temperature stability.
One told me the real story... Any wood products packaged in plastic wrappers for shipping/sales had some amount of toxins to prevent mold/bugs. If his men just opened the big pallets of wood and started to lay them, the workers would be sick at the end of the day.
[xx(]
[}:)]barto[}:)]
The problem is the laminate crap. (not just theirs anyones) What I bought from them is American grown and machined red oak.
Oh, & I don't believe a word of what 60 minutes said. I'd bet dollars to donuts that the producer or someone else in the know shorted the LL stock.....
quote:Originally posted by bigcitybill
So, there's no global climate change, but LL wood from China
is bad because it exceeds Kommiefornia's standard for formaldehyde.
OK.
Don't forget to put fresh batteries in your Radon detector.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formaldehyde
Processes in the upper atmosphere contribute up to 90%
of the total formaldehyde in the environment.
Formaldehyde is an intermediate in the oxidation (or combustion)
of methane as well as of other carbon compounds,
e.g. in forest fires, automobile exhaust, and tobacco smoke.
Formaldehyde does not accumulate in the environment,
because it is broken down within a few hours
by sunlight or by bacteria present in soil or water.
Humans metabolize formaldehyde quickly,
so it does not accumulate, and is converted to formic acid in the body.
+1000
I have built a lot of schools in the middle Tenn. area, and most had large gyms with hardwood floors.
ALWAYS the flooring sub contractor had to let the opened pallets of wood
"acclimate" for at least one day before installing it.
Most said it was for temperature stability.
One told me the real story... Any wood products packaged in plastic wrappers for shipping/sales had some amount of toxins to prevent mold/bugs. If his men just opened the big pallets of wood and started to lay them, the workers would be sick at the end of the day.
[xx(]
Correct acclimation is usually for longer than just one day, at least up here, and it is more to allow the wood to come to a moisture equilibrium with the structure it's being installed in. Too dry and it'll expand, too wet and it'll shrink.
All that said, I, like LesWVa, have bowed out of a few jobs because the folks wanted to use LL flooring. Cheap, twisty, nasty crap. I put in exactly one LL floor and swore I'd never do another. We probably had close to 30% unusable boards due to defect.
I'm stunned that anybody could put "truth" and "CBS/60Minutes" in the same dictionary, much less the same sentence.
And also with the thought that if you buy cheap you get cheap. That goes for both materials and labor.
All the flooring I put down in my last home was from LL. It wasn't laminate though, and I'd never put that crap down, no matter where it was from. Their prices on hardwood oak were unbeatable, and there's no chemicals in it, so far as I know. It's just dried and cut oak.
February 25, 2015 02:02 PM Eastern Standard Time
WASHINGTON--(BUSINESS WIRE)--In SEC filings released this morning, Lumber Liquidators revealed that the Department of Justice is contemplating criminal charges under the Lacey Act for importing illegally harvested wood. Lumber Liquidators' stock value dropped by nearly 20 percent immediately following the news.
Lumber Liquidators has been under federal investigation since September 2013, when the Environmental Investigation Agency (EIA) published its report "Liquidating the Forests", which documented that Lumber Liquidators imported large quantities of wood illegally sourced in the Russian Far East.
In response to today's announcement, Alexander von Bismarck, Executive Director of EIA, said, "We were in Russia and China, and saw the devastation caused by illegal logging. Lumber Liquidators was getting illegal wood from Russia, lots of it, and should be held accountable."
Today's news follows a recent announcement that a key Russian supplier of high value timber to Lumber Liquidators had been convicted of organized crime by a Russian court. Senior executives of the Russian timber company Beryozoviy, which supplied high value timber to Lumber Liquidators, were found guilty in December 2014 of fifteen counts of illegal logging occurring between 2010-2012 and of participation in a criminal network.
As detailed in EIA's report, Beryozoviy was a key supplier of valuable timber to a Chinese flooring manufacturer called Suifenhe Xingjia Group (Xingjia), the primary manufacturer of U.S. flooring retailer Lumber Liquidators' Virginia Millworks line of solid oak and birch hand-scraped flooring. Since the Lacey Act became law, Lumber Liquidators has imported millions of square feet of illegally sourced hardwood flooring from Xingjia.
Posing as timber buyers, EIA investigators went undercover to expose the illegal wood trade in the Russian Far East and found that a company called Xingjia freely admitted to illegal logging and paying bribes and that its single biggest trading partner was Lumber Liquidators. EIA investigators recorded Xingjia officials saying that Lumber Liquidators knew where the wood came from. EIA's report also relied on publically available trade data, copies of court cases from Russian authorities, scientific analyses, and shipment records.
This will work out just like the Chinese Drywall problem a few years ago..[:D][:D]
What ever happened with that? I remember a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth but did anything ever actually happen?
And for those moaning about the quality of the LL product, they sell stuff in grades from "cabin" up to "clear". The cabin grade stuff is mostly knotty crap. The stuff I have bought from them over the years has had very high yield.
quote:Originally posted by select-fire
This will work out just like the Chinese Drywall problem a few years ago..[:D][:D]
What ever happened with that? I remember a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth but did anything ever actually happen?
And for those moaning about the quality of the LL product, they sell stuff in grades from "cabin" up to "clear". The cabin grade stuff is mostly knotty crap. The stuff I have bought from them over the years has had very high yield.
I was very specific when our home was built..No chinese drywall.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_drywall
Weyerhaeuser made and sold the siding on my house, and 20 million other houses in the country. It was pretty much shredded pressed cardboard, and it wasn't sealed properly.
Some whistle blower exposed the minutes from a board meeting, where they discussed knowing about the problem from day one, but would continue to make it just like it was. "Just in case" somebody found out about it, they set aside millions in an account to settle any claims.
When the worst of it started warping and falling off houses, the class action lawsuit was filed in Alabama, and the board meeting minutes were introduced as evidence. They cried to the judge, (or paid him off) that replacement costs would bankrupt them. The judge ordered "Repair" costs, with depreciation on the reimbursement, and ending 25yrs after it was first made.
The suit and reimbursement ended in 1999 (house was 10yrs then) when I finally found out about it. My "repair cost" check was $3600, that didn't even cover my $3800 cost "trying" to seal and paint it.
Repairing it was a joke, there was no way to repair it. I couldn't even put new siding over it. It would expand and contract with humidity, and over night temperature changes, a full inch! It pulled nails and wood screws out of the wall studs. It caused water damage around two windows that cost another $1200 to repair.
I had to have the house completely stripped, sheathed, and new insulated vinyl siding installed.
Don't put any faith in "US Made" either.
Weyerhaeuser made and sold the siding on my house, and 20 million other houses in the country. It was pretty much shredded pressed cardboard, and it wasn't sealed properly.
Some whistle blower exposed the minutes from a board meeting, where they discussed knowing about the problem from day one, but would continue to make it just like it was. "Just in case" somebody found out about it, they set aside millions in an account to settle any claims.
When the worst of it started warping and falling off houses, the class action lawsuit was filed in Alabama, and the board meeting minutes were introduced as evidence. They cried to the judge, (or paid him off) that replacement costs would bankrupt them. The judge ordered "Repair" costs, with depreciation on the reimbursement, and ending 25yrs after it was first made.
The suit and reimbursement ended in 1999 (house was 10yrs then) when I finally found out about it. My "repair cost" check was $3600, that didn't even cover my $3800 cost "trying" to seal and paint it.
Repairing it was a joke, there was no way to repair it. I couldn't even put new siding over it. It would expand and contract with humidity, and over night temperature changes, a full inch! It pulled nails and wood screws out of the wall studs. It caused water damage around two windows that cost another $1200 to repair.
I had to have the house completely stripped, sheathed, and new insulated vinyl siding installed.
I got burned on that junk too. Replaced everything on the exterior of that house with hardiboard. siding, soffit, fascia, cornerboards and the window trim was extruded poly. The class action had expired about 6 months before I found out I had a problem...
Don't put any faith in "US Made" either.
Weyerhaeuser made and sold the siding on my house, and 20 million other houses in the country. It was pretty much shredded pressed cardboard, and it wasn't sealed properly.
Some whistle blower exposed the minutes from a board meeting, where they discussed knowing about the problem from day one, but would continue to make it just like it was. "Just in case" somebody found out about it, they set aside millions in an account to settle any claims.
When the worst of it started warping and falling off houses, the class action lawsuit was filed in Alabama, and the board meeting minutes were introduced as evidence. They cried to the judge, (or paid him off) that replacement costs would bankrupt them. The judge ordered "Repair" costs, with depreciation on the reimbursement, and ending 25yrs after it was first made.
The suit and reimbursement ended in 1999 (house was 10yrs then) when I finally found out about it. My "repair cost" check was $3600, that didn't even cover my $3800 cost "trying" to seal and paint it.
Repairing it was a joke, there was no way to repair it. I couldn't even put new siding over it. It would expand and contract with humidity, and over night temperature changes, a full inch! It pulled nails and wood screws out of the wall studs. It caused water damage around two windows that cost another $1200 to repair.
I had to have the house completely stripped, sheathed, and new insulated vinyl siding installed.
We had it, and our builder contacted us a couple of years after the construction, advising us of the problem. He came out and sealed it up before significant damage had occurred, and we lived there for the next 8 years with no issues. Drove by the place a couple of years ago, (20+ years after installation) and the original siding is still in place.
The house is in a reasonably dry climate, not a desert by any stretch. Properly sealed and maintained the stuff held up. I would imagine there would be a greater problem in areas of constant high humidity.
Brad Steele
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
All the flooring I put down in my last home was from LL. It wasn't laminate though, and I'd never put that crap down, no matter where it was from. Their prices on hardwood oak were unbeatable, and there's no chemicals in it, so far as I know. It's just dried and cut oak.
February 25, 2015 02:02 PM Eastern Standard Time
WASHINGTON--(BUSINESS WIRE)--In SEC filings released this morning, Lumber Liquidators revealed that the Department of Justice is contemplating criminal charges under the Lacey Act for importing illegally harvested wood. Lumber Liquidators' stock value dropped by nearly 20 percent immediately following the news.
Lumber Liquidators has been under federal investigation since September 2013, when the Environmental Investigation Agency (EIA) published its report "Liquidating the Forests", which documented that Lumber Liquidators imported large quantities of wood illegally sourced in the Russian Far East.
In response to today's announcement, Alexander von Bismarck, Executive Director of EIA, said, "We were in Russia and China, and saw the devastation caused by illegal logging. Lumber Liquidators was getting illegal wood from Russia, lots of it, and should be held accountable."
Today's news follows a recent announcement that a key Russian supplier of high value timber to Lumber Liquidators had been convicted of organized crime by a Russian court. Senior executives of the Russian timber company Beryozoviy, which supplied high value timber to Lumber Liquidators, were found guilty in December 2014 of fifteen counts of illegal logging occurring between 2010-2012 and of participation in a criminal network.
As detailed in EIA's report, Beryozoviy was a key supplier of valuable timber to a Chinese flooring manufacturer called Suifenhe Xingjia Group (Xingjia), the primary manufacturer of U.S. flooring retailer Lumber Liquidators' Virginia Millworks line of solid oak and birch hand-scraped flooring. Since the Lacey Act became law, Lumber Liquidators has imported millions of square feet of illegally sourced hardwood flooring from Xingjia.
Posing as timber buyers, EIA investigators went undercover to expose the illegal wood trade in the Russian Far East and found that a company called Xingjia freely admitted to illegal logging and paying bribes and that its single biggest trading partner was Lumber Liquidators. EIA investigators recorded Xingjia officials saying that Lumber Liquidators knew where the wood came from. EIA's report also relied on publically available trade data, copies of court cases from Russian authorities, scientific analyses, and shipment records.
Info on chemicals seems to have been omitted.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
quote:Originally posted by TRAP55
Don't put any faith in "US Made" either.
Weyerhaeuser made and sold the siding on my house, and 20 million other houses in the country. It was pretty much shredded pressed cardboard, and it wasn't sealed properly.
Some whistle blower exposed the minutes from a board meeting, where they discussed knowing about the problem from day one, but would continue to make it just like it was. "Just in case" somebody found out about it, they set aside millions in an account to settle any claims.
When the worst of it started warping and falling off houses, the class action lawsuit was filed in Alabama, and the board meeting minutes were introduced as evidence. They cried to the judge, (or paid him off) that replacement costs would bankrupt them. The judge ordered "Repair" costs, with depreciation on the reimbursement, and ending 25yrs after it was first made.
The suit and reimbursement ended in 1999 (house was 10yrs then) when I finally found out about it. My "repair cost" check was $3600, that didn't even cover my $3800 cost "trying" to seal and paint it.
Repairing it was a joke, there was no way to repair it. I couldn't even put new siding over it. It would expand and contract with humidity, and over night temperature changes, a full inch! It pulled nails and wood screws out of the wall studs. It caused water damage around two windows that cost another $1200 to repair.
I had to have the house completely stripped, sheathed, and new insulated vinyl siding installed.
We had it, and our builder contacted us a couple of years after the construction, advising us of the problem. He came out and sealed it up before significant damage had occurred, and we lived there for the next 8 years with no issues. Drove by the place a couple of years ago, (20+ years after installation) and the original siding is still in place.
The house is in a reasonably dry climate, not a desert by any stretch. Properly sealed and maintained the stuff held up. I would imagine there would be a greater problem in areas of constant high humidity.
Don, you got lucky with your builder.
The one that built my house, and this subdivision, is currently hiding out in the Bahamas. It was probably a good thing I had to strip the siding off. Several places had no insulation, and there was only three sheets of plywood sheathing on this two story house.
My neighbor caught him just before he bailed out of here, after discovering there was no attic insulation in his house at all!
Several of us have discussed taking up a collection, for one of us to take a short vacation to the Bahamas, with a baseball bat in the luggage.[}:)]
quote:I got burned on that junk too. Replaced everything on the exterior of that house with hardiboard. siding, soffit, fascia, cornerboards and the window trim was extruded poly. The class action had expired about 6 months before I found out I had a problem...
CaptFun, the lady down the street that told me about the lawsuit, had the tongue and groove vertical hardboard siding that Weyerhaeuser sold at the same time. It was so warped, the house looked like it had been in a flood. Some spots were so bad, you could stick your hand inside the wall between the boards! Her "repair cost" check was only $3200. Like you, there were millions that got stung with this crap, because they found out about it too late. Blatant fraud, and no one did any time.[V]